What's the deal with Von Miller?

[Rockinkuwait]

And yeah, the "relationship issues" are always there and rarely seem to be real, only about getting the deal done to their benefit.


I always liked the Lance Briggs in Chicago one. Where he said to the media "I will never play another down for Chicago, I'll do everything that's within my power to not be with this organization"... then poof he signs a 6 year deal... with Chicago.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

. There was a rumor that Brock was pissed when he got benched.

Yeah I heard that one too. The story that Kubiak told him something along the lines of it being his team for better or worse the rest of the year even if Peyton got healthy, and when he went back on his word and benched him, Brock had made his choice to move on. Not sure how much I put into those myself.

 

[Oldschool739]

Miller is a smart cat. If Denver tags him he'll likely have a bunch of minor injuries (hamstring, turf toe...) things no one can claim you're faking. He'll play enough to show he can still get it done and deserves a big contract?

It's not as easy as all that, the injury has to be supported by a doctor or doctors before a player can pull that off....These guys didn't get to billionaires from being stupid and I don't know of any active billionaire players so I'd say they aren't as smart as their bosses....
If Miller puts in a bad yr, it hurts his market value for next yr if they don't franchise him again....
He had a great yr, last season, but other than that, he's been good to very good his whole career IMO....
I don't think Elway will give him a contract that could cripple the team over the next 3 yrs...

 

[Manster7588]

Oh it has been broadcast a lot this year as of all that happened last year. On June 12th last year Dez Bryant told media folk that he would sit out the season if he didn't get the deal he wanted that he wouldn't play under the FT.

Yes we all know he said he'd sit, but the whole time both sides were friendly.

 

[Duffman]

I can't be the only one who thought of this when I read the title of this thread

 

[cdumler7]

Yes we all know he said he'd sit, but the whole time both sides were friendly.

Right and so far Von Miller and Elway have been very friendly. Just last Monday both were talking about how they respected the process and were very optimistic something would get done. Cutting Elway out of a picture at this point doesn't mean much. You can read into it I guess what you want but to me no big deal.

 

[cdumler7]

From the reports I read from everyone (30 mil guaranteed 3 year deal) not really.

Bronco's offered a 3 year deal where they don't get their out until after year 2 (first two guaranteed). Houston offered the same length guaranteed (first two years salaries/bonuses guaranteed only). The 35 mil on years 3 and 4 from Houston are completely unguaranteed for Brock, just as year 3 would be in Denver.

Denver's shorter term deal was about giving Osweiler the chance to hit his next potential career contract sooner.


Basically come year 3 if he's playing below the level his salary justifies, he's out on both contracts after year 2. That's where his guaranteed money falls off and it makes easy financial sense to release him instead.

If at the end of year 2 he is outplaying his contract, he is stuck to it for 2 more years in Houston (or hold out for an extension), just 1 in Denver before he can hit the market (or take the franchise tag). Their shorter deal was about offering him more future flexibility to get paid more.




And "shit the bed" is a bit harsh. He played a lot better than most of the guys on that offense. He wasn't playing well sure, had some missed throws, but it wasn't like he was Mr. Turnover. That Raiders game, he had zero help from the run game and seemed to always be in 3rd and long, 3-4 drops on big plays (Thomas dropping a couple touchdowns, Vernon Davis dropping that easy open 1st down on 4th and 5 that would have put them in range to tie it up again). And as good as Von Miller looked in the SB, Khalil Mack looked better in that game, seriously, with your QB in the end zone you can't let a guy with his speed run straight at brock without even putting on a move. It was almost like Denver was trying to let him get by.

Actually I thought Osweilers worst moments was one of his positives. Rookie or vet finally getting the shot, nearly all have a real "shit the bed" game. Think Brian Griese against the Jets. Just about all of them have one of those games where it isn't just not converting on 3rd down, but absolute nightmare games where you really think he doesn't belong in the league. Osweiler didn't have one of those yet.

You are going by some rumored deals here that contradict other writers though. At this point we really have no clue what the Broncos officially tried to offer Osweiler. Heck if we are going to jump to conclusions then I could jump to the thought that Elway knew with Osweiler's agent not returning calls that the best Elway could do was at least drive Osweiler's contract price up to hurt another team. I mean it has been pretty well documented that Osweiler and his agent cut off all negotiations and conversations with anybody associated with the Broncos at least a couple of weeks before FA started. Usually a pretty big sign that he is moving on. Elway would have known that.

