What's the deal with Von Miller?

[cdumler7]

Broncos are running into the SB winner problem where everyone wants top dollars. We'll see how it works out, so far don't think it's worked out at all for the Broncos.

I guess we can all view this differently. Essentially so far they have lost Malik Jackson to a huge contract that will net them a 3rd round pick, Trevathan who will net them a 4th or 5th round pick, Osweiler who will net them a 3rd round pick. I guess you can include Manning in that as well.

They also then have 4 new starters on the OL but does anybody really think that is a bad thing with how bad the Broncos OL was last year? They then signed Okung to a very team friendly deal. I would say Okung is a step up from Clady in the sense that at least Okung plays part of a season where Clady has missed entire seasons. They have replaced a 3rd string RT with Stephenson. Have to see how that works out. Inside they have two younger players replacing two guys that were struggling to stay healthy last year. So OL wise have to see but I'm not sure they can be worse than last year's unit if they stay healthy.

QB wise have to see how that goes. Osweiler and Manning didn't light the world on fire. So the players lost on offense not like they were not replaceable. Throw in I would say the players on the offense now fit Kubiak's system much better. That was part of the problem last year was the team was playing a weird hybrid system where they tried to combine both Kubiak's and Manning's system and it just didn't work.

Defensively Trevathan and Malik were great players. So chance the unit takes a bit of a step back. They still have the pass rush group together with the two back up players now ready for year 2 of actually playing in this league. They still have the secondary together that was voted the top secondary in football last year. They still have one of the two ILB's and 2/3rd of the DL that dominated plus a big chunk of the rotational guys from last year.

Still every team that wins and sees guys go it does come down to draft picks and how they step in. Nobody knows how much the draft picks from this year or last will perform as not many of them from last year's group got a ton of playing time. Many of them were injured for part or most of the year. So year two can they step in and play well?

 

[cdumler7]

RightVon just didn't want his picture taken with a white dude

Like I said I'm pretty certain Von Miller doesn't even run his social media. So who knows if he even posted the picture or not. Even if he did my guess is it was at the advice from his agent to try and get the Broncos attention a bit and try to get them to bump up the guaranteed money. Again this happens every year with FT players. This is the one negotiating tactic they have against the team.

 

[chf]

Honestly wouldn't mind too much. Helps get rid of all the ads that so many sites rely on for revenue and like you said maybe brings back some journalistic integrity. Still this is the world we live in and just hope that people can figure out how to weed through all the crap to find maybe the few pieces of information that are important. Such as the Von Miller crop of Elway out of the picture. First off I'm pretty sure Von Miller doesn't run his own Social Media. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was his agent saying this is a nice negotiating tactic to try and show the team we are not happy with the last offer. Both sides try to use the media to their advantage. Such as I'm sure the Broncos are the ones who released the info that they offered Von Miller the highest paid defensive contract in NFL history. Gets fans on their side and puts pressure on Von Miller. So then Von Miller's side releases the guaranteed part of the contract to show the Broncos low-balled him (honestly they were not that far off. Just how things go with these contract negotiations.

Speaking as someone whose industry (TV) is now going through what print and radio and music have gone through for the last 15 years, I can just advise that you don't hold your breath.

Nobody knows where the model is going, certainly not me. But the old model of journalism and TV broadcasting is dying and will be replaced.

I hope (and actually do think) that eventually something good will replace it, but it's going to be a bumpy ride, and we're going to endure a lot of swill in the meantime.

You're probably right about Miller not being the guy who cropped the picture, but don't kid yourself. Young people today have grown up with social media since they were born, and are surprisingly able (to old farts like me at least) to be media savvy.

How old is Miller now? 26?

But yeah, his agent(s)(y) is probably pulling the strings.

Kinda' brilliant since they're getting the news cycle play, but no-one can prove it, and they can deny it (oh it was just an oversight etc)

 

[cdumler7]

Speaking as someone whose industry (TV) is now going through what print and radio and music have gone through for the last 15 years, I can just advise that you don't hold your breath.

Nobody knows where the model is going, certainly not me. But the old model of journalism and TV broadcasting is dying and will be replaced.

I hope (and actually do think) that eventually something good will replace it, but it's going to be a bumpy ride, and we're going to endure a lot of swill in the meantime.

