Game Thread: Week 7: Bears (3-2) vs Saints (5-1)

[richig07]

I’m starting to get the feeling Chicago isn’t very good. Great defense that breaks too often from fatigue because the offense is absolute trash.

You and everyone in Chicago, my friend. lol

 

[Beengay fudgepackers]

The thing is that you can't run it when you're facing such a deficit in the 4th. A lot of times people forget that when they look at post-game stats of a blowout. We hardly ran any plays in the first 3 quarters (relatively speaking) and then we ran a shit ton in the last 10ish minutes. Of course, all of those were rightfully passes.

I really don't know. I think running it just because "conventional wisdom says so" is equally as boneheaded as anything. Analytics has done a lot for sports and it's something I've taken a huge interest in over the past couple years. The running game is a bit overvalued, generally speaking. A huge reason why the ratio has gotten even more pass happy the last few years is because teams are hiring analytics staff into the front offices now.

Just keep running it despite the fact that it constantly creates 2nd and longs? That's kind of insanity in its own right. It was clear we weren't going to run on them. Nobody does. We sure ain't. Then we fumbled on 2 of those 7 carries and averaged like 2 yards.

I'm not taking a side against you here. I really just don't know. I know (you're right) the ratio has to be better than it was. I don't think by THAT much, though. Our 1st down plays typically were okay. Like I said... we set up 3rd and manageable all afternoon long.

I agree running Cohen up the centers ass is dumb and I would like to hear an explanation. Struggles with the run game come from more than that play, though. You can count on one (maybe two) hands how many times he's done it. I find it much more concerning that when Montgomery takes a hand-off (the guy we should be giving it to) he meets a brick wall.

At the end of the day our QB is the worst starter in the league and there are probably 7-8 backups I would rather have start Sunday's game for us. Our O-line is abysmal trash. I'm not saying Nagy shouldn't take criticism. I'm just saying he shouldn't be at the very top of our lists. That's just my opinion.

TL;DR. We will just have to agree to disagree. You are clearly wrong though.

 

[richig07]

TL;DR. We will just have to agree to disagree. You are clearly wrong though.

I didn't even disagree with you. lol

But alright brother.

 

[Payton]

I would be down with this as a game plan for Sunday.

For the love of god... can Mitch start running too? What in the hell is this about? I get that he wants to protect his body but good lord. At this point, fuck it. That extended SO MANY drives last year. He was such a good pure runner. I remember being so impressed by what he could do in that facet. Now it's gone completely.

WHHHHYYYYY???

Absolutely... I remember some of the pre-season games from last season where I almost thought we had the next Aaron Rodgers on our hands with his mobility... Yes, I am VERY embarrassed that I dared to even think anything of that sort now, but...

I am at a loss at this point because there is SO much that is wrong. Cohen and Gabriel are totally AWOL it seems and they were HUGE parts of our offense last year.

 

[flclfanman]

Absolutely... I remember some of the pre-season games from last season where I almost thought we had the next Aaron Rodgers on our hands with his mobility... Yes, I am VERY embarrassed that I dared to even think anything of that sort now, but...

I am at a loss at this point because there is SO much that is wrong. Cohen and Gabriel are totally AWOL it seems and they were HUGE parts of our offense last year.

I remember when we actually played our starters in preseason to see what we had. But apparently we were too good for that this season.

You see, the ONLY problem we had last year was the kicking

 

[Jiddy]

I remember when we actually played our starters in preseason to see what we had. But apparently we were too good for that this season.

You see, the ONLY problem we had last year was the kicking

I said it before...There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance...Club Dub...The whole "we'll just skip preseason" deal...The weird kicking search. When the losing starts and the line starts to gear toward the latter of the two, it can get really ugly.

If this season goes down the sh*thole, I would go so far as to say we might need to move on from Nagy in the way we set ourselves up to fall. That would be rash, but if he loses the locker room that's a bad sign for going forward.

Winning solves everything. We'll see. 4-3 after the Chargers and some positive things can at least stay our course...I'm just worried at this point we start snowballing. I mean...We can't f*cking score for sh*t...Hell, even move the ball in a reasonable manner...That's never gonna lead to good results.

 

[flclfanman]

I said it before...There is a fine line between confidence and arrogance...Club Dub...The whole "we'll just skip preseason" deal...The weird kicking search. When the losing starts and the line starts to gear toward the latter of the two, it can get really ugly.