 

[cdumler7]

It's not as easy as all that, the injury has to be supported by a doctor or doctors before a player can pull that off....These guys didn't get to billionaires from being stupid and I don't know of any active billionaire players so I'd say they aren't as smart as their bosses....
If Miller puts in a bad yr, it hurts his market value for next yr if they don't franchise him again....
He had a great yr, last season, but other than that, he's been good to very good his whole career IMO....
I don't think Elway will give him a contract that could cripple the team over the next 3 yrs...

Well Miller has been an All-Pro 4 of the 5 seasons he has been in the NFL. So to say he has only been good most of the years instead of elite is kind of underselling what most in the league have seen out of him. I mean he keeps getting voted by actual experts to be the top OLB in the NFL almost every single season or at least top-2.

 

[Malibu]

Right and so far Von Miller and Elway have been very friendly. Just last Monday both were talking about how they respected the process and were very optimistic something would get done. Cutting Elway out of a picture at this point doesn't mean much. You can read into it I guess what you want but to me no big deal.

I'm sure that ESPN is the reason people are making a big deal over a damn picture. Brainwashed fools will believe what ESPN tells them. Peace.

 

[cdumler7]

I'm sure that ESPN is the reason people are making a big deal over a damn picture. Brainwashed fools will believe what ESPN tells them. Peace.

The media no matter who they are always seem to make a mountain out of a molehill. Unfortunately instead of having journalistic integrity be at the forefront of how a media organization works it is now much more about the number of clicks. ProFootballTalk is probably my least favorite site of any football related media groups. The sensationalize everything and are always using "unnamed sources" to back up their ridiculous articles. They have been called out by just about everybody yet just continue. Heck they did it with Miller by claiming he is planning on sitting out a year or saying that Elway got so upset he pulled the contract off the table and told Miller to play on the Franchise Tag or don't play at all. Ridiculous as no decent GM out there would operate in such a way.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Sources: Miller purposeful with Elway photo crop



Oh oh ...

 

[chf]

The media no matter who they are always seem to make a mountain out of a molehill. Unfortunately instead of having journalistic integrity be at the forefront of how a media organization works it is now much more about the number of clicks. ProFootballTalk is probably my least favorite site of any football related media groups. The sensationalize everything and are always using "unnamed sources" to back up their ridiculous articles. They have been called out by just about everybody yet just continue. Heck they did it with Miller by claiming he is planning on sitting out a year or saying that Elway got so upset he pulled the contract off the table and told Miller to play on the Franchise Tag or don't play at all. Ridiculous as no decent GM out there would operate in such a way.

If people would be wiling to pay for online content, that clickbait shit would dry up. Oh well.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

What we are seeing is the usual FT crap. Heck last year Dez Bryant was telling the media he was going to sit out if he didn't get something like $15 million a year. When dealing with these giant contracts like this they do take some time because there is a lot more language a part of the contract than for a lot of the smaller contract players on the team.

Really at this point the Broncos and Miller's camp are not as far off as some of the media have made it sound. Right now the Broncos only want 2 years of the deal fully guaranteed where Miller's side wants 3. They have gotten 2 of the 3 main parts of the deal done in figuring out total value and number of years. Both sides will dig in for a week or so and then maybe try to come back if neither side has cracked and see what they can do. In the end I would bet the Broncos go ahead and guarantee the first 3 years of the deal or at least show that they would make it very hard to cut him because of the dead money say guaranteeing 2/3rds of the 3rd year.

Got a feeling the Broncos and Miller part ways after next year. I sure could be wrong, but don't see a deal happening here. Players are making more money ever year, kind of insane the dollars being thrown around. At some point the cap will level out and the smart teams won't be caught giving away the farm to a player when that happens. Cap is going to level out soon, so teams need to proceed with caution.

 

[cdumler7]

If people would be wiling to pay for online content, that clickbait shit would dry up. Oh well.

Honestly wouldn't mind too much. Helps get rid of all the ads that so many sites rely on for revenue and like you said maybe brings back some journalistic integrity. Still this is the world we live in and just hope that people can figure out how to weed through all the crap to find maybe the few pieces of information that are important. Such as the Von Miller crop of Elway out of the picture. First off I'm pretty sure Von Miller doesn't run his own Social Media. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was his agent saying this is a nice negotiating tactic to try and show the team we are not happy with the last offer. Both sides try to use the media to their advantage. Such as I'm sure the Broncos are the ones who released the info that they offered Von Miller the highest paid defensive contract in NFL history. Gets fans on their side and puts pressure on Von Miller. So then Von Miller's side releases the guaranteed part of the contract to show the Broncos low-balled him (honestly they were not that far off. Just how things go with these contract negotiations.