You're probably right about Miller not being the guy who cropped the picture, but don't kid yourself. Young people today have grown up with social media since they were born, and are surprisingly able (to old farts like me at least) to be media savvy.

How old is Miller now? 26?

But yeah, his agent(s)(y) is probably pulling the strings.

Kinda' brilliant since they're getting the news cycle play, but no-one can prove it, and they can deny it (oh it was just an oversight etc)

I agree it really was a pretty brilliant move. Really little flap towards them and definitely gets the media talking about it and the Broncos attention. I do think it was intentional but I also don't think it shows that Von Miller is ticked at Elway and wants nothing to do with the Broncos anymore like some of the media is playing it out to be.

Also I really do hope that whatever good is coming next media wise hurries up. I keep thinking it can't get worse than what we have but then we see Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump as our two choices for President partly on the back of the media pushing those two so much. I keep thinking at some point they are going to say they punked the entire country but unfortunately I don't think that is the case.

 

[chf]

Also I really do hope that whatever good is coming next media wise hurries up. I keep thinking it can't get worse than what we have but then we see Hilary Clinton and Donald Trump as our two choices for President partly on the back of the media pushing those two so much. I keep thinking at some point they are going to say they punked the entire country but unfortunately I don't think that is the case.

Careful now. The media gives us what we want. Trump has gotten a year's worth (billions) of free publicity because the American public tunes in to watch Trump.

Markets are metered by and large now. So they don't just know what programs ratings are, they know from second to second how ratings are spiking or declining.

Trump is a money-maker for CNN/FOX/MSNBC/ rest of the alphabet crew.

That's what they're in business for - making money for their shareholders.

If Gary Johnson could pull those ratings, they'd all be covering him every hour of every day.

The 'golden age of TV news', Edward R. Murrow, Cronkite etc - all came about because of social engineering. Broadcasters were given their license to charge money for ads, but there was a * that came with it, providing X number of hours of news/public affairs at a money loss.

That went out the window in the interests of freedom, and law of unintended consequences, we get the Trumpgasm 24/7 even on the supposedly in the bag for the Dems outfits like CNN.

So anyway, I'm as critical of the media not fulfilling it's watchdog role anymore as anybody, but the media's #1 mission since the teeth were pulled from the station licensing requirements, has been making as much profit as possible.

So why do they give us shitty politics and shitty talent shows and shitty reality shows? Because we love them, and watch the fuck out of them.

 

[chf]

heh, sorry everyone for derailing a perfectly good Von Miller thread with my bather about the media. I'm bored as fuck.

 

[cdumler7]

Careful now. The media gives us what we want. Trump has gotten a year's worth (billions) of free publicity because the American public tunes in to watch Trump.

Markets are metered by and large now. So they don't just know what programs ratings are, they know from second to second how ratings are spiking or declining.

Trump is a money-maker for CNN/FOX/MSNBC/ rest of the alphabet crew.

That's what they're in business for - making money for their shareholders.

If Gary Johnson could pull those ratings, they'd all be covering him every hour of every day.

The 'golden age of TV news', Edward R. Murrow, Cronkite etc - all came about because of social engineering. Broadcasters were given their license to charge money for ads, but there was a * that came with it, providing X number of hours of news/public affairs at a money loss.

That went out the window in the interests of freedom, and law of unintended consequences, we get the Trumpgasm 24/7 even on the supposedly in the bag for the Dems outfits like CNN.

So anyway, I'm as critical of the media not fulfilling it's watchdog role anymore as anybody, but the media's #1 mission since the teeth were pulled from the station licensing requirements, has been making as much profit as possible.

So why do they give us shitty politics and shitty talent shows and shitty reality shows? Because we love them, and watch the fuck out of them.

Everybody says they hate to watch a trainwreck but when it comes down to it we can't take our eyes off of it. I do know profits drive the industry which is why we see more click bait type titles or the whole "Unnamed sources" thing popping up left and right. It is why we see such altered photos to fit the narrative. Just unfortunate that money drives most things.

 

[Oldschool739]

Well Miller has been an All-Pro 4 of the 5 seasons he has been in the NFL. So to say he has only been good most of the years instead of elite is kind of underselling what most in the league have seen out of him. I mean he keeps getting voted by actual experts to be the top OLB in the NFL almost every single season or at least top-2.

