POLL Would You Rather? Baker vs Burrow

[ATL96Steeler]

Haven't seen any average QBs break the rookie QB passing TD record in 13 games while dealing with coaching staff turnover midseason. I don't think anyone knows exactly what he is yet, but saying he's average is pretty short-sighted.

Yeah you hit it...we really don't know what he is yet, but we have seen young QBs have a good year early and never get back to that level.

Right now. I would say everything is still trending up for Mayfield, but this will be a big year...maybe not make or break (I'm on record saying he will get the full 5 at least in CLE), but yr 3 he needs to get back to the positive vibe side of things.

 

[SteelersPride]

Yeah it's an opinion but it's an accurate one. Baker had a lot of weapons and still the offense struggled. So when he has another sub par year this year or next you still going to defend him? What I said I firmly believe when he came out he was overhyped they had a lot of talent at OU that carried him. The Browns as usual instead of doing their homework went for the glitter guy and again are still cellar dwellers.

I'm just curious. Do you feel like Watson underperformed?

 

[SteelersPride]

Through two seasons (and 3 head coaches/offensive coordinators), Baker's stats are:

61.5% comp, 7.4 YPA, 49 TD, 35 INT

Another famous QB, through two full seasons as a starter, had stats that looked like this:

59.3% comp, 7.1 YPA, 52 TD, 43 INT

What an "average talent" Peyton Manning was

Very true. However, times are different , as are systems and expectations. You don't get that long grace period now. Qbs then we're expected to struggle then grow. Things are far more advanced now, you don't have a 3-4 year learning curve.

 

[Across The Field]

Like I said dude over hyped coming out of college once again Browns management hoodwinked. You have become the model of how not to draft a QB in this league. That's a fact. And if you like him I am cool with that, and if you enjoy being the divisional bottom feeder year in and year out I am cool with that. If you want to blame every one but your QB, I'm cool with that. Just accept you are going to be the divisional bitch and move on. Unless until you draft your next QB of the future.

lol haven't finished at the bottom of the division once since he got here but alright. We were hoodwinked into drafting a guy that set QB passing records. Can't stop laughing at this idiocy, keep it up.

 

[Across The Field]

Yeah you hit it...we really don't know what he is yet, but we have seen young QBs have a good year early and never get back to that level.

Right now. I would say everything is still trending up for Mayfield, but this will be a big year...maybe not make or break (I'm on record saying he will get the full 5 at least in CLE), but yr 3 he needs to get back to the positive vibe side of things.

I'm willing to wait until the guy can get some frickin consistency in the coaching ranks. I don't care what QB you put behind center in Cleveland last year with that idiot Kitchens, they were going to fail more often than not. Listen to our 2019 OC's thoughts on Kitchens:

Offensive coordinator Todd Monken, who joined Cleveland’s staff this year after three seasons in that role for Tampa Bay, told opposing coaches late in the season that the Browns were “a total mess” and that Kitchens’ play-calling often deviated from the discussed game plans, according to a story in The Athletic.

There isn't a QB in the league that was going to win under those sort of circumstances.

 

[megalodon30]

and thats why most ppl laugh at you

He was better than any Steelers QB this year.

 

[Across The Field]

Very true. However, times are different , as are systems and expectations. You don't get that long grace period now. Qbs then we're expected to struggle then grow. Things are far more advanced now, you don't have a 3-4 year learning curve.

I think it's going to be different with Baker, for the simple fact that he he shown some great things despite complete and total chaos in the coaching staff for his first two seasons. I'm excited about hiring Stefanski, as I think his scheme is going to fit our offense perfectly.

 

[dtgold88]

Right now gotta go Baker despite last season. I've at least seen Baker have a successful NFL season. Only time he didn't he had children coaching him.

Like Burrow, so I do hope that isn't his fate.

