When will Lebron pass Jordan?

[SJ76]

So what's your point?

Point is Lebron needs help.

 

[CitySushi]

I don't see it as a detriment. My post was in response to someone who made a post trying to pretend that Lebron has had to win titles by himself because he didn't have as much help as MJ did, when that isn't the case at all.

That Cleveland team that he took the finals in his first stint in Cleveland was garbage outside of him, but those Heat teams and the Cleveland teams since his return all have had all star players on them. This current team is the worst one he's had since he left the Cavs the first time and even it is still a bit better than that 1st one.

Oh yeah I wasn't talking about you, it was more of a generality, which is why I said "people view". I didn't get that from your post, but I was piggy backing on what you were saying. I agree with you about the level of talent Lebron has had around him.

 

[GNG]

Point is Lebron needs help.

So does any other star player.

 

[SJ76]

So does any other star player.

SO if he needs help and Kyrie is elite.. What had happened? You don't let your young stud PG leave that hit a series clincher.

 

[GNG]

SO if he needs help and Kyrie is elite.. What had happened? You don't let your young stud PG leave that hit a series clincher.

Tell that to the GM.

 

[SJ76]

Tell that to the GM.

Yeah because superstar PGs leave title teams because of the GM. It was the GMs fault Kyrie wanted out.

 

[msgkings322]

SO if he needs help and Kyrie is elite.. What had happened? You don't let your young stud PG leave that hit a series clincher.

Why do keep harping on this. Kyrie wanted to be the man more than he wanted to win more titles playing under (yes under) LeBron. And let's be honest it wasn't likely anyway with the Warriors still there. They were pretty lucky to get that one. Kyrie knows this.

If a star player wants out you gotta do something, if he stays all disgruntled on your team you ain't winning and he leaves in free agency.

In other words, this obsession of yours is dumb.

 

[SJ76]

Why do keep harping on this. Kyrie wanted to be the man more than he wanted to win more titles playing under (yes under) LeBron. And let's be honest it wasn't likely anyway with the Warriors still there. They were pretty lucky to get that one. Kyrie knows this.

If a star player wants out you gotta do something, if he stays all disgruntled on your team you ain't winning and he leaves in free agency.

In other words, this obsession of yours is dumb.

Because you know Kyrie and his plan to be the man over winning titles.. Hilarious

I can buy he wanted out and wants to win titles. But let's not act like there wasn't some tension between the 2 players which is sad. If you knew anything about bball, you would understand Kyrie and Lebron are 2 nice pieces to have to build around obviously. Do you know you how much of an effort Lebron made to have Kyrie stay? That was an ugly departure.


Hey I'm just wondering why Lebron's best side kick in years left him. You all have the obsession with Lebron needing help.


What is dumb are these threads every 60 days or so comparing MJ and Lebron. No comparison.

 

[msgkings322]

Because you know Kyrie and his plan to be the man over winning titles.. Hilarious

I can buy he wanted out and wants to win titles. But let's not act like there wasn't some tension between the 2 players which is sad. If you knew anything about bball, you would understand Kyrie and Lebron are 2 nice pieces to have to build around obviously. Do you know you how much of an effort Lebron made to have Kyrie stay? That was an ugly departure.


Hey I'm just wondering why Lebron's best side kick in years left him. You all have the obsession with Lebron needing help.


What is dumb are these threads every 60 days or so comparing MJ and Lebron. No comparison.

I'm sure Kyrie leaving had a lot to do with how he got along with LeBron, what's your point?

 

[SJ76]

I'm sure Kyrie leaving had a lot to do with how he got along with LeBron, what's your point?

good graciousness

Point is "Lebron needs help". But can't get along with a teammate enough where titles is the focus and put the bullshit behind them. Shows maturity on both sides. If winning titles was anyone's main goal you would think you would try your ass off to swallow some pride and play ball.


But we continue with.. Lebron needs help.

Well... Da fuq he gonna get help being like that?

 

[msgkings322]

good graciousness

Point is "Lebron needs help". But can't get along with a teammate enough where titles is the focus and put the bullshit behind them. Shows maturity on both sides. If winning titles was anyone's main goal you would think you would try your ass off to swallow some pride and play ball.


But we continue with.. Lebron needs help.

Well... Da fuq he gonna get help being like that?

