When will Lebron pass Jordan?

[desert heat]

They would if he wasn't dead.

right, no money in it.

 

[ellupo]

Seriously?!? That crap was debunked long ago. Just stop. No one says it's all that matters. It's the tiebreaker. All of the all time greats are so good that you can literally make a strong case for any of, at least the top 5, to be GOAT. So titles are the tiebreaker and MJ is 6-0. This even trumps Kareem who also has 6 rings, but also lost 4 times.

Yes seriously?!?!?!?!?! Read the post that I replied to then comment. The post said it was all about championships. Read then post.

 

[SJ76]

He wanted to be the top dog and not toil in LeBron's shadow.

But what caused that? Elite players don't just up and leave a championship team. If both players can't see the value in having each other as teammates then both are too selfish to even deserve a ring.

Lebron needs help but it makes no sense to have a guy like that leave. So the drama was there

 

[The Oldtimer]

Because Kobe isn't better than Lebron. Lebron is, at minimum, the #4 player all time. Kobe falls somewhere between 6 and 10 for most folks. I have him at about #8 all time.

Fair enough, that is what makes the SportsHoopla such a good site. We all have an opinion.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't think it's debatable that Lebron has had a significant talent edge over his teammates than Jordan. But people view that as a detriment, when I don't see it the same way.

Jordan was a one man wrecking crew. His game was not designed nor suited to having other talented players around him. He was ball-centric and that's how he played.

Lebron is more geared towards Magic's type of game, but elevated. That's why people have such a hard time grasping why Lebron should be considered, not necessarily above, but considered up there with Jordan. No one shit's on Magic saying he was only successful because he had Kareem or Worthy. No one says anything about Bird having McHale, Parish, Johnson, etc. But for some reason it's an issue for Lebron, a guy like Magic and Bird who had multi-level skill sets, to have great teammates to have success.

I don't see it as a detriment. My post was in response to someone who made a post trying to pretend that Lebron has had to win titles by himself because he didn't have as much help as MJ did, when that isn't the case at all.

That Cleveland team that he took the finals in his first stint in Cleveland was garbage outside of him, but those Heat teams and the Cleveland teams since his return all have had all star players on them. This current team is the worst one he's had since he left the Cavs the first time and even it is still a bit better than that 1st one.

 

[trojanfan12]

magic didn't get old. kareem retired. he was healthy enough to play another year.

Magic was 32 when he retired. That's old by NBA standards. He still could have played for a 2-3 more seasons, but by then, you could see the decline starting. Kareem was 40.

The rest of your post had literally nothing to do with what I said.

 

[desert heat]

Magic was 32 when he retired. That's old by NBA standards. He still could have played for a 2-3 more seasons, but by then, you could see the decline starting. Kareem was 40.

The rest of your post had literally nothing to do with what I said.

magic was only about 30 when kareem retired. magic retired due to hiv.

the year kareem retired, they went unbeaten in the playoffs until the injuries to scott and magic in the finals.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes seriously?!?!?!?!?! Read the post that I replied to then comment. The post said it was all about championships. Read then post.

No, it didn't. It said that Lebron would pass MJ when he got to 7 titles. That's not saying that it's all about titles. If that were the case, the same poster would have said that Robert Horry is better than MJ.

Even if the poster had directly stated that it was all about titles, your response wasn't any better.

 

[trojanfan12]

magic was only about 30 when kareem retired. magic retired due to hiv.

the year kareem retired, they went unbeaten in the playoffs until the injuries to scott and magic in the finals.

What the hell does how old Magic was when Kareem retired have to do with how old Magic was when he retired?

Bottom line is, the Lakers and Celtics got old and guys started retiring. It's not like they all just up and left as FA's. Or the FO's of both teams decided to break up contending teams because they weren't getting enough credit for the titles ala the Bulls FO in the 90's.

 

[desert heat]

What the hell does how old Magic was when Kareem retired have to do with how old Magic was when he retired?

Bottom line is, the Lakers and Celtics got old and guys started retiring. It's not like they all just up and left as FA's. Or the FO's of both teams decided to break up contending teams because they weren't getting enough credit for the titles ala the Bulls FO in the 90's.

i'm sure what hell the point is of any your posts. the lakers and celtics broke up allowing the bulls to win championships, period. nobody said they broke up due to FA.

the lakers were the best team in the league the year kareem retired, and magic retired prematurely because of hiv, not because he was physically unable to play.

 

[trojanfan12]

i'm sure what hell the point is of any your posts. the lakers and celtics broke up allowing the bulls to win championships, period. nobody said they broke up due to FA.

Again, they got old. Saying they broke up implies that they left via FA or were traded, which wasn't the case. Even if Kareem had stuck around for 2 more years and Magic never got HIV and Bird didn't have to be in traction before and after every game, their runs were over.

The year that the Lakers lost to MJ's Bulls in the finals, they had no business being there. They weren't even the best team in the West, let alone the NBA. All these years later, I still can't figure out how they pulled that off.

When they got there, they lost in 5 games to the Bulls and they would have been swept if not for Sam Perkins hitting a game winning shot.

the lakers were the best team in the league the year kareem retired, and magic retired prematurely because of hiv, not because he was physically unable to play.

