Game Thread: Week 5 - Seahawks at Saints - 10AM PST

[Sharkonabicycle]

with the 3-4 there is SO MUCH MORE on the Linebackers plate. You draft 3-4 linebackers, rarely can you turn someone into a 3-4 linebacker.

100% agreed. And with a 3-4 the ILBs are asked to cover quite a bit, something we know from the last couple years Brooks really cannot do, and Barton? I mean Barton is Rudy at this point... I love the guys spirit but it's like Happy Gilmore... there's a problem, he's not any good. And then the EDGE rushers have to be larger guys that know how to play the position.

It's a hard D to run, and Seattle did FUCK all to build up this 3-4 outside of acquiring Shelby Harris. Boye Mafe could be considered a future solid starter in a 3-4 but projected better as a 4-3 pass rush specialist due to his first step....

So who in the wide world of fuck, decided a 3-4 let alone wide 9 defense was the right answer? I mean teams with literally half their starting offense are just destroying Seattle at this moment. That shit doesn't happen. I literally can't remember a worse defense in NFL history.... I mean we're in 2012 Saints territory here.

 

[Screamin12th]

Sadly, Taylor looks lost in this scheme. I knew that the switch would be an issue for certain players but Taylor looked like a possible cornerstone to build around last season.

Well Taylor is a 4-3 DE not a stand-up Linebacker. The 4-3 will also hurt Robinson who showed flashes. These Guys are 4-3 DE's not 3-4 outside Linebackers. I don't think Mofe will transition to a good 3-4 outside Linebacker either. They have the pieces for a solid 4-3 defensive front.

Seattle also is getting very little pressure ...again..

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Well Taylor is a 4-3 DE not a stand-up Linebacker. The 4-3 will also hurt Robinson who showed flashes. These Guys are 4-3 DE's not 3-4 outside linebackers.

And I'd be curious to know who the hell decided to move to a 3-4 or wide 9 (which they've showed in both preseason and regular season). Was that Hurtt's idea, was that Carrolls? I can pardon Carroll a bit if it was Hurtt's idea (hey - gotta have some faith in your crew) but if that was Carroll's idea then at this point given the last few seasons of how this defense has played, time to make coaching changes.

I mean it's tough, because the offense is playing well.... I'd just be curious to know who the hell made the final decision to go to a 3-4? It'll be interesting to listen to the press conference from Pete after this game and whether changes are getting made. If they march this same shit defense out next week, it's going to generate a lot of attention. And, what do you change? Go back to Ford/Woods/Jefferson in the middle, with Harris outside and either Mafe/Taylor as EDGE (where they are meant to play), and then Brooks/Nwosu and anyone other than fuckin' Barton as your linebackers. You'll stop the run just fine, Taysom Hill isn't rattling off the rushing performance he did today against that, which is what lost you the game.

 

[flyerhawk]

And I'd be curious to know who the hell decided to move to a 3-4 or wide 9 (which they've showed in both preseason and regular season). Was that Hurtt's idea, was that Carrolls? I can pardon Carroll a bit if it was Hurtt's idea (hey - gotta have some faith in your crew) but if that was Carroll's idea then at this point given the last few seasons of how this defense has played, time to make coaching changes.

I mean it's tough, because the offense is playing well.... I'd just be curious to know who the hell made the final decision to go to a 3-4? It'll be interesting to listen to the press conference from Pete after this game and whether changes are getting made. If they march this same shit defense out next week, it's going to generate a lot of attention. And, what do you change? Go back to Ford/Woods/Jefferson in the middle, with Harris outside and either Mafe/Taylor as EDGE (where they are meant to play), and then Brooks/Nwosu and anyone other than fuckin' Barton as your linebackers. You'll stop the run just fine, Taysom Hill isn't rattling off the rushing performance he did today against that, which is what lost you the game.

He was hired to run this defense

 

[Screamin12th]

Penny has a broken Leg and i 100% put that on Karma from MrS. Thats how Karma works. Just ask those asshat Bronco fans that were here talking shit before the season even started.