Everyone needs help including LeBron. He probably wanted Kyrie to stay but there was probably nothing he could do. Even if LeBron was as fun to play with as Magic, Kyrie probably wanted to have his own team anyway.

You still haven't addressed the fact that the Cavs weren't beating GS anymore, as last year proved.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing on much here. We agree Kyrie left, partly having to do with LeBron. So, ok, sure.

 

[GNG]

8 Reasons LeBron James Is Better Than Michael Jordan And 8 Reasons He's Not

 

[tlance]

Thats another thing too, LeBron will ALWAYS have that hanging over his head. You didn't see Jordan jump to Boston or the Lakers or to the Magic in 96 after getting beat did you?

Imagine Jordan/Shaq in the 90s or with Bird/Magic in the 80s. Thats basically what LeBron did.

Wasn't possible back then because of free agency structure.

As for Wade, the year before LeBron he averaged 26.6, 4.8 and 6.5. Their first year together it was 25.5

I don't think it's debatable that Lebron has had a significant talent edge over his teammates than Jordan. But people view that as a detriment, when I don't see it the same way.

Jordan was a one man wrecking crew. His game was not designed nor suited to having other talented players around him. He was ball-centric and that's how he played.

Lebron is more geared towards Magic's type of game, but elevated. That's why people have such a hard time grasping why Lebron should be considered, not necessarily above, but considered up there with Jordan. No one shit's on Magic saying he was only successful because he had Kareem or Worthy. No one says anything about Bird having McHale, Parish, Johnson, etc. But for some reason it's an issue for Lebron, a guy like Magic and Bird who had multi-level skill sets, to have great teammates to have success.

There has also never been an era in NBA basketball where the league's best players were more spread out than in the 90s. There were teams with multiple allstars and even multiple HOF players. But, only 1 team with 2 prime superstars. Yes, I do think Pippen was a superstar for a few years, and one who complemented MJ's ball centric ways ideally.

The Bulls were an all time great team. They did not face a legitimate challenger at any point during their 6 Finals' trips aside from '98 against Utah because Pippen and Rodman were diminished.

Maybe the Rockets could have been that challenger, maybe the Magic had Shaq stayed and Penny not gotten hurt. But the reality is that 6-0 is the single most overrated statistic out there as a measure of MJ's individual greatness.

I was always a huge Jordan fan as a kid. I do not think James has passed him yet, and honestly I am not sure he can. But, 1A and 1B is starting to look like a possibility IMO. Maybe that is a copout, but what he is doing is completely unprecedented. He won't win a ring this year, but his status continues to rise daily.

 

[SJ76]

Everyone needs help including LeBron. He probably wanted Kyrie to stay but there was probably nothing he could do. Even if LeBron was as fun to play with as Magic, Kyrie probably wanted to have his own team anyway.

You still haven't addressed the fact that the Cavs weren't beating GS anymore, as last year proved.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing on much here. We agree Kyrie left, partly having to do with LeBron. So, ok, sure.

Is there a better team out there better equipped to beat Golden State with Durant than Cleveland with Kyrie? And some other pieces obviously. I mean they did beat them once without Durrant. Lol. Who's got a better shot?

I think Kyrie really was tired of the power struggle between LeBron, the so called GM and the owner. Kyrie just wanted to be somewhere normal and definitely build around youth to win titles. Cleveland was a shit show and has turned into a shit show because it was centered completely around LeBron. He was basically the GM right? That's what ran Kyrie's ass off. And that's on LeBron

 

[msgkings322]

Is there a better team out there better equipped to beat Golden State with Durant than Cleveland with Kyrie? And some other pieces obviously. I mean they did beat them once without Durrant. Lol. Who's got a better shot?

I think Kyrie really was tired of the power struggle between LeBron, the so called GM and the owner. Kyrie just wanted to be somewhere normal and definitely build around youth to win titles. Cleveland was a shit show and has turned into a shit show because it was centered completely around LeBron. He was basically the GM right? That's what ran Kyrie's ass off. And that's on LeBron

Fair points in that last paragraph, but not sure how that reflects on LeBron's legacy as one of the best (the best?) players ever.

 

[SJ76]

Fair points in that last paragraph, but not sure how that reflects on LeBron's legacy as one of the best (the best?) players ever.

