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The dumb face that launched 1000 SportsHoopla avatars: Phils at the Grill to face Nate Lowe's face 6/21-22

BULLPEN FAILURE

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Well both those trades involved losing high profile prospects but Hamels had more control

The common denominator was we were mediation contention needing finishing pieces
We are not at that point so it is a bit premature to make a move like that when we really have alot of spots up in the air

Just hard to follow the conversation.

both trades were made for the same reason/goal in mind.
 

saddles

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Well that is what I am wondering. Maybe a slight upgrade over Reks
Maybe we can flip him or keep if we let go of other OFs.
I guess we get a look see
I think he provides us a backup OF when we start playing the youngsters in the OF and find someplace else for the veterans.
 

DTC

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Just hard to follow the conversation.

both trades were made for the same reason/goal in mind.

And at the end of the day we didn’t really lose anyone that went on to be great mlb players for an extended time in either trade.
 

DT LUNA

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Giants to acquire Willie Calhoun, for Steven Duggar. Sounds like a guy to release the first time a roster spot is needed.
Can't imagine what Willie could bring us back.
 

saddles

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Just hard to follow the conversation.

both trades were made for the same reason/goal in mind.
I disagree. Lee was needed as a finishing piece on a team poised to go deep into the playoffs if he was added. We were not close to being in that position when we acquired Hamels.

I also liked Lee as a pitcher more than I did Hamels, especially considering how poorly Hamels had performed against the American League prior to coming here.
 

BULLPEN FAILURE

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I disagree. Lee was needed as a finishing piece on a team poised to go deep into the playoffs if he was added. We were not close to being in that position when we acquired Hamels.

Lee was brought in for a deep run that season. Hamels was brought in for a deep run in the following season. Goal was absolutely the same, Hamels was just brought in earlier in the timeline.
 

Kelleyman

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I think he provides us a backup OF when we start playing the youngsters in the OF and find someplace else for the veterans.
I have a sneaking suspicion Kole is not getting moved and we already are playing Smith and Leody. We have Miller and Adolis and him. Where is the room?
 

saddles

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And at the end of the day we didn’t really lose anyone that went on to be great mlb players for an extended time in either trade.
I judged the trades by the value those guys, both the ones coming and the ones going, had at the time. Hindsight was impossible to use at the time.
 
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saddles

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Lee was brought in for a deep run that season. Hamels was brought in for a deep run in the following season. Goal was absolutely the same, Hamels was just brought in earlier in the timeline.
They did not have the team to make a deep run with Hamels. That 2010 team was vastly superior.
 

saddles

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I have a sneaking suspicion Kole is not getting moved and we already are playing Smith and Leody. We have Miller and Adolis and him. Where is the room?
If your suspicion is correct then acquiring Duggar and releasing Patton is senseless. I hope your suspicion is wrong.
 

Kelleyman

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I disagree. Lee was needed as a finishing piece on a team poised to go deep into the playoffs if he was added. We were not close to being in that position when we acquired Hamels.

I also liked Lee as a pitcher more than I did Hamels, especially considering how poorly Hamels had performed against the American League prior to coming here.
@Ephland Don’t listen to @saddles re Hamels. We still had some window left. Witnessed a great last game of the year close out shut out to get us in the playoffs. Got Deikman as well
Lol
 

saddles

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they had the best record in the AL in 2016.
I am not talking about record, I am talking about talent. The 2010 team was much better and poised to go deeper.
 

Kelleyman

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If your suspicion is correct then acquiring Duggar and releasing Patton is senseless. I hope your suspicion is wrong.
Unless we flip him. But I think they want a locker room guy they get on Kole. I don’t care too much as long as Josh Smith plays and Duran too

Tough going for a guy like Patton
 

saddles

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Unless we flip him. But I think they want a locker room guy they get on Kole. I don’t care too much as long as Josh Smith plays and Duran too

Tough going for a guy like Patton
I can't imagine a team wanting Duggar very badly though. I couldn't imagine why we wanted him until I thought about us needing a backup OF if we traded a couple of guys.
 

BULLPEN FAILURE

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I am not talking about record, I am talking about talent. The 2010 team was much better and poised to go deeper.

The 2016 Rangers weren't facing the 2010 Rangers. Two completely different seasons.

Hamels was brought in for the same reason Lee was: to get the Rangers to and through the postseason.
 

Kelleyman

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This guy missed the boat
 

saddles

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The 2016 Rangers weren't facing the 2010 Rangers. Two completely different seasons.

Hamels was brought in for the same reason Lee was: to get the Rangers to and through the postseason.
When they acquired Hamels in 2015 they had no idea that they could win so many games in 2016, a tribute to Banny. They knew how good they were in 2010. They didn't know how many games they would win in 2016. No one did. By the time we traded for Lee we all had very high hopes for 2010.

Somehow Banny got that 2016 team to win more games than their talent level can explain. He could not get them to perform that way in the postseason though. Then they played to their talent level.

Anyway, that is how I distinguish the difference in the two trades.
 
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