What's the deal with Von Miller?

[Rockinkuwait]

I don't like the way top tier player contracts work. I hope more stars start requiring the whole thing guaranteed, even if it's at fewer years. Would make it a lot easier to compare values and would make NFL contracts much easier to understand for casuals.

It would make it easier to see but it would truly screw over a lot of players, especially the backs. Gone would be the guaranteed 2 years and a 3 mil roster bonus in year 3. That's where the player can have the best shot at getting a bit overpaid to keep on that 3rd year. It costs 3 mil no matter what, he isn't worth 8 mil of his year 3 deal, but we are only paying 5 more to keep him (losing the 3 mil either way), and he is worth that. Nope, now you have to guarantee the full 8 mil in year 3 when he signs the deal, so teams only offer him 2 years fully guaranteed instead of 2 and a third years.

I think you'd see a LOT more free agents, which means a lot less keeping teams together, a lot less able to follow your favorite player on your team, etc.

Otherwise teams would be stuck paying past players no longer in the league 1/3 of their cap space every season (Imagine if Albert Haynesworth's deal was guaranteed. Redskins 2016 season would be their first year not paying him any more money). Shaun Alexander would have been under contract for the Seahawks SB win. These kinds of things. So what you are doing is removing any hope the player will be still playing under that deal past 2 years in most cases. Instead of the team picking up year 3,4,5 he's a free agent again and again.


And the QB/O-line would make out like bandits. The positions where an injury or less athleticism as years add on is less likely to degrade the position. There's where you can guarantee more years with less chance of it biting you in the ass. So we'd see Rodgers still get his 5 years, 125 mil deal, completely guaranteed (except for legal issues), and AJ Green gets 2 years guaranteed at 30 mil at best.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The reports are Miller wants more guaranteed money up front or further into the contract because he doesn't want Denver to dump him when he's 30(he's 27 now) an be without all the extra money. I think he's fine with the total amount he just wants most of it guaranteed.

Guaranteed money is everything for these guy's .. Elway is pretty shroud when it comes to negotiating, I don't think Von is gonna let himself get shamboozled ... He's the best pass rusher in the game right now and he knows it ... If he ends up getting the franchise tag any idea what his guaranteed money and salary would be for next season ?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Guaranteed money is everything for these guy's .. Elway is pretty shroud when it comes to negotiating, I don't think Von is gonna let himself get shamboozled ... He's the best pass rusher in the game right now and he knows it ... If he ends up getting the franchise tag any idea what his guaranteed money and salary would be for next season ?

I believe it is 120% of the previous tag... So 17 mil. And year 3 of the franchise is top 5 of the highest paid position (QB), so then it would be a monster jump to the 22 mil type range.

The issue is where to draw that line on guaranteed money. He hasn't hit the open market which makes a Suh type guarantee hard to get with that franchise tag hanging out there as an option. Heck, from the sounds of it, even Oliver Vernon guaranteed money isn't getting found.

So his only realistic option is to stay away, act upset, not sign the tag until the last minute. And of course the pressure of not getting a real deal done which would likely lower his year 1 cap hit from the franchise tag number and give the Bronco's more cap room to work on new deals with Marshall and Sanders.



I don't like the tag myself, wish it was a 2 year guarantee on it. More what a franchise player is truly worth. But that's something the NFLPA needs to bargain for at the table in the next CBA, and it only affects maybe a dozen players a year, so it may not really be too hot of a topic among the NFLPA players as a whole (depending what they give up for a change with it), just the elite guys (almost everyone in the league would love the franchise tag, just the top 5% that get it or threatened with it don't).

I've seen some guys write that the Von should sit out, which makes no sense for him personally, that's throwing away 14 million dollars and risking his career for everyone else who aren't going to be paying him to do that.

 

[cdumler7]

What we are seeing is the usual FT crap. Heck last year Dez Bryant was telling the media he was going to sit out if he didn't get something like $15 million a year. When dealing with these giant contracts like this they do take some time because there is a lot more language a part of the contract than for a lot of the smaller contract players on the team.