He's been injured several times, and I don't recall him being voted best OLB in the league every yr...I don't think you can verify that with anything but your opinion...
But never the less, point is that last yr was his highlight yr and no one can guarantee that he can repeat that, and thus demanding over 70 mil in 3 yrs is more than he is worth to the team...
And I for one don't think he'll get it from Elway....
If he decides to sit out part of the yr in protest, he hurts the team.....If he lays down on his performance in protest, he hurts the team....
If he gets the 70+mil he hurts the team, so it's not a good situation for the Donkeys at all, any way you look at it rationally.....

 

[darken65]

He's worth every penny.

 

[Oldschool739]

That's the beauty of a hamstring no one can tell if yo're faking. There are no signs. All you need to do is make sure favor the injured leg hahaha.
As I mentioned he needs to play enough to prove his worth yet let Denver know if they don't want to pay him and or try the tag for a second year they may have more health issues to deal with.
It's playing with fire no doubt but a bargaining technique that has worked in the past. The team will either negotiate or let him walk/trade.
Denver needs to pay him his wort which is top $.

I think Elway knows that game pretty well and how to expose it !!
I don't think Miller or any OLB deserves more than the contract he was offered, 58mil guaranteed and 114mil 6 yr deal is a whole lotta moola and a risky offer for a high injury game player...

 

[Southieinnc]

I don't like the way top tier player contracts work. I hope more stars start requiring the whole thing guaranteed, even if it's at fewer years. Would make it a lot easier to compare values and would make NFL contracts much easier to understand for casuals.

You are guaranteed to be the smartest Arizona fan on here. Welcome to SportsHoopla!!!!!!

 

[Manster7588]

You are guaranteed to be the smartest Arizona fan on here. Welcome to SportsHoopla!!!!!!

Yes, but the has been set low.

 

[jarntt]

Kinda both. He had his open market value. Top FA at any position gets paid well. Denver was in a situation where going higher meant cap constraint issues. Keeping Ware, signing help for the O-line, future negotiations for Miller/Marshall/Sanders and others, keeping that 5-6 mil of cap space for a mid-season move to help solve an injury situation or underperforming player (a-la ability to sign Evan Mathis around this time last year or add Vernon Davis), etc...

He really was pushing for Brock as even with the deal most everyone reports Denver had on the table, he would have been eating into some of those things. But the Texans cap situation basically allowed them to be able to write a blank check for Osweiler, and Elway just couldn't compete with that. Lets say they dug down even further. Didn't match CJ Anderson's deal or cut Ware or didn't sign Stephenson or Clady or whatever moves and upped their deal more.

The only thing preventing the Texans from topping it would be the amount of cash in Bob McNairs bank account, their guys coming up next year for free agency aren't Miller/Marshall/Sanders, but Demps/Wilfork (at 36 yo)/Cecil Shorts. Even after Osweiller's new deal, the Texans have only Dallas with more players signed through 2017 (and currently have 22+ mil more cap space next year than them).

I am fine with Elway holding there, he had a different team situation than Houston financially.

I think you are leaving out one huge piece though. He didn't prove to anyone that he is a good NFL QB. Had he done that Denver would have found a way to keep him and they were the ones that saw him every day. Time will tell on this, but I bet Denver already went much higher than they thought he was worth out of desperation, then Hou takes it to a level where Denver says "take 'em". I like Brock, but the risk far outweighed the likely reward here. QB or not, every player has a max value.

 

[jarntt]

I thought is was only a 2M difference. Its a QB you pay it no matter what. Now Denver has Sanchez. Was it really worth the 2M savings? If Brock was still on Denver they win that division.

So where do you stop? Then Hou goes two higher, then Denver goes two more, etc. Denver may have already been $5M over what they thought he should get. Don't let another team tell you the value of your own player.

 

[jarntt]

Oh it has been broadcast a lot this year as of all that happened last year. On June 12th last year Dez Bryant told media folk that he would sit out the season if he didn't get the deal he wanted that he wouldn't play under the FT.

I always laughed at those comments about Dez. The kid just flat out LOVES Football. He shows up at Rookie camp and tries to get on the field and throws the ball around for hours. Dez wasn't sitting out anything. It doesn't always come out the right way, but he has more passion for the game than pretty much anyone.