 

[WizardHawk]

At least for some of us we still have baseball right now, and others have the NHL starting. We're going to need it for the distraction from this God awful football team.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

He was hired to run this defense

Well it appears that hiring and the approval process to move to a 3-4 was a mistake. Guess we can blame everyone on that. Bigger point, is how do we fix it? IMO go back to a 4-3.... Carroll knows how to run those, if you need to replace Hurtt do it... but it can't continue like this. And then hey if moving to a 3-4 is your new thing, hire the personnel or go into the offseason with the picks and salary cap that we know the Hawks will have to make that happen.

Again, I've never been a big advocate of throwing a season, but at this point - you're going to lose the locker room (especially on the offensive side of the ball) with what Seattle is doing... and that has serious implications because if free agents get a sense of that, you're not going to acquire them... which Seattle desperately needs for a 3-4 at the moment.

Go back to a 4-3. If it was Hurtt's idea and he said he could pull it off, but can't? Yah.... woops, it was a bad hiring, he's done. Should some of the blame be put on Carroll/Schneider for that? Yes... but there's a longer track record of success there. Again, dying to see what is said by Carroll.

 

[AceKeptic]

Maybe if we actually BURNED Norton's playbook rather than recycled it when we hired his replacement...

Seriously, I know we're rebuilding and all, but SOMEONE is not making any effort here.

 

[MrS]

None of the college top QB have looked all that good to me this year. Not excited. They all are very limited QB's in the big picture. I hope the Hawks don't "OVER DRAFT" a QB when this team is 2 or 3 drafts away. Finding a Kirk Cousins type QB in the 4th would be the smart move. Need a Game Manager not a game changer because when you go after someone you think is a game changer QB you bust more often than hit.

I think geno is adequate and would do well if our defense wasn't absolutely trash.
So im fine going defense in round one and maybe drafted project qb round 3 or later

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think geno is adequate and would do well if our defense wasn't absolutely trash.
So im fine going defense in round one and maybe drafted project qb round 3 or later

I honestly think it's what they'll do. They got a lot of criticism from analysts/various sites for not drafting a QB this year.... but none of the drafted QBs have done fuck all.

I have a funny feeling, they're going EDGE/C in round 1, and ILB/secondary in round 2.... and everyone is going to blow their load all over their screen about "OMG SEATTLE DIDN'T TAKE A QB!" I actually think Seattle has zero intention of draft a QB high. I mean it really comes down to 2 things at this point: 1) How high is Seattle's picks, and most importantly 2) Did Schneider go visit any of the QBs or go to their pro day?

 

[MrS]

Penny has a broken Leg and i 100% put that on Karma from MrS. Thats how Karma works. Just ask those asshat Bronco fans that were here talking shit before the season even started.

I guess I can say I was right, again.
But only accidentally

 

[flyerhawk]

I guess I can say I was right, again.
But only accidentally

You think being able to say that you're right is more important than the Seahawks winning. It's gross

 

[flyerhawk]

I honestly think it's what they'll do. They got a lot of criticism from analysts/various sites for not drafting a QB this year.... but none of the drafted QBs have done fuck all.

I have a funny feeling, they're going EDGE/C in round 1, and ILB/secondary in round 2.... and everyone is going to blow their load all over their screen about "OMG SEATTLE DIDN'T TAKE A QB!" I actually think Seattle has zero intention of draft a QB high. I mean it really comes down to 2 things at this point: 1) How high is Seattle's picks, and most importantly 2) Did Schneider go visit any of the QBs or go to their pro day?

Geno is not the answer. I like the guy but he wilts in crunch time. I don't want us to be the Titans

 

[seahawksfan234]

Well it appears that hiring and the approval process to move to a 3-4 was a mistake. Guess we can blame everyone on that. Bigger point, is how do we fix it? IMO go back to a 4-3.... Carroll knows how to run those, if you need to replace Hurtt do it... but it can't continue like this. And then hey if moving to a 3-4 is your new thing, hire the personnel or go into the offseason with the picks and salary cap that we know the Hawks will have to make that happen.

Again, I've never been a big advocate of throwing a season, but at this point - you're going to lose the locker room (especially on the offensive side of the ball) with what Seattle is doing... and that has serious implications because if free agents get a sense of that, you're not going to acquire them... which Seattle desperately needs for a 3-4 at the moment.

Go back to a 4-3. If it was Hurtt's idea and he said he could pull it off, but can't? Yah.... woops, it was a bad hiring, he's done. Should some of the blame be put on Carroll/Schneider for that? Yes... but there's a longer track record of success there. Again, dying to see what is said by Carroll.

I think you have to commit to one or the other and I think the issues run deeper than the scheme change. The responsibilities of the secondary for the most part stay the same, so I won't go into that, but here are my thoughts on how each player has played.

NT: Al Woods: At 34 years old he has has actually thrived in the 3-4, which doesn't surprise me because he was built to be a nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme. I'm not going to bother researching how much time he has played in a 3-4 but he's doing his job well.
DE: Shelby Harris: He has been solid which makes sense because he has spent his career as a 3-4 DE.
DE: Poona Ford: He has struggled badly, and I attribute it to the change in scheme. He was terrific as a 4-3 DT, but has been pretty bad this year. I think it makes sense as in a 4-3 a DT lines up directly over the guard, whereas now he is being lined up between the guard and tackle. Given Ford's size limitations, it makes sense that he struggles trying to beat a tackle who are usually possess more length than guards. In a 4-3 he's never going to go up against a tackle, in a 3-4 he will be going up against either a tackle or guard. When the OLB on his side drops back in coverage, he is tasked with going up against a tackle most times.
ILB: Jordyn Brooks: His play hasn't changed much from last year. He's above average against the run, but atrocious in pass coverage. That was sort of his player profile coming out of the draft so it's not unexpected. Personally I felt like he has regressed in pass coverage this year, that could be attributed to the change in scheme.
ILB: Cody Barton: I don't think it's a scheme problem with him, he's just not an NFL starter. He's pretty bad against the run and in pass coverage.
OLB: Uchenna Nwosu: He has been one of the best players on this defense, and he has experience playing in a 3-4. It's a tough position to play because you're responsible to rush the passer, stop the run, and be able to drop back in coverage.
OLB: Darrell Taylor: Scheme definitely isn't for him. He's a 4-3 DE who specifically a pass rusher. The change in scheme has definitely impacted him a lot as he's unable to cover or come off the edge and defend the run.

I can only speak to these guys as it's really hard to evaluate how well the secondary is playing with the television angles they show. Generally the responsibilities of the secondary remain pretty similar irrespective of scheme, but the front 7 isn't helping things.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I think you have to commit to one or the other and I think the issues run deeper than the scheme change. The responsibilities of the secondary for the most part stay the same, so I won't go into that, but here are my thoughts on how each player has played.

NT: Al Woods: At 34 years old he has has actually thrived in the 3-4, which doesn't surprise me because he was built to be a nose tackle in a 3-4 scheme. I'm not going to bother researching how much time he has played in a 3-4 but he's doing his job well.
DE: Shelby Harris: He has been solid which makes sense because he has spent his career as a 3-4 DE.
DE: Poona Ford: He has struggled badly, and I attribute it to the change in scheme. He was terrific as a 4-3 DT, but has been pretty bad this year. I think it makes sense as in a 4-3 a DT lines up directly over the guard, whereas now he is being lined up between the guard and tackle. Given Ford's size limitations, it makes sense that he struggles trying to beat a tackle who are usually possess more length than guards. In a 4-3 he's never going to go up against a tackle, in a 3-4 he will be going up against either a tackle or guard. When the OLB on his side drops back in coverage, he is tasked with going up against a tackle most times.
ILB: Jordyn Brooks: His play hasn't changed much from last year. He's above average against the run, but atrocious in pass coverage. That was sort of his player profile coming out of the draft so it's not unexpected. Personally I felt like he has regressed in pass coverage this year, that could be attributed to the change in scheme.
ILB: Cody Barton: I don't think it's a scheme problem with him, he's just not an NFL starter. He's pretty bad against the run and in pass coverage.
OLB: Uchenna Nwosu: He has been one of the best players on this defense, and he has experience playing in a 3-4. It's a tough position to play because you're responsible to rush the passer, stop the run, and be able to drop back in coverage.
OLB: Darrell Taylor: Scheme definitely isn't for him. He's a 4-3 DE who specifically a pass rusher. The change in scheme has definitely impacted him a lot as he's unable to cover or come off the edge and defend the run.