Really at this point the Broncos and Miller's camp are not as far off as some of the media have made it sound. Right now the Broncos only want 2 years of the deal fully guaranteed where Miller's side wants 3. They have gotten 2 of the 3 main parts of the deal done in figuring out total value and number of years. Both sides will dig in for a week or so and then maybe try to come back if neither side has cracked and see what they can do. In the end I would bet the Broncos go ahead and guarantee the first 3 years of the deal or at least show that they would make it very hard to cut him because of the dead money say guaranteeing 2/3rds of the 3rd year.

 

[Oldschool739]

Can't find any threads on the subject? Is he really playing hard to get or is it all media SportsHoopla?

Pro football talk has several articles on the matter....Seems as though Miller was offered 58mil injury guaranteed on a 114mil contract but wants over 70mil guaranteed over 3 yrs, so he took a pic from their white house visit and cropped Elway out of it in an instagram he posted...Feeling is that he is on the outs with Elway over the contract....
They are at a stand off at this point, Elway basically saying by his action of pulling the 114mil 6yr deal technically off the table, you take the deal or play under the franchise tag this season for 14mil and if you get injured we can cut you, or take our secured deal that we offered.....My money is on Elway in this one, that was a monstrous deal for a LB and just because a player has an exceptionally good yr and is a top tier player, doesn't mean he can do it every yr or is exempt from injury that would cripple the team cap wise....
It's not like he is a franchise QB anyway !!!!

 

[Manster7588]

What we are seeing is the usual FT crap. Heck last year Dez Bryant was telling the media he was going to sit out if he didn't get something like $15 million a year. When dealing with these giant contracts like this they do take some time because there is a lot more language a part of the contract than for a lot of the smaller contract players on the team.

Really at this point the Broncos and Miller's camp are not as far off as some of the media have made it sound. Right now the Broncos only want 2 years of the deal fully guaranteed where Miller's side wants 3. They have gotten 2 of the 3 main parts of the deal done in figuring out total value and number of years. Both sides will dig in for a week or so and then maybe try to come back if neither side has cracked and see what they can do. In the end I would bet the Broncos go ahead and guarantee the first 3 years of the deal or at least show that they would make it very hard to cut him because of the dead money say guaranteeing 2/3rds of the 3rd year.

Miller's side also said he wanted 22M per, if that's true it means he sacrificed some, if Elway and the Broncos don't budge soon that gap you're saying isn't that big will grow into the Grand Canyon. If you ask me the gap is already bigger than you say it is otherwise Von doesn't crop Elway out of his Whitehouse photo.

 

[cdumler7]

Miller's side also said he wanted 22M per, if that's true it means he sacrificed some, if Elway and the Broncos don't budge soon that gap you're saying isn't that big will grow into the Grand Canyon. If you ask me the gap is already bigger than you say it is otherwise Von doesn't crop Elway out of his Whitehouse photo.

Are we really going to read that much into a picture? Come on let's not go too crazy. Every year this same thing happens. Players dig in and so do teams and the media go crazy saying the player is going to sit for a year. Yet usually what happens is the player gets a contract and everybody moves on. So not going to read too much into negotiations 5 weeks out from the deadline when most of these deals get done the last week they can.

Also yes the 6-years/$114 million part of the contract has been agreed upon by both sides. Now I guess Miller can change his mind now and come back and say he doesn't agree with that but almost all major media outlets have said the 2 sides are fully agreed upon the length and total value of the contract. It is actually $114.5 and that comes out to be around $19.08 million per year. That puts him just a hair above Suh as the top paid defensive player in overall per year basis but doesn't completely destroy the team either. Still the guaranteed money is what matters most so have to see what they figure out that way. Still both sides have stayed very civil through this so I see a deal eventually getting done.

 

[Oldschool739]

He wants "Suh" guaranteed money. He's gonna get it too.

I don't think so, if Elway don't cave, he's got him on the franchise tag this yr and next unless Miller sits out this yr and makes nothing....Elway has the upper hand IMO, and Suh got way over paid....

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Miller is a smart cat. If Denver tags him he'll likely have a bunch of minor injuries (hamstring, turf toe...) things no one can claim you're faking. He'll play enough to show he can still get it done and deserves a big contract?

