Daniels vs Maye: Final thoughts

[Niner Outlaw]

Taking another team's #2 WR and paying him to be your #1 WR rarely (ever?) works out. It's the old Alvin Harper trap.

 

[skinsdad62]

Again, Higgins is not an unrestricted free agent. He's been tagged this year and officially a member of the Bengals, who as a condition of this trade allow Washington to contractually agree with him as a condition of that trade. Moves like that happen a lot in the NFL.

he under the franchise tag which hasnt been signed yet nothing the team can do to move him

 

[skinsdad62]

refresh my memory , who has been franchise tagged , and traded in a sign and trade ?

 

[skinsdad62]

The tagged player can negotiate with other teams, but his current team has the right to match any offer or receive two first-round draft picks as compensation if he signs with another club. Exclusive franchise tag: Unlike the non-exclusive version, the tagging team retains the sole right to negotiate with the player.
no mention of a team being able to trade a layer on a sign and trade deal

 

[Niner Outlaw]

refresh my memory , who has been franchise tagged , and traded in a sign and trade ?

A sign and trade like in the NBA doesn't work in the NFL in the tag system. I.e. if Cincy signs Higgins to a LTD and then trades him--that usually doesn't work in the NFL b/c the NFL is a hard cap system and the NBA is a soft cap system. I'm not sure that answers your question.

Many teams have tagged a guy who refused to sign the tag and then traded the tagged player to a new team that signed him to a LTD. I.e. KC just traded Sneed to the Titans who signed him to a LTD.

If you mean has any team tagged a player and then declined to match another team's offer to him (meaning the signing team has to give up 2 #1s)----then yes, IIRC, it's only happened once, Sean Gilbert.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Not on any team. Who has left a team as a #2 and become a number one?

Where's Breed? He could tell you. But honestly its about Higgins and the Redskins. If you want to be technical, as folks for Higgins have been saying, he has what it takes to function as the WR1 on this team. Its an impact thing, like when folks though Jerry Rice was washed in San Fran and produced WR1 numbers in Oakland even though he wasn't the team leader in stats.
This is beyond titles and money, its about what Higgins specifically does for the entire offense.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

refresh my memory , who has been franchise tagged , and traded in a sign and trade ?

AJ Brown i believe

 

[PDay8810]

determining #1's and #2's is pure 21st century fan boy talk. Zero substance to winning football game.

not shocking so many here what to hammer this point. Whole buncha so called #2's in the HOF.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

determining #1's and #2's is pure 21st century fan boy talk. Zero substance to winning football game.

not shocking so many here what to hammer this point. Whole buncha so called #2's in the HOF.

Yeah while there's some agreements on Higgins, we are divided on his worth or lack there of. We both want the same thing for the team though!! You guys are still gonna be tough to beat in the division

 

[gkekoa]

That's not what I wrote! Tee gets no credit for bad QB play and neither does Terry. They are what their record says they are. I hope that you're clear on this now.

1. You're entitled to your opinion, and so am I.

2. No I have not, you're cherry-picking my responses and responding to out-of-context parts of it.

3. Again, you're entitled to that opinion, however, the "status quo" defers the pressing need to upgrade now to another time in the future... next year's draft. The status quo also virtually guarantees that any sign of struggle by Daniels, because he doesn't have enough weapons, will be enough for some here to begin calling him a bust or for the backup QB to come in. Perhaps we'll get revisionists to say that trading Howell was a mistake and all the BS that has already been displayed on this board over the years.

4. ????

5. Every move made thus far has been upgrades where needed. They are certainly not stability moves (whatever that means) because, believe it or not, games will be played this year, and winning as many of them as possible remains a primary goal.

QB is different from all other positions, so, first impressions matter... you know... rookie seasons. Once established as the answer, the long-term plans kick in, including, moves to make the team a championship one. We all hope that they can protect him throughout his career, but once again, part of that protection has to be giving him better weapons than we've had before. That is, of course, unless you believe that protecting him now is dismissable or worse, doesn't count.

Absolutely but I am sure I wasn’t the only one confused by your statement.

1- Completely agree.

2- Not cherry picking anything. This is part of the communication result. When you mention TH height and weight in several posts and calling him a number one, it was reasonable to believe you were saying it was the reason. I do agree we need his body frame as something different than what we have.

3- I am far more worried about the OL than I am the weapons. JD can make WRs look better because of his dual threat but he may not be able to live rough a season if we have t improved the OL. I don’t care what others say about JD. I still believe we should have kept SH and started this season to allow JD a year to absorb the NFL..hopefully increasing SH’s trade value.

4- Two and three year contracts are for stability in the franchise…not win now moves. If we were trying to win now, we would have signed Tyron Smith spent the other 25 million we have. There are still some bad contracts we are needing to get rid of.


Aikman and Manning had horrible first seasons because they went to garbage teams. You have to build a team properly…not buy it.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Aikman and Manning had horrible first seasons because they went to garbage teams. You have to build a team properly…not buy it.

Aikman, yes, went to a garbage team. He had one WR (Irvin) and a bunch of nothing.

OTOH, Peyton Manning as a rookie had a Glenn at LT, Harrison at WR, and Faulk at RB. Or are you talking about Eli Manning?