I can only speak to these guys as it's really hard to evaluate how well the secondary is playing with the television angles they show. Generally the responsibilities of the secondary remain pretty similar irrespective of scheme, but the front 7 isn't helping things.

Good writeup 234, and agreed with basically everything you're saying.... I just don't think there's much substance here to run a 3-4. Agree with what you say about Woods but the guy is 35..... and Brooks was never good in coverage which a 3-4 ILB requires you to be.

 

[MrS]

You think being able to say that you're right is more important than the Seahawks winning. It's gross

I dont want to be right, I just am.

 

[blstoker]

Being reported that Penny has a broken tibia. I mean, the poor guy has just gone through the worst health luck since 2019

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I mean fair. You're right. But Seattle should've EASILY won this game that was 100% decided by the refs, I hope New Orleans gets hit by a meteor tonight.

Yeah refs were terrible, and Ha, we won’t need the meteor though, Saints aren’t gonna win much this year either …

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Being reported that Penny has a broken tibia. I mean, the poor guy has just gone through the worst health luck since 2019

Yah that'll do it for his career if that's actually the case. I actually interviewed a woman who broke her tibia, and it's a LOOOOOOOONG recovery process and a pretty serious one and you don't really recover 100% from it. I get these are professional athletes and will get the finest medical attention, but Penny is out for the year, I'll just put it that way... and IMO he's gone after this season. Broken tibia generally results in metal implants and pins and just due to the whole injury, results in a slew of issues with the feet/ankle. Certainly livable with, but you're not playing a high end professional sport on that.

Well, let's see if Walker was worth the high 2nd round pick..... Really sad about Penny, certainly flashes there, guy just could never seem to stay healthy. Seattle and their injury luck with runningbacks has been atrocious. I mean we weren't even using Penny that much.

 

[JMR]

Once again wasn't able to tune in to the game and since RZC now only drops in on Hawks games as a last resort, I only saw bits and pieces. It really sucks that there currently is no way to (legally) consume out of market NFL games of your choosing like you can with virtually every other major sport. If the team was better I would probably go to a local sports bar, but I don't feel like blowing all that money to sit through frustrating losses when I could just relax at the house and enjoy red zone on my 75" screen. Anyway, a few thoughts on the game/team:

• Hey, good for Geno. He's putting up impressive numbers and playing well by any objective standard. However, he still needs to come through in crunch time *and* play well against better teams before I'll be truly impressed. That 14 yard sack on 3rd & 2 late yesterday was a killer. We've played 1 good team so far and got shut out on offense.
• Bummer for Penny. He wasn't lighting the world on fire but was playing pretty well, especially the last couple weeks. Sounds like he might be done for the year and probably as a Hawk.
• Let the Kenneth Walker era begin? Already 1 explosive scoring play, and he might be fun to watch. Glad I drafted him late on my fantasy team.
• The irony of what this team looks like is astounding. We decided to keep the defensive-minded 70 y/o old head coach and ship off the elite QB, and through 5 games we are moving the ball (in the air as much as on the ground) and scoring points, but the defense is putrid. I see a lot of friends yucking it up on social media about how poorly things are going for RW in Denver and how we are currently winning the trade, but when is PC held accountable for having a terrible defense when he's a defensive coach?? Isn't he masterminding this thing? He's put together yet another really awful unit on that side of the ball. That blame should lie at his feet, but maybe he gets another pass for finding hidden gem Tariq Woolen?

Still looks like 5-12 to me. Had to score almost 50 to beat a banged up Lions team, got rolled by Taysom Hill yesterday, and didn't even look like we belonged on the field vs the 1 good team we've faced. The Rams & Cards haven't looked very good so maybe we scratch out a couple division wins there, but there isn't much else out there. Maybe we can beat the Panthers & Jets, but I would probably take the under on 5.5 wins. The Dever game was our SB. Go Mariners!!