 

[Manster7588]

Are we really going to read that much into a picture? Come on let's not go too crazy. Every year this same thing happens. Players dig in and so do teams and the media go crazy saying the player is going to sit for a year. Yet usually what happens is the player gets a contract and everybody moves on. So not going to read too much into negotiations 5 weeks out from the deadline when most of these deals get done the last week they can.

Also yes the 6-years/$114 million part of the contract has been agreed upon by both sides. Now I guess Miller can change his mind now and come back and say he doesn't agree with that but almost all major media outlets have said the 2 sides are fully agreed upon the length and total value of the contract. It is actually $114.5 and that comes out to be around $19.08 million per year. That puts him just a hair above Suh as the top paid defensive player in overall per year basis but doesn't completely destroy the team either. Still the guaranteed money is what matters most so have to see what they figure out that way. Still both sides have stayed very civil through this so I see a deal eventually getting done.

Well considering reports are Miller wants in the neighborhood of 30M guaranteed and it's easier just to post the uncropped picture, I'd say yes.
You can ignore it if you like, but that pic wasn't cropped by accident.

 

[cdumler7]

Well considering reports are Miller wants in the neighborhood of 30M guaranteed and it's easier just to post the uncropped picture, I'd say yes.
You can ignore it if you like, but that pic wasn't cropped by accident.

Like I said this is just part of this whole process. Both sides try to get a leg up in the negotiations. Heck last year at this time Dez Bryant was telling the media that he was planning on sitting out the season unless all of his contract demands were met. Eventually the two sides were able to sit down and get something worked out. So no I am not going to read too much into a picture when we have seen all these things happen before where the player maybe acts hurt by the process but then still signs a deal and sings praises about the team and the process.

 

[Manster7588]

Like I said this is just part of this whole process. Both sides try to get a leg up in the negotiations. Heck last year at this time Dez Bryant was telling the media that he was planning on sitting out the season unless all of his contract demands were met. Eventually the two sides were able to sit down and get something worked out. So no I am not going to read too much into a picture when we have seen all these things happen before where the player maybe acts hurt by the process but then still signs a deal and sings praises about the team and the process.

I'm not saying the relationship is shattered, I'm just saying if there was no friction Von doesn't crop Elway out.
Last year I dont recall neither Dez or Dallas saying or doing any negative towards the other.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Like I said this is just part of this whole process. Both sides try to get a leg up in the negotiations. Heck last year at this time Dez Bryant was telling the media that he was planning on sitting out the season unless all of his contract demands were met. Eventually the two sides were able to sit down and get something worked out. So no I am not going to read too much into a picture when we have seen all these things happen before where the player maybe acts hurt by the process but then still signs a deal and sings praises about the team and the process.

So we don't have to relive the Oswieller saga. Cdumbler how much is too much for Elway to pay Von? That way we know what you consider teams "overpaying" price would be?

 

[Broncosr0k]

I thought is was only a 2M difference. Its a QB you pay it no matter what. Now Denver has Sanchez. Was it really worth the 2M savings? If Brock was still on Denver they win that division.

A lot more to it that 2 million. It was 2-3 million difference but the broncos were looking for shorter term contract. Essentially, broncos were not sold on Osweiler and I don't think we saw enough of him to say he would win us the division. He had good games against some top tier teams like bengals, steelers, and patriots but he shit the bed against the raiders and was non-existent in the second half of the steelers games.

I would not be surprised if we can get similar production out of buttfumble and save those millions.

Also, an Osweiler contract would have made our FA a lot different, like non-existent because of cap.

 

[Broncosr0k]

Sounds like Von Miller did not mind the 115 million overall portion. The sticking point is guaranteed money.

These contracts are a little nuts. Somewhere in the 115-120 overall with about 65 guaranteed should be plenty. Beyond that he is really going to start hurting the team instead of helping.

 

[cdumler7]

So we don't have to relive the Oswieller saga. Cdumbler how much is too much for Elway to pay Von? That way we know what you consider teams "overpaying" price would be?

I would say anything over $21 million a year would be overpaying. It is rumored Von Miller started with wanting $22 million but really right now we know for the most part what the overall and yearly salary will be. Looks like just above $19 million a year for 6-years. Which is about what the top Defensive players are making these days. He would be the highest paid defensive player.