 

[Dude]

The intensity Miller showed in the PO run and SB was I think a performance for the books. Question is, can that intensity be maintained after big pay day? Denver has made a damn good offer, they will probably work it out. It would be sad to see such a player fizzle out after delivering so well last season. This is the problem with huge salaries, it is getting out of control and setting precedent. How much is enough for these guys? The higher these things go, the more problems for all teams in the league.

 

[cdumler7]

Got a feeling the Broncos and Miller part ways after next year. I sure could be wrong, but don't see a deal happening here. Players are making more money ever year, kind of insane the dollars being thrown around. At some point the cap will level out and the smart teams won't be caught giving away the farm to a player when that happens. Cap is going to level out soon, so teams need to proceed with caution.

Couple of things...

1) Broncos and Miller are not as far off as some might think.
Let's just look at the top-5 top-non paid QB's in the league and their contract structures and what the Broncos offered...

1) Suh--Please realize that his contract is a bit of an outlier compared to the other contracts.
Initial Guaranteed money--$60 million which is also the total guaranteed money

Marcell Dareus
Initial Guaranteed money--$42.9 million and total guaranteed money is $60 million

Olivier Vernon
Initial Guaranteed money--$40 million with total guaranteed money at $52.5 million

Justin Houston
Initial Guaranteed money--$32.5 million with total guaranteed money at $52.5 million

JJ Watt
Initial Guaranteed money--$20.88 million

So then Broncos offer was

6-years/$114.5 million which would make him the highest paid non-QB in the league just a bit over that of Suh.
They also offered $38.5 million in initial Guaranteed money with $58.5 million in total guaranteed money.

People have to remember that initial guaranteed is the only truly promised money. There are guarantees in a contract that are not actually guaranteed fully but depend on certain situations for a player to get them.

So in reality if we are looking at say Dareus' contract as really the one the Broncos probably need to beat they are only a few million off on both for the guarantees. If they want to get Suh type guarantees then we really could be in for an interesting situation. Like I said that is an outlier situation that I wouldn't think Miller should be thinking is realistic. Maybe the Broncos cave a bit but the true nature of the deal should be closer to that of Dareus' when it comes to guaranteed money than that of Suh. Miami when you look at the nuts and bolts of the contract really didn't do the best job of shaping that contract and have made it very difficult not to just keep pushing the money down the road. Part of their problem though is that they made that first year so cap friendly they really made the following years very difficult to manage. That is why I say the Broncos have to stick with the 1st year being at least at the FT price if not a bit more to make sure the following years are not such huge cap hits that they just have to keep pushing the price down the road to make it.

 

[cdumler7]

The intensity Miller showed in the PO run and SB was I think a performance for the books. Question is, can that intensity be maintained after big pay day? Denver has made a damn good offer, they will probably work it out. It would be sad to see such a player fizzle out after delivering so well last season. This is the problem with huge salaries, it is getting out of control and setting precedent. How much is enough for these guys? The higher these things go, the more problems for all teams in the league.

The one thing I will say to this though is that Von Miller with being the 2nd overall pick in the draft has actually been paid decent money throughout his contract and has still performed at a high level. If this was a 2nd round pick or later who wasn't making a ton every single year then saw the big pay day I could agree here but he has been paid decent to good money most of his contract and still performed almost every single season.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It's not as easy as all that, the injury has to be supported by a doctor or doctors before a player can pull that off....These guys didn't get to billionaires from being stupid and I don't know of any active billionaire players so I'd say they aren't as smart as their bosses....
If Miller puts in a bad yr, it hurts his market value for next yr if they don't franchise him again....
He had a great yr, last season, but other than that, he's been good to very good his whole career IMO....
I don't think Elway will give him a contract that could cripple the team over the next 3 yrs...

That's the beauty of a hamstring no one can tell if yo're faking. There are no signs. All you need to do is make sure favor the injured leg hahaha.
As I mentioned he needs to play enough to prove his worth yet let Denver know if they don't want to pay him and or try the tag for a second year they may have more health issues to deal with.
It's playing with fire no doubt but a bargaining technique that has worked in the past. The team will either negotiate or let him walk/trade.
Denver needs to pay him his wort which is top $.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Broncos are running into the SB winner problem where everyone wants top dollars. We'll see how it works out, so far don't think it's worked out at all for the Broncos.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Right and so far Von Miller and Elway have been very friendly. Just last Monday both were talking about how they respected the process and were very optimistic something would get done. Cutting Elway out of a picture at this point doesn't mean much. You can read into it I guess what you want but to me no big deal.

RightVon just didn't want his picture taken with a white dude