That's debatable. They definitely weren't after he retired. Just because Magic retired because of HIV doesn't mean he wasn't old or hadn't started to decline.

 

[SJ76]

I don't see it as a detriment. My post was in response to someone who made a post trying to pretend that Lebron has had to win titles by himself because he didn't have as much help as MJ did, when that isn't the case at all.

That Cleveland team that he took the finals in his first stint in Cleveland was garbage outside of him, but those Heat teams and the Cleveland teams since his return all have had all star players on them. This current team is the worst one he's had since he left the Cavs the first time and even it is still a bit better than that 1st one.

But is Lebron responsible somewhat for Kyrie leaving? Was it both of them? Elite players just don't walk away from titles. Maybe the East is weak, but Kyrie leaving is mysterious especially when you trade him to Boston.

I can only listen to Lebron needs help for so long.. Is the man's pride so large that he thought Kyrie could walk and he'd still have a shot at the title? Because the only title Cleveland has, happened because of some luck and Kyrie just as much as Lebron. See the previous year. Obviously something wasn't right in that locker room which caused Uncle Drew to bounce

 

[GNG]

But what caused that? Elite players don't just up and leave a championship team. If both players can't see the value in having each other as teammates then both are too selfish to even deserve a ring.

Lebron needs help but it makes no sense to have a guy like that leave. So the drama was there

Kyrie has a difficult time staying healthy... How many seasons has he been out with injury?

 

[desert heat]

Again, they got old. Saying they broke up implies that they left via FA or were traded, which wasn't the case. Even if Kareem had stuck around for 2 more years and Magic never got HIV and Bird didn't have to be in traction before and after every game, their runs were over.

The year that the Lakers lost to MJ's Bulls in the finals, they had no business being there. They weren't even the best team in the West, let alone the NBA. All these years later, I still can't figure out how they pulled that off.

When they got there, they lost in 5 games to the Bulls and they would have been swept if not for Sam Perkins hitting a game winning shot.

the world will never know what had happened had magic not retired with hiv. the younger players were maturing and the team was looking very good. their games were looking like track meets.

eldon campbell stepped up and the lakers played their hearts against portland. that's how they beat them. unfortunately, they had nothing left for the finals.

 

[trojanfan12]

But is Lebron responsible somewhat for Kyrie leaving? Was it both of them? Elite players just don't walk away from titles. Maybe the East is weak, but Kyrie leaving is mysterious especially when you trade him to Boston.

I can only listen to Lebron needs help for so long.. Is the man's pride so large that he thought Kyrie could walk and he'd still have a shot at the title? Because the only title Cleveland has, happened because of some luck and Kyrie just as much as Lebron. See the previous year. Obviously something wasn't right in that locker room which caused Uncle Drew to bounce

I don't think Lebron had anything directly to do with Kyrie leaving, but he was the reason Kyrie left.

By that I mean, it's not like Lebron went to management and said get rid of that guy or did anything intentionally to drive Kyrie away. Or even that Lebron was like Westbrook and wouldn't share the ball.

Kyrie wanted to be "the man" and that's how things were being set up for him. Kyrie was going to be the face of the franchise and the team was going to be built around him. Then, Lebron got homesick, returned to Cleveland and just like that, it was no longer Kyrie's team.

 

[trojanfan12]

the world will never know what had happened had magic not retired with hiv. the younger players were maturing and the team was looking very good. their games were looking like track meets.

Not really. Been a Laker fan my whole life and that team was done. Showtime was over before Magic retired. Sure, they would have still been a viable team and would have made the playoffs every year. They might have even made a WCF or 2. But their title winning days were over.

eldon campbell stepped up and the lakers played their hearts against portland. that's how they beat them. unfortunately, they had nothing left for the finals.

Yeah, that's about the only thing I can think of as to why the Lakers were able to win that series. Portland was hands down better. But Magic really was magic and pulled a proverbial rabbit out of his hat that season.

The fact they were gassed by the finals just shows that they were getting old. It was an amazing run and I enjoyed it as much as just about any title run they had before or after. But they really had no business being there.

The Bulls wore Magic out by picking him up full court pretty much that whole series.

 

[SJ76]

Kyrie has a difficult time staying healthy... How many seasons has he been out with injury?

How many titles has Cleveland got without him? "Lebron needs help" remember?

 

[SJ76]

I don't think Lebron had anything directly to do with Kyrie leaving, but he was the reason Kyrie left.

By that I mean, it's not like Lebron went to management and said get rid of that guy or did anything intentionally to drive Kyrie away. Or even that Lebron was like Westbrook and wouldn't share the ball.

Kyrie wanted to be "the man" and that's how things were being set up for him. Kyrie was going to be the face of the franchise and the team was going to be built around him. Then, Lebron got homesick, returned to Cleveland and just like that, it was no longer Kyrie's team.

 

[GNG]

How many titles has Cleveland got without him? "Lebron needs help" remember?

So what's your point?

 

[SJ76]

Sorry I just can't buy 2 elite players winning a title together and separating 2 years later because 1 wanted to be the man. It's about winning titles or it's not. If the latter is the case, they are both idiots.