If this season goes down the sh*thole, I would go so far as to say we might need to move on from Nagy in the way we set ourselves up to fall. That would be rash, but if he loses the locker room that's a bad sign for going forward.

Winning solves everything. We'll see. 4-3 after the Chargers and some positive things can at least stay our course...I'm just worried at this point we start snowballing. I mean...We can't f*cking score for sh*t...Hell, even move the ball in a reasonable manner...That's never gonna lead to good results.

If we can't put up points on the flailing Chargers and the Secondary-Free Eagles, it's probably firesale time.

Our coach is simply too arrogant to adjust his play calling when his dream gameplan doesn't match the personnel.

Mitch can't throw in the pocket and should roll out? TOO F-ING BAD. We're gonna staple your ass in the pocket and make you force an inaccurate throw.

We need to get the run game going to take pressure of your QB? TOO F-ING BAD. We are gonna become one-dimensional and force our rattled QB to make shaky throws.

Round Peg. Meet Square Hole.

 

[beardown07]

The thing is that you can't run it when you're facing such a deficit in the 4th. A lot of times people forget that when they look at post-game stats of a blowout. We hardly ran any plays in the first 3 quarters (relatively speaking) and then we ran a shit ton in the last 10ish minutes. Of course, all of those were rightfully passes.

I really don't know. I think running it just because "conventional wisdom says so" is equally as boneheaded as anything. Analytics has done a lot for sports and it's something I've taken a huge interest in over the past couple years. The running game is a bit overvalued, generally speaking. A huge reason why the ratio has gotten even more pass happy the last few years is because teams are hiring analytics staff into the front offices now.

Just keep running it despite the fact that it constantly creates 2nd and longs? That's kind of insanity in its own right. It was clear we weren't going to run on them. Nobody does. We sure ain't. Then we fumbled on 2 of those 7 carries and averaged like 2 yards.

I'm not taking a side against you here. I really just don't know. I know (you're right) the ratio has to be better than it was. I don't think by THAT much, though. Our 1st down plays typically were okay. Like I said... we set up 3rd and manageable all afternoon long.

I agree running Cohen up the centers ass is dumb and I would like to hear an explanation. Struggles with the run game come from more than that play, though. You can count on one (maybe two) hands how many times he's done it. I find it much more concerning that when Montgomery takes a hand-off (the guy we should be giving it to) he meets a brick wall.

At the end of the day our QB is the worst starter in the league and there are probably 7-8 backups I would rather have start Sunday's game for us. Our O-line is abysmal trash. I'm not saying Nagy shouldn't take criticism. I'm just saying he shouldn't be at the very top of our lists. That's just my opinion.

The game will never evolve past running the ball. The three and outs certainly don't help when trying to establish a running game and rhythm, but 3 runs in the first half, in what was still a close game is absurd. And two of those runs were Cohen up the gut and a fucking gadget play to Miller(fumble)

Montgomery never touched the ball until 11:27 in the THIRD quarter. (fumble)

That shit is ridiculous. That is ALL on Nagy.

Who would know the true extent of Trubisky's poor play, when horrible playcalling and line play is so prevalent?

Nagy>>>o-line>>>Trubisky, IMO.

That's not to absolve Trubisky, cuz he has looked awful, but you have to put your QB in position to succeed, and Nagy has failed miserably at that, IMO.

 

[Jiddy]

The game will never evolve past running the ball. The three and outs certainly don't help when trying to establish a running game and rhythm, but 3 runs in the first half, in what was still a close game is absurd. And two of those runs were Cohen up the gut and a fucking gadget play to Miller(fumble)

Montgomery never touched the ball until 11:27 in the THIRD quarter. (fumble)

That shit is ridiculous. That is ALL on Nagy.

Who would know the true extent of Trubisky's poor play, when horrible playcalling and line play is so prevalent?

Nagy>>>o-line>>>Trubisky, IMO.

That's not to absolve Trubisky, cuz he has looked awful, but you have to put your QB in position to succeed, and Nagy has failed miserably at that, IMO.

Talking about our offense...

Coaching...QB...OLine...wide receivers...(insert reason here)

Groundhog's day...over and over and over...for decades...

Tiring.

But I'll be there on Sunday hoping the Chargers can suck just a little bit more.

Bear f*cking down.