Because we get this thread every two months like LeBron has finally passed MJ. The reasons are:

1) because his individual stats are so awesome
2) because he will have more titles if he had help


Maybe he wants to be on shit teams and light up the stat categories more than win titles? Because he knows he will never catch Jordans six titles. Different ages of basketball for sure but if the common goal is to win titles, no way 2 superstar players walk away from each other unless they hate each other. These guys won a championship together. Maybe LeBron is frustrated after Durrant went to Golden State and broke the league?

LeBron is a great player but he's no Jordan. Stats are not going to prove that either way. The eye test does

 

[msgkings322]

Because we get this thread every two months like LeBron has finally passed MJ. The reasons are:

1) because his individual stats are so awesome
2) because he will have more titles if he had help


Maybe he wants to be on shit teams and light up the stat categories more than win titles? Because he knows he will never catch Jordans six titles. Different ages of basketball for sure but if the common goal is to win titles, no way 2 superstar players walk away from each other unless they hate each other. These guys won a championship together. Maybe LeBron is frustrated after Durrant went to Golden State and broke the league?

LeBron is a great player but he's no Jordan. Stats are not going to prove that either way. The eye test does

Actually there's no way to 'prove' any of these debates like best team ever or best player ever. There's no proof just arguments based on fandom, what you prefer, how the different players made you feel, etc. And that's great, we're all sports nerds who get off on arguing this stuff. But the eye test works for LeBron too, youve never seen a player with his physical skillset ever before and that includes Jordan. Shaq was like that. Magic. Curry too. These are all time greats and there's no way to 'prove' the best. Nor should there be.

 

[DorianRo]

Wasn't possible back then because of free agency structure.

As for Wade, the year before LeBron he averaged 26.6, 4.8 and 6.5. Their first year together it was 25.5


There has also never been an era in NBA basketball where the league's best players were more spread out than in the 90s. There were teams with multiple allstars and even multiple HOF players. But, only 1 team with 2 prime superstars. Yes, I do think Pippen was a superstar for a few years, and one who complemented MJ's ball centric ways ideally.

The Bulls were an all time great team. They did not face a legitimate challenger at any point during their 6 Finals' trips aside from '98 against Utah because Pippen and Rodman were diminished.

Maybe the Rockets could have been that challenger, maybe the Magic had Shaq stayed and Penny not gotten hurt. But the reality is that 6-0 is the single most overrated statistic out there as a measure of MJ's individual greatness.

I was always a huge Jordan fan as a kid. I do not think James has passed him yet, and honestly I am not sure he can. But, 1A and 1B is starting to look like a possibility IMO. Maybe that is a copout, but what he is doing is completely unprecedented. He won't win a ring this year, but his status continues to rise daily.

The 93 Suns weren't any good? The 92 Blazers? 97 Jazz? The 96 Sonics? Come onn.. These were all legit teams. Thats not even to mention the farrr better teams than Jordan's team faced en route to the finals compared to LeBron (From the Knicks to the bad Boys, to the Shaq/Penny Lakers to the Pacers, and down the line. And Im not even counting Larry's Celtics in '86 which was arguably the best team ever) . Lebron's Eastern conference competition has been utter trash for much of his career. All the good teams by and large were out west which IMO LeBron has always been afraid to go to. He knows how much better the quality is out there and how much a tougher road it is to get to the finals compared to the East. Look at this year and difference in quality between the top 2-3 seeds in the East compared to the West. NO comparison. Im not even sure the #1 seed in the East could beat the #8 seed in the West

 

[Shanemansj13]

So being the best player and MVP on two championship winning teams means nothing but a guy with a better offensive win share on a team that got knocked out in the second round of the playoffs twice is a lot better, right?

This is getting pathetically hilarious.

One player makes up a team? Just stop. Your posts are becoming more and more worthless

 

[tlance]

The 93 Suns weren't any good? The 92 Blazers? The 96 Sonics? Come onn.. These were all legit teams. Thats not even to mention the farrr better teams than Jordan's team faced en route to the finals compared to LeBron (From the Knicks to the bad Boys, to the Shaq/Penny Lakers and down the line) . Lebron's Eastern conference competition has been utter trash for much of his career

I have addressed this many times.

They were good teams. The Bulls were great. The Bulls should have won all those rings and they did. Just like the Warriors should win today because they are the best team. Nobody is going to hype Curry or KD as GOAT even if they win 8 rings because say it with me:

They are supposed to win. They have the best team. Just like the Bulls did.