POLL Would You Rather? Baker vs Burrow

[dtgold88]

Yeah but the difference was the offense style they were asked to play. Ohio state was running the same concepts every single time.

LSU was running complex route trees with true reads like the NFL does where the QB AND the WR read the defense and make a read on what route is to be run. And all this was against one of the toughest schedules a college kid will ever have to face. Ohio State basically was running the same play over and over again and just letting talent win against a lot of pathetic Big 10 defenses.

There is a good reason Joe Brady only had to spend a single year as a college OC before being given a job in the NFL. He taught a complex system to college kids in the span of a single year.

Everyone who is talking up Baker in this thread is pointing to the fact that he has run an NFL offense. Well so has Burrow. He just did it in college. The offense he ran at LSU was more complex than the one Cleveland was running (Cleveland was HORRIBLY coached).

I am not saying I dont like Baker. I'm just saying I REALLY like Burrow. I think Baker has a ceiling of being no better than an average to slightly above average QB in the NFL. I just dont see anything that Baker does better than Burrows does. His ball placement and timing on throws just isnt anything we have seen from a college QB.

And I dont see why Burrow wouldnt translate to the NFL especially considering he faced very aggressive D's that put pressure on him consistently in college that he always beat. Dude isn't going to wilt like a lot of college QB's do when he gets to the NFL and see pressure for the first time.

That's my opinion anyway. I can see why others might think differently on this question. But I swing for the fences with this one. I pick the guy I think that could be great over the guy that we probably know (book is still out on Mayfield too BTW) is good.

great but the post to which I replied implied Burrow had a far better season than any college QB and that is not the case. Had to go all the way back to 2018 to find a QB who put up numbers like he did.

 

[ducky]

They did have a lot of talent at OU. No doubt....but he also joined an 0-16 team and set rookie records for QBs.

The rookie record thing gets WAY overplayed. He beat past QB's statistically. But he did that because of how the NFL has changed.

In 1998 Manning passed for 3700 some yards but he was leading a team that finished probably close to top 5 in total passing offense. In 2018 Mayfield passed for 3800 some yards but he was leading a team that probably finished no better than average in terms of passing yards.

 

[dtgold88]

i havent hid it. Im a huge mayfield fan, dating back to his college days. his behavior this past year has soured me a bit. But i actually love his cockiness. I love his story, 2 time walk on, heisman, #1 pick. Keeps betting on himself, keeps winning. His team mates would take a bullet for him(regardless of how outsiders view him)........Breaks rookie passing records.........im sorry, i love it.

I did, too, for the most part, but even before he fell off a cliff last year I was kind of hoping he would grow up and just shut up and play.

 

[dtgold88]

My final thoughts on this and I am going to leave it alone.

70% of the people responded they feel Burrow would be the better option. Basically saying the feel Baker is not leading this team to be any more successful then any other Browns drafted QB in the last 20 years. In tow years he's tossed 49 TDs and 35 INTs I think that sticks out. In those two years the Browns still have not had a winning record in fact they did worse in his second year than his first. And they had a lot of talent last year at least offensive weapons. It's very possible the NFL defenses figured him out real fast. Now that question asked was do you feel Burrow is a better option? Well based on the losing records, the 35 INTs in two years, the decline from year one to year two and should damn sure be a real consideration but I can't see how they could make that happen.

I think Baker will get another shot this year, still be pretty average at best and the Browns will be forced to do something.

ok

 

[SteelersPride]

The rookie record thing gets WAY overplayed. He beat past QB's statistically. But he did that because of how the NFL has changed.

In 1998 Manning passed for 3700 some yards but he was leading a team that finished probably close to top 5 in total passing offense. In 2018 Mayfield passed for 3800 some yards but he was leading a team that probably finished no better than average in terms of passing yards.

so why havent others put up similar numbers then? recently......i mean its easy now a days...

 

[Shanemansj13]

The rookie record thing gets WAY overplayed. He beat past QB's statistically. But he did that because of how the NFL has changed.

In 1998 Manning passed for 3700 some yards but he was leading a team that finished probably close to top 5 in total passing offense. In 2018 Mayfield passed for 3800 some yards but he was leading a team that probably finished no better than average in terms of passing yards.

Mayfield also only played 14 games. If times have changed so much how come we don't see this more often? It was a great rookie year, nothing more to say but that's in the past.

What we do know is Baker showed what he can be and hopefully the future holds even more. Burrow hasn't played a down in the NFL.

 

[dtgold88]

The rookie record thing gets WAY overplayed. He beat past QB's statistically. But he did that because of how the NFL has changed.

In 1998 Manning passed for 3700 some yards but he was leading a team that finished probably close to top 5 in total passing offense. In 2018 Mayfield passed for 3800 some yards but he was leading a team that probably finished no better than average in terms of passing yards.

He also had to deal with a coaching change midseason and was among the more efficient QBs in the entire league after the change.

 

[SteelersPride]

Mayfield also only played 14 games. If times have changed so much how come we don't see this more often? It was a great rookie year, nothing more to say but that's in the past.

What we do know is Baker showed what he can be and hopefully the future holds even more. Burrow hasn't played a down in the NFL.

not gonna have a good answer for you, when ducky makes claims, if u have a good rebuttal, he ignores it

 

[ducky]

so why havent others put up similar numbers then? recently......i mean its easy now a days...