 

[Nelly]

The O line looked much better without Long in there. Not that they were mowing guys down but they held up well enough in pass pro for Mitch to miss wide open reads and/or receivers.

This team is fucked. I'm guessing we'll end up 6-10.

 

[beardown07]

The O line looked much better without Long in there. Not that they were mowing guys down but they held up well enough in pass pro for Mitch to miss wide open reads and/or receivers.

This team is fucked. I'm guessing we'll end up 6-10.

I agree they played better. Who could really know in run blocking?

7 fucking rushes, with Montgomery not touching it til the 3rd qtr.

 

[richig07]

Absolutely... I remember some of the pre-season games from last season where I almost thought we had the next Aaron Rodgers on our hands with his mobility... Yes, I am VERY embarrassed that I dared to even think anything of that sort now, but...

I am at a loss at this point because there is SO much that is wrong. Cohen and Gabriel are totally AWOL it seems and they were HUGE parts of our offense last year.

There's even rumors of a Gabriel trade going on.

 

[averagejoe]

7 #@%$ rushes, with Montgomery not touching it til the 3rd qtr.

And on Walter Payton bobble head day. Disgraceful.

 

[antone112]

At least he can draw up some sweet 2 pt conversions. Gimmick Guru

 

[beardown07]

And on Walter Payton bobble head day. Disgraceful.

I'm disappointed that Montgomery hasn't been featured more for the whole year. We are halfway thru the season damn near, and he has 200 and change for rushing yds!? That's absurd. I would like to see him be more of a feature back. As much as the fans and league would like to believe otherwise, running the ball and stopping the run are still 1 and 2 in priorities.

 

[richig07]

The game will never evolve past running the ball. The three and outs certainly don't help when trying to establish a running game and rhythm, but 3 runs in the first half, in what was still a close game is absurd. And two of those runs were Cohen up the gut and a fucking gadget play to Miller(fumble)

Montgomery never touched the ball until 11:27 in the THIRD quarter. (fumble)

That shit is ridiculous. That is ALL on Nagy.

Who would know the true extent of Trubisky's poor play, when horrible playcalling and line play is so prevalent?

Nagy>>>o-line>>>Trubisky, IMO.

That's not to absolve Trubisky, cuz he has looked awful, but you have to put your QB in position to succeed, and Nagy has failed miserably at that, IMO.

Saints vs. Bears - Play-By-Play - October 20, 2019 - ESPN

The pass-run ratio was 22 pass 5 run until the Bears got the ball with 2 minutes left in the half. It's not ideal. I get that. However, this team was trying to pass to setup the run and when you have a QB who can't hit a rudimentary throw in order to do that. Things get hairy.

Look. I'm just going to let it fly on Mitch for a moment. I think if you're still making excuses for Mitch that you're just kicking reality down the road so you don't have to yet deal with it. I can't follow anymore. If you know me... you know I have DIED on every QB hill with the Bears going back to f'ing Rex Grossman. But this one is so obvious. I just can't even pretend to sit with my thumb up my ass and give him every cliche'd excuse.

Name one QB who has been in the conversation for "worst QB in the NFL" into year #3 of their career as a starter that has gone onto be a successful franchise QB. This is NOT a rookie. This is a 25 year old, 3rd year starting QB with 32 games of NFL experience.

Regardless of what is being called, regardless of the line... Mitch can't read the play, he can't see his progressions, he can't feel pressure properly and he can't make the damn throws even when they are WIDE open. He can't do ANYTHING. He is not capable of doing ANYTHING a QB needs to do. He is good at NOTHING.

Moses could be calling plays for Mitch. It wouldn't matter right now. Mitch sacks himself a large portion of the time due to his indecisiveness and his inability to see the game fast enough. He suffers the biggest drop off in CMP% and QB rating under pressure in all of the NFL because at the slightest site of trouble he becomes a

Everything that a good QB does. Mitch does the opposite of those things. It KILLS this team. It also just sucks the life out of them when he misses those throws. You can visibly see it.

Mitch isn't out there running around like a talented QB in a bad situation trying to make something happen. He's HOPELESS and overmatched at this level. PERIOD.

His O-line isn't good? I'm SO TIRED of us giving this rotating door of excuses. Jay Cutler never had a good offensive line, good coaching and had kick returners catching passes for him in 2010 and 2011. He once got sacked 9 times in one half. Yet, he was 17-8 in those two seasons and went to an NFC title while playing the position very respectably.

