Top 10 poll: #5 player ever

[MilkSpiller22]

I wish there was an easy way to grade out players based on defensive abilities but if some a measurement existed then I guess there would be no need for us all to argue who is the best.

As for McGwire and Thomas, I was surprised that they graded out this good. I do think McGwire should be considered (eventually) if Bonds is considered. But McGwire was a one trick pony. I don't remember his defense being anything special for even a 1st baseman (cannot remember if Thomas was ever above average there either) so I doubt he's really land in a Top 25 list, let alone Top 10.

because of defensive metrics there is also unfair qualifications that affect rankings as well...

for example, 1B almost never gets respect in all time great lists... because players generally have a bad DWAR, they are not fast...


sometimes players like Lou Gehrig and Ted Williams(who did not play first-but is seen similar to other 1Bman) make the lists, just because their offensive numbers are just that good... but others get these huge boosts for defense, or for baserunning, where those stats are much more difficult to measure...

I really think WAR gives way to big of a bonus for position....

i have said this before, but if i ever have the time that i am willing to give, i would love to make an all encompassing stat, that really measures things well... as i dont think WAR, or OPS+ do great jobs....

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe he does, I don't know. Just not as convinced as you two are about this.

That’s fine, we’re just talking about sports. But it’s still 100% a lock.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

He will 100% get in first ballot and this is beyond dispute. Especially after Mauer got in that way.

mauer has some stats though that people remember as special... Posey is kind of forgettable...

 

[LHG]

because of defensive metrics there is also unfair qualifications that affect rankings as well...

for example, 1B almost never gets respect in all time great lists... because players generally have a bad DWAR, they are not fast...


sometimes players like Lou Gehrig and Ted Williams(who did not play first-but is seen similar to other 1Bman) make the lists, just because their offensive numbers are just that good... but others get these huge boosts for defense, or for baserunning, where those stats are much more difficult to measure...

I really think WAR gives way to big of a bonus for position....

i have said this before, but if i ever have the time that i am willing to give, i would love to make an all encompassing stat, that really measures things well... as i dont think WAR, or OPS+ do great jobs....

OPS+ may give a good idea of a player's hitting prowess but it gives zero information about defense. WAR just seems too subjective. Its a nice tool to use, roughly, when talking about a player's value, but, as you point out, it does seem a bit subjective. I'll still use it, for lack of better tools, but it is lacking.

Let us know when you've created that all encompassing stat. It'll probably put you in the HOF (or get you banished from MLB if it shows that a few HOFs shouldn't be there).

 

[msgkings322]

mauer has some stats though that people remember as special... Posey is kind of forgettable...

Weak troll attempt 2/10. Do better.

 

[LHG]

mauer has some stats though that people remember as special... Posey is kind of forgettable...

I'd be curious to know what those stats are for Mauer because I cannot seem to remember them at the moment.

 

[msgkings322]

I'd be curious to know what those stats are for Mