Who wins NL MVP??

[The Derski]

if you dont have the triple crown then it is irrelevant how many stats you lead in!!!

 

[BigDDude]

OPS+
Goldy 160
McCutch 158

McCutch is a better base runner. You don't need WAR to say McCutchen>Goldy

Making this a good place to ask a question I know nothing of.

How is Goldschmidt with the glove? I know McCutcheon can run and catch with the best, with maybe this unanswered question being a final determining factor between the 2?

 

[The Derski]

Making this a good place to ask a question I know nothing of.

How is Goldschmidt with the glove? I know McCutcheon can run and catch with the best, with maybe this unanswered question being a final determining factor between the 2?

Well Goldschmidt just won a Gold Glove 2 days ago...

 

[Lord Scalious]

I think if it does not go to Goldschmidt....McCutchen gets the MVP based on WAR....and the Pirates are the media darlings.

even though they have virtually the same OPS+?

I know you would like to ignore the Park factor Advantage Goldy has hitting in Arizona...but it does exists.

 

[The Derski]

even though they have virtually the same OPS+?

I know you would like to ignore the Park factor Advantage Goldy has hitting in Arizona...but it does exists.

Chase Field was middle of the pack in Park Factor last season.

2013 MLB Park Factors - Runs - Major League Baseball - ESPN

 

[Lord Scalious]

Making this a good place to ask a question I know nothing of.

How is Goldschmidt with the glove? I know McCutcheon can run and catch with the best, with maybe this unanswered question being a final determining factor between the 2?

Both are fine defenders.

For the context of this debate. I'm ignoring defense. Since I cannot say for sure one was better than the other. The Fangraphs defensive measure and URZ has McCutch as better...but DSR has Goldy as better..

So I'm calling it coin flip and focusing on offense and Base running.

 

[Lord Scalious]

Chase Field was middle of the pack in Park Factor last season.

2013 MLB Park Factors - Runs - Major League Baseball - ESPN

Yes...but the Context is the Pirates v D Backs. You do agree that Chase Field is still more friendly, correct?

and many different ball park factor measurements out there. So, that's why I ask it as a question.

 

[navamind]

Yes...but the Context is the Pirates v D Backs. You do agree that Chase Field is still more friendly, correct?

and many different ball park factor measurements out there. So, that's why I ask it as a question.

Yup...

Arizona Diamondbacks Attendance, Stadiums, and Park Factors - Baseball-Reference.com

Anything above 100 is considered favorable to hitters. May not have been as extreme as in prior years, but it still was a hitters park. Meanwhile, PNC Park throughout its history has played as a pitchers park.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Making this a good place to ask a question I know nothing of.

How is Goldschmidt with the glove? I know McCutcheon can run and catch with the best, with maybe this unanswered question being a final determining factor between the 2?

Both were good defensively this year, but a good defensive CF provides more value than a good defensive 1B on the fielding side of things.

 

[The Derski]

Both were good defensively this year, but a good defensive CF provides more value than a good defensive 1B on the fielding side of things.

Debatable. You don't want a first baseman who cant scoop the ball or one that has no range. I agree that CF is an important defensive position. Its hard to compare defense when talking about players from different positions, especially OF vs IF. Plus McCutchen wasn't even the best at his position defensively while Goldy was.

 

[da55bums]

to me?? no, but i see where you are going... there are some players that the media want to give it to... But looking at who i said the top 5 choices are there is no east coast bias guy!!!

Chris Davis...Baltimore...? Did Baltimore get moved again, I can't keep track of that city.

 

[BigDDude]

Both were good defensively this year, but a good defensive CF provides more value than a good defensive 1B on the fielding side of things.

No doubt. I was just curious, as I myself do not think of or use gold gloves as my measuring stick of who the good fielders really are.

 

[StanMarsh51]

]Debatable. You don't want a first baseman who cant scoop the ball or one that has no range. I agree that CF is an important defensive position. Its hard to compare defense when talking about players from different positions, especially OF vs IF.[/B] Plus McCutchen wasn't even the best at his position defensively while Goldy was.

It's really debatable that 1B is a less important defensive position than CF?

And you're right, McCutchen wasn't the best CF this year, but is it directly equatable in the sense that the #1 defensive 1B is on par with the #1 defensive CF, and down the list (#2 at one position = #2 at another)?

That would be somewhat like saying the best #7 hitter in baseball is better than the 3rd best #3 hitter because the 3rd best #3 hitter wasn't the best at his spot. The #3 hitter's peers are better than the #7 hitter's peers, just like McCutchen's peers (centerfielders) on the whole are better defensively than Goldschmidt's peers (1st basemen).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

It's really debatable that 1B is a less important defensive position than CF?

And you're right, McCutchen wasn't the best CF this year, but is it directly equatable in the sense that the #1 defensive 1B is on par with the #1 defensive CF, and down the list (#2 at one position = #2 at another)?

That would be somewhat like saying the best #7 hitter in baseball is better than the 3rd best #3 hitter because the 3rd best #3 hitter wasn't the best at his spot. The #3 hitter's peers are better than the #7 hitter's peers, just like McCutchen's peers on the whole are better defensively than Goldschmidt's peers.

I am not sold that being a CF is harder than being a first baseman or any other defensive position... I think we are blinded towards the flashy athletiicism that it takes to be a CF,SS,2B... But just because you are fast does not mean you can catch the ball... First basemen need to have great gloves, they need to have better reflexes than OF... So there are athletic skills that are needed at all positions to be good...

We diminish 1B as a defensive position because thats where teams put there Batter who doesnt have a position... But once we are talking about the good defensive players, i dont think there is much of a difference...

You can even say 1B is more important than CF since 1B touches the ball much more than CF does... the differential of plays made by a good OF compared to a bad OF is much less than the differential between a good 1B and a bad 1B...

 

[StanMarsh51]

I am not sold that being a CF is harder than being a first baseman or any other defensive position... I think we are blinded towards the flashy athletiicism that it takes to be a CF,SS,2B... But just because you are fast does not mean you can catch the ball... First basemen need to have great gloves, they need to have better reflexes than OF... So there are athletic skills that are needed at all positions to be good...

We diminish 1B as a defensive position because thats where teams put there Batter who doesnt have a position... But once we are talking about the good defensive players, i dont think there is much of a difference...

You can even say 1B is more important than CF since 1B touches the ball much more than CF does... the differential of plays made by a good OF compared to a bad OF is much less than the differential between a good 1B and a bad 1B...

Then again, I think you'd have an extremely hard time arguing that there wasn't much of a difference between the likes of Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez in their defensive prime vs the likes of Willie Mays and Andruw Jones.

And if 1B were more important, as you mentioned, we wouldn't see as many guy stuck there when their skills were diminishing or there was no DH (ie - Ortiz). There's a reason why those type of guys are stuck at 1B or LF, and it's not to give them the most chances to practice.

 

[broncosmitty]

Is that really supposed to be a strike against Votto? Considering he had 138 strikeouts, a difference of three is pretty remarkable. And with that, he captured his fourth consecutive OBP title.

Votto didn't drive in many runs, but that had a bit to do with pitchers pitching around him with RISP. He batted .291 and slugged .455 with RISP (not great by any means, but he isn't hurting them either), but he was walked 51 times in just 193 PA, giving him a .477 OBP. He batted .287/.458/.434 with men on (332 PA).

I do think Goldy had a better year, but it's a lot closer than some people think IMO.

I think McCutchen wins it, and I think he's the most deserving.

As much as you can have a strike against a guy who's being promoted as the top choice for MVP. Votto is a great player. Somebody had to break the seal on this thread. You're welcome fellow SportsHoopla posters.

 

[Jonas_steven]

Goldy for MVP

 

[StanMarsh51]

]I dont get how you can potentially sweep every major award[/B] and not win the MVP. Thats just seems like a contradiction. I get the whole non playoff team thing but still. Give it to the best player in the league and Goldy was the best player in the league.

All of these awards are voted by different people.

-Silver sluggers and gold gloves are voted on by coaches
-Hank Aaron Award is voted on by the fans (I'm still laughing over the times Aramis Ramirez and Jeter won)
-MVP is voted on by sportswriters

What one group votes on shouldn't affect what the other does.

 

[Tigertowner68]

All of these awards are voted by different people.

-Silver sluggers and gold gloves are voted on by coaches
-Hank Aaron Award is voted on by the fans (I'm still laughing over the times Aramis Ramirez and Jeter won)
-MVP is voted on by sportswriters

What one group votes on shouldn't affect what the other does.

I guess Paul Goldschmidt in the weakest field that I can remember...

 

[AnotherLevel55]

I think it should be Goldschmidt, but wouldn't be wrong if McCutchen takes it.

Everyone needs to remember that even though the Dbacks didn't make the playoffs, it's not like they were bottom feeders either, they were competitive all year long and were leading the division for a while until the Dodgers became world beaters.