 

[jarntt]

That's the beauty of a hamstring no one can tell if yo're faking. There are no signs. All you need to do is make sure favor the injured leg hahaha.
As I mentioned he needs to play enough to prove his worth yet let Denver know if they don't want to pay him and or try the tag for a second year they may have more health issues to deal with.
It's playing with fire no doubt but a bargaining technique that has worked in the past. The team will either negotiate or let him walk/trade.
Denver needs to pay him his wort which is top $.

I don't think Von Miller is an asshat and only an asshat would do that

 

[Broncos6482]

This is the same song and dance you see every year with player's that are tagged IMO. Rumors of contract details, tense negotiations, offers being pulled, hard feelings, it happens just about every year. And nearly every time, the player and team eventually reach an agreement on a long term deal.

So if you're Von Miller, what do you do? Sit out for the entire season so you can be a free agent next year, but lose a year of your prime? Sign the tag but don't sign a long term extension? The tag would only be a $14 million deal, and the Broncos could tag him again the next year, essentially tagging him for 2 years in a row for less than the guaranteed money the Broncos have already offered him. Neither of those sound like appealing choices.

Now if you're the Broncos, how smart is it to piss off your franchise player? And do you really want to torpedo your championship hopes by not getting a long term deal done with your best player? The player that also happens to be Elway's very first draft choice? And that's not going to look good for potential future free agents, that the Broncos are cheap and won't reward players who have earned it.

So both sides have a lot of incentive to get a long term deal done. But they also have a month left to do it, and they will both still want to get the best deal possible for themselves. Von might be a little pissed at Elway right now (hence the cropped photo), but I don't think it's anything that can't be mended with a few million dollars. And for what it's worth, he came out to the ring ceremony yesterday and he retweeted the Broncos official twitter about winning another Super Bowl. So he doesn't seem that upset at the organization.

My prediction, they'll sign a long term deal shortly before the deadline, that has more guaranteed money, but still isn't as much as Von is currently asking for.

 

[SonnyCID]

The media always plays up these situations to seem more contentious than they really are.

The fact of the matter is that there is 7 months of offseason. Why would any tagged superstar player sign early when you're only going to receive more favorable offers as the season nears? Unless the team comes extremely strong with their initial offer (which doesn't happen when a tag is involved), you'd be a fool to not just let it play out, stay out of trouble, stay in shape, and maximize your value through negotiations.

Call t greed. Call it selfishness. But if you were an agent or financial advisor for a star player, you'd recommend letting it play out, because the offer on the table from the team is not going to go down, only up or stay where it is. As long as he keeps his nose clean, Miller has nothing to lose by playing this out and being patient.

 

[cdumler7]

He's been injured several times, and I don't recall him being voted best OLB in the league every yr...I don't think you can verify that with anything but your opinion...
But never the less, point is that last yr was his highlight yr and no one can guarantee that he can repeat that, and thus demanding over 70 mil in 3 yrs is more than he is worth to the team...
And I for one don't think he'll get it from Elway....
If he decides to sit out part of the yr in protest, he hurts the team.....If he lays down on his performance in protest, he hurts the team....
If he gets the 70+mil he hurts the team, so it's not a good situation for the Donkeys at all, any way you look at it rationally.....

He missed one game his Rookie year with a broken finger and then tore his ACL during the 2013 season late in the year. Otherwise no injuries. So pretty much 4 of the 5 years he has played every game possible.

Now onto the whole best OLB part of this. All-Pro means they are only voting in the top-2 players at the position. So far 4 of the 5 years Von Miller has been voted in among that group of 2. The one year he missed was the year he missed half the season. So while it is my opinion it is also the opinion of the All-Pro voters, PFF, and just about every analytical site out there.

Also last year was not even his best season as a Bronco. I would argue 2012 was his best year when he had 18.5 sacks for the season, 6 Forced Fumbles, his highest tackle total of his career and so on. So even though this last year was great I think it would be hard to argue that it was actually his best regular season. Now playoffs yeah when you add that into the equation then yes this past year was his best year but any year you win the Super Bowl and you are a big reason why then it should be considered your best year.

 

[darken65]

Just pay the man godammit!31 other teams are waiting for a player of his caliber.