And Cutler wasn't even good - he was just a professional level quarterback. If you're competent you can work through issues. They don't get magnified to this level. That happens when the QB is a disaster.

Mitch isn't a victim of a horrible circumstance. He is a huge part of the circumstances. You can argue other things are bad... but Mitch is bad too. REAL bad. Not "Hey, look... I'm not saying he's good. He needs to be better." kind of bad. Mitch is catastrophically bad.

This logic which gives the QB the benefit of the doubt and points to ANYTHING else besides him. How about the fact that Matt Nagy has to figure out how to move the ball with the worst starting QB in football leading his offense? I mean, why doesn't Nagy get the same excuses that Mitch does?

Like... what is Mitch good at? We are into his 3rd year starting. Tell me what he does well. I cannot think of ONE thing.

 

[richig07]

And FWIW... the run game is definitely taking a back seat in this league.

 

[beardown07]

Saints vs. Bears - Play-By-Play - October 20, 2019 - ESPN

The pass-run ratio was 22 pass 5 run until the Bears got the ball with 2 minutes left in the half. It's not ideal. I get that. However, this team was trying to pass to setup the run and when you have a QB who can't hit a rudimentary throw in order to do that. Things get hairy.

Look. I'm just going to let it fly on Mitch for a moment. I think if you're still making excuses for Mitch that you're just kicking reality down the road so you don't have to yet deal with it. I can't follow anymore. If you know me... you know I have DIED on every QB hill with the Bears going back to f'ing Rex Grossman. But this one is so obvious. I just can't even pretend to sit with my thumb up my ass and give him every cliche'd excuse.

Name one QB who has been in the conversation for "worst QB in the NFL" into year #3 of their career as a starter that has gone onto be a successful franchise QB. This is NOT a rookie. This is a 25 year old, 3rd year starting QB with 32 games of NFL experience.

Regardless of what is being called, regardless of the line... Mitch can't read the play, he can't see his progressions, he can't feel pressure properly and he can't make the damn throws even when they are WIDE open. He can't do ANYTHING. He is not capable of doing ANYTHING a QB needs to do. He is good at NOTHING.

Moses could be calling plays for Mitch. It wouldn't matter right now. Mitch sacks himself a large portion of the time due to his indecisiveness and his inability to see the game fast enough. He suffers the biggest drop off in CMP% and QB rating under pressure in all of the NFL because at the slightest site of trouble he becomes a

Everything that a good QB does. Mitch does the opposite of those things. It KILLS this team. It also just sucks the life out of them when he misses those throws. You can visibly see it.

Mitch isn't out there running around like a talented QB in a bad situation trying to make something happen. He's HOPELESS and overmatched at this level. PERIOD.

His O-line isn't good? I'm SO TIRED of us giving this rotating door of excuses. Jay Cutler never had a good offensive line, good coaching and had kick returners catching passes for him in 2010 and 2011. He once got sacked 9 times in one half. Yet, he was 17-8 in those two seasons and went to an NFC title while playing the position very respectably.

And Cutler wasn't even good - he was just a professional level quarterback. If you're competent you can work through issues. They don't get magnified to this level. That happens when the QB is a disaster.

Mitch isn't a victim of a horrible circumstance. He is a huge part of the circumstances. You can argue other things are bad... but Mitch is bad too. REAL bad. Not "Hey, look... I'm not saying he's good. He needs to be better." kind of bad. Mitch is catastrophically bad.

This logic which gives the QB the benefit of the doubt and points to ANYTHING else besides him. How about the fact that Matt Nagy has to figure out how to move the ball with the worst starting QB in football leading his offense? I mean, why doesn't Nagy get the same excuses that Mitch does?

Like... what is Mitch good at? We are into his 3rd year starting. Tell me what he does well. I cannot think of ONE thing.

I agree. He's not where he needs to be. That's all the more reason to hand the fucking ball off, and run to set up the pass.

I'm not worried about next year. Right now, Nagy is not playing to his team's strengths.

 

[LambeauLegs]

A big difference compared to last year is the # of take aways the defense had last year and the short fields those take aways gave your offense.

 

[Jiddy]

A big difference compared to last year is the # of take aways the defense had last year and the short fields those take aways gave your offense.

We're on pace for 27 turnovers this year...Last year we had 36. That's not even close to the problem though.