Really though this deal comes down to guaranteed money, and honestly how that guaranteed money is divided up. Part of the problem with what we are seeing with these top defensive players is that teams are giving them a very team friendly cap hit the first year and seeing the next few years be very difficult because heck they are making more cap hit wise than many of the top QB's in the league. So that is what I am interested in most is what the 1st year cap hit will be for Von Miller. If they have it shaped like Suh's or Houston's deal of less than $10 million then honestly I will be a bit upset.

Now given the other thing for the Broncos that does help is that right now they are looking at the QB budget and seeing a nice window where they can pay a top player without it destroying their cap. You look at Miami and they have Suh + Tannehil making $19.5 million a year. The Chiefs have Houston + Smith making like $16-17 million a year. You now have Watt + Osweiler making $18 million. So for the Broncos they are going to have Miller + Lynch at $2 million a year. Broncos definitely need Lynch to pan out to at least an average QB if they are to stay competitive and be able to still surround Lynch and Miller with talent.

 

[cdumler7]

I'm not saying the relationship is shattered, I'm just saying if there was no friction Von doesn't crop Elway out.
Last year I dont recall neither Dez or Dallas saying or doing any negative towards the other.

Oh it has been broadcast a lot this year as of all that happened last year. On June 12th last year Dez Bryant told media folk that he would sit out the season if he didn't get the deal he wanted that he wouldn't play under the FT.

 

[RobBase]

He wants Suh money.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

A lot more to it that 2 million. It was 2-3 million difference but the broncos were looking for shorter term contract.

From the reports I read from everyone (30 mil guaranteed 3 year deal) not really.

Bronco's offered a 3 year deal where they don't get their out until after year 2 (first two guaranteed). Houston offered the same length guaranteed (first two years salaries/bonuses guaranteed only). The 35 mil on years 3 and 4 from Houston are completely unguaranteed for Brock, just as year 3 would be in Denver.

Denver's shorter term deal was about giving Osweiler the chance to hit his next potential career contract sooner.


Basically come year 3 if he's playing below the level his salary justifies, he's out on both contracts after year 2. That's where his guaranteed money falls off and it makes easy financial sense to release him instead.

If at the end of year 2 he is outplaying his contract, he is stuck to it for 2 more years in Houston (or hold out for an extension), just 1 in Denver before he can hit the market (or take the franchise tag). Their shorter deal was about offering him more future flexibility to get paid more.




And "shit the bed" is a bit harsh. He played a lot better than most of the guys on that offense. He wasn't playing well sure, had some missed throws, but it wasn't like he was Mr. Turnover. That Raiders game, he had zero help from the run game and seemed to always be in 3rd and long, 3-4 drops on big plays (Thomas dropping a couple touchdowns, Vernon Davis dropping that easy open 1st down on 4th and 5 that would have put them in range to tie it up again). And as good as Von Miller looked in the SB, Khalil Mack looked better in that game, seriously, with your QB in the end zone you can't let a guy with his speed run straight at brock without even putting on a move. It was almost like Denver was trying to let him get by.

Actually I thought Osweilers worst moments was one of his positives. Rookie or vet finally getting the shot, nearly all have a real "shit the bed" game. Think Brian Griese against the Jets. Just about all of them have one of those games where it isn't just not converting on 3rd down, but absolute nightmare games where you really think he doesn't belong in the league. Osweiler didn't have one of those yet.

 

[deanpet21]

A lot more to it that 2 million. It was 2-3 million difference but the broncos were looking for shorter term contract. Essentially, broncos were not sold on Osweiler and I don't think we saw enough of him to say he would win us the division. He had good games against some top tier teams like bengals, steelers, and patriots but he shit the bed against the raiders and was non-existent in the second half of the steelers games.

I would not be surprised if we can get similar production out of buttfumble and save those millions.

Also, an Osweiler contract would have made our FA a lot different, like non-existent because of cap.

True but the guy is still young an inexperienced. Its just like Cousins. You cant tell me that your happy with Sanchez over Brock. There was a rumor that Brock was pissed when he got benched.