 

[redskinsfan1963]

btw Higgins wants 24 per. i threw out 29 per as a max. That's reasonable, its the going rate for vets.
Am i missing something? Higgins is a beast, he helped his team reach a superbowl, i don't get how this isn't a no brainer.
We have money. Of course i respect your opinion gkekoa, i just don't get how this is an topic for a position thats so weak on our team

i,m at the point if he helps a rookie qb and the team move forward,snatch him up asap.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

Aikman, yes, went to a garbage team. He had one WR (Irvin) and a bunch of nothing.

OTOH, Peyton Manning as a rookie had a Glenn at LT, Harrison at WR, and Faulk at RB. Or are you talking about Eli Manning?

peyton,s first year was iffy if i recall right.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

peyton,s first year was iffy if i recall right.

IIRC, Peyton Manning had a nightmare rookie season. He set a record for INTs in a season (28) and that record still stands today. That rookie season he only completed 56% of his passes, had a 71 passer rating, etc. After that nightmare season, the Colts traded Faulk (drafted E.James) and suddenly Manning was a Pro Bowler the next 2 years and MVP a couple of years after that.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

IIRC, Peyton Manning had a nightmare rookie season. He set a record for INTs in a season (28) and that record still stands today. That rookie season he only completed 56% of his passes, had a 71 passer rating, etc. After that nightmare season, He was an All Pro the next 2 years.

lol i did,nt know it was that bad.i knew he was,nt a shining star year 1.

 

[skinsdad62]

A sign and trade like in the NBA doesn't work in the NFL in the tag system. I.e. if Cincy signs Higgins to a LTD and then trades him--that usually doesn't work in the NFL b/c the NFL is a hard cap system and the NBA is a soft cap system. I'm not sure that answers your question.

Many teams have tagged a guy who refused to sign the tag and then traded the tagged player to a new team that signed him to a LTD. I.e. KC just traded Sneed to the Titans who signed him to a LTD.

If you mean has any team tagged a player and then declined to match another team's offer to him (meaning the signing team has to give up 2 #1s)----then yes, IIRC, it's only happened once, Sean Gilbert.

You did answer my question. My point is you can trade for a guy like Chase or Sweat and risk getting a one year rental . The bears signed him but the 49ers didn’t at a cost of a 3rd rounder .

Now I am being asked by Sty and Skin ‘em to risk a 2nd round pick in a trade which does what for our team for one year ? Add 3 wins ? For one year and watch TEE leave after one year and your 2nd rounder ( or more ) go out the door next year to have the same issue next off season ?

Or we can wait for TEE to be an FA next year and keep our resources.

Add to it Cincy is a Super Bowl contender at what cost are they willing to let him go

Sign and trades are a myth In The NFL as the bengals would be on for the massive cap as well because the NFL has a hard cap

 

[chillerdab]

Yeah. No doubt that D. Jackson was a difference maker in the 3 seasons out of 5 that Garcon was here. (Josh Morgan and Leonard Hankerson started with him in 2012 and 2013 respectively)

Good debating points about a DeSean Jackson, although it can be further reasoned that, as was the case with Garcon, a player like Jackson would also relegate Terry to WR2 status.

Well I’m frankly not concerned if TM is a one or a two, so long as the redskins find a way to make his life easier.

One legit #1 wr would do that, but so would better schemes, or a whole bunch of reliable #2 type wr’s.

IMO, Dotson is a #2 type. Logan Thomas would have been as well, if he could have stayed healthy.

Still wasnt enough bc we didnt have a good enough qb when they were all healthy and on the field.

Hopefully Stinnott and Ertz can take away lb coverage, and LM can work the middle of the field for Dotson and TM.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

You did answer my question. My point is you can trade for a guy like Chase or Sweat and risk getting a one year rental . The bears signed him but the 49ers didn’t at a cost of a 3rd rounder .

Now I am being asked by Sty and Skin ‘em to risk a 2nd round pick in a trade which does what for our team for one year ? Add 3 wins ? For one year and watch TEE leave after one year and your 2nd rounder ( or more ) go out the door next year to have the same issue next off season ?

Or we can wait for TEE to be an FA next year and keep our resources.

Add to it Cincy is a Super Bowl contender at what cost are they willing to let him go

Sign and trades are a myth In The NFL as the bengals would be on for the massive cap as well because the NFL has a hard cap

sf did us a favor by taking lazy ass chase.good riddance.

Well I’m frankly not concerned if TM is a one or a two, so long as the redskins find a way to make his life easier.

One legit #1 wr would do that, but so would better schemes, or a whole bunch of reliable #2 type wr’s.

IMO, Dotson is a #2 type. Logan Thomas would have been as well, if he could have stayed healthy.

Still wasnt enough bc we didnt have a good enough qb when they were all healthy and on the field.

Hopefully Stinnott and Ertz can take away lb coverage, and LM can work the middle of the field for Dotson and TM.

datsun hopefully gets his shit together year 3.

 

[gkekoa]

Don’t sleep on Dotson. After a tremendously successful rookie campaign, his second season was quite the slump but with a new QB and a new system, hopefully his career is revived.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

Don’t sleep on Dotson. After a tremendously successful rookie campaign, his second season was quite the slump but with a new QB and a new system, hopefully his career is revived.

i'm willing to agree with that