Murray just had an almost identical season to what Mayfield did in his first year. And he did it on a way worse team talent wise.

 

[Shanemansj13]

He also had to deal with a coaching change midseason and was among the more efficient QBs in the entire league after the change.

3 coaches in two years and a shit OL. He is awful, it's all his fault! Find a new QB immediately!!

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah you hit it...we really don't know what he is yet, but we have seen young QBs have a good year early and never get back to that level.

Right now. I would say everything is still trending up for Mayfield, but this will be a big year...maybe not make or break (I'm on record saying he will get the full 5 at least in CLE), but yr 3 he needs to get back to the positive vibe side of things.

I kind of think make or break is fair in a sense. He at least needs to perform as well as he did in 2018 with all the weapons he has.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Murray just had an almost identical season to what Mayfield did in his first year. And he did it on a way worse team talent wise.

2018 Browns weren't some great roster, they were ok. Murray started 16 games, Mayfield 14. Kyler did have a very nice year...that still doesn't explain why it doesn't happen all the time since times have changed like you said. You aren't making much sense

 

[dtgold88]

I'm willing to wait until the guy can get some frickin consistency in the coaching ranks. I don't care what QB you put behind center in Cleveland last year with that idiot Kitchens, they were going to fail more often than not. Listen to our 2019 OC's thoughts on Kitchens:



There isn't a QB in the league that was going to win under those sort of circumstances.

I mean...the guy knew what Baker did well (12 personnel) and Freddie ignored it. Unbelievable how insecure that guy is.

 

[dtgold88]

Murray just had an almost identical season to what Mayfield did in his first year. And he did it on a way worse team talent wise.

Baker joined an 0-16 team his rookie year. His #2 and 3 WRs were a 4th round rookie who didn't play the previous season in college and a 5th round pick.

"way worse"?

 

[SteelersPride]

Murray just had an almost identical season to what Mayfield did in his first year. And he did it on a way worse team talent wise.

oh yeah? and all the other qb's? its been passing league for how long........come on dude, weak.



so top is baker. he had as more passing yards in 2 less games.......so no not similar
baker had 7 more touchdowns in 2 less games, so no not similar
12 to 14 interceptions, 2 less games played, yeah similar
bakers qb rating 93.7 , kylers 87.4 no not similar


bakers sacks are far less as well........

has nearly 1 more yard per attempt
1.3 more yards per completion
about the same completion percentage.......

4 gwd in 2 less games compared to 2 for murray
3 4th quarter comebacks compared to 1 for murray

so were just surface scratching here but remind me again how they had the same numbers?

Gotta go with Burrow. I think he’s gonna be solid right out of the gate in the NFL.

sooooo based on what?

alot of ppl gotta go with burrow, but have no rationale

 

[ducky]

He also had to deal with a coaching change midseason and was among the more efficient QBs in the entire league after the change.

Which actually helped him. Every team should switch offenses halfway through the season. Or at least incorporate more things than they actually do.

For as much as people want to give credit to NFL coaches, NFL coaches are stupid. It takes them a good 10-16 games to figure out how to stop something. Baker wasnt worse last season than he was his rookie year. NFL defenses just figured out the Browns system. That's wasn't Baker's fault.

Baker will play the same if not a little better than we have seen him the last couple of years and he will be better this year because he will be playing in a better run offense.

Again....I dont dislike Baker. I think he is a solid NFL QB and will be for years to come. I just dont think he has something that will separate him from average NFL QB's. Average NFL QB's are a good not a bad thing.

I just think Burrow has a little something more that will separate him from the pack.

 

[Wamu]

oh yeah? and all the other qb's? its been passing league for how long........come on dude, weak.

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so top is baker. he had as more passing yards in 2 less games.......so no not similar
baker had 7 more touchdowns in 2 less games, so no not similar
12 to 14 interceptions, 2 less games played, yeah similar
bakers qb rating 93.7 , kylers 87.4 no not similar


bakers sacks are far less as well........

has nearly 1 more yard per attempt
1.3 more yards per completion
about the same completion percentage.......

4 gwd in 2 less games compared to 2 for murray
3 4th quarter comebacks compared to 1 for murray

so were just surface scratching here but remind me again how they had the same numbers?

Damn.

 

[dtgold88]

not gonna have a good answer for you, when ducky makes claims, if u have a good rebuttal, he ignores it

"Irrational people don’t want to have conversations. They only want to talk. They don’t listen to anyone else and they sure don’t appreciate being asked questions. They take it as a personal offense."

 

[SteelersPride]

Damn.

well according to @ducky their numbers are identical, and its common place for everyone to break rookie passing records. I mean everyones been doing it.

"Irrational people don’t want to have conversations. They only want to talk. They don’t listen to anyone else and they sure don’t appreciate being asked questions. They take it as a personal offense."

i think ive made that claim before!

 

[Shanemansj13]

Baker joined an 0-16 team his rookie year. His #2 and 3 WRs were a 4th round rookie who didn't play the previous season in college and a 5th round pick.

"way worse"?

*0-16 the previous season*