 

[dtgold88]

I guess Burrow. I was never high on Baker but I thought he had NFL potential. He has way to much talent around him not to have more success. I won't say bust but he's starting to show he may be a back up at best. With Burrow he's and unknown and that is true of any rookie but you have to roll those dice to know.

I can see picking Burrow.

But Baker had one season where he set rookie records for all QBs who ever played the sport. Another where he shit the bed with the worst coach the Browns have ever had (let that sink in).

Just as likely he's the guy we saw in 2018.

 

[dtgold88]

Burrow by a wide margin.

Burrow EASILY had the best season as a QB that we have ever witnessed in college football history. The guy looks extra-ordinary. His accuracy down the field looks next to none. Could he bust? Sure. Maybe he cant handle NFL pressure and reads. Maybe the lack of pure arm strength limits him a touch. But you still roll the dice with him because if he can handle those things, he can throw the ball 1000 times better than Mayfield can.

To me his floor is Kirk Cousins while his ceiling is the next Peyton Manning.

Could argue Haskins had one of the best seasons ever, as well, in CFB.

Not sure how much that will matter.

 

[SteelersPride]

He was better than any Steelers QB this year.

wow, setting the bar high there.

 

[SteelersPride]

I think it's going to be different with Baker, for the simple fact that he he shown some great things despite complete and total chaos in the coaching staff for his first two seasons. I'm excited about hiring Stefanski, as I think his scheme is going to fit our offense perfectly.

i agree. My only point was the manning learning curve. guys dont get that chance now. But college systems, etc are different, guys come into the league far more advanced, expected to do more early

 

[dtgold88]

Luck was more athletic and had a stronger arm.

But we have never, ever seen a college QB throw the ball like Burrow's did.

"never, ever"? I'd put Haskins on his level for what they did in college. doesn't mean Burrow wont be a better pro, but their college careers are similar (even if you only include LSU #s for Burrow)

Haskins had a slightly better overall rating of 174 to 173.

 

[dtgold88]

system perhaps? bakers college numbers, and accuracy were quite stunning. Nick foles had a season with what 21 tds and 2int....LSU's offense was a typical NFL offense? really?

take a look at Haskins vs. Burrow in college. Very close.

I mean, does Burrow's 2018 not count to those who say he is the obvious choice?

 

[dtgold88]

I think it's going to be different with Baker, for the simple fact that he he shown some great things despite complete and total chaos in the coaching staff for his first two seasons. I'm excited about hiring Stefanski, as I think his scheme is going to fit our offense perfectly.

I'd probably choose these coaches over the 2018 guys and he did pretty well as a rookie with those guys.

 

[SteelersPride]

take a look at Haskins vs. Burrow in college. Very close.

I mean, does Burrow's 2018 not count to those who say he is the obvious choice?

no , it doesnt. Recency bias.

Burrow was in the spotlight, so its all they know. If you notice, the guys on tv the most, are always the bestest

 

[dtgold88]

I dont always use my marbles, but it is true. I do horde them!

with TP?

 

[dtgold88]

Why not?

It's no knock on Baker, guy has always been a baller

I just don't see a real weakness in Burrow's game.
- Overall accuracy
- He consistently makes the right plays
- Not afraid to take deep shots and believes in his WRs
- Knows when to check down and great against the blitz
- Makes good reads
- Good poise, good pocket presence, patient with the football
- Great mobility to either extend plays or get a first down
- Takes care of himself on and off the field and is a player I would want representing my team

What's there's not to like

all of that was true of Baker in 2018...and he did it as a rookie in the NFL, not as a senior in the SEC.

 

[dtgold88]

personalities and leadership are a large part of this more often than not. I said I need more data between the two but you said that was the point....so I made my selection, and now you've made yours

Even as a fan of his I don't disagree he needs to grow up.

 

[dtgold88]

no , it doesnt. Recency bias.

Burrow was in the spotlight, so its all they know. If you notice, the guys on tv the most, are always the bestest

Makes sense as Baker's 2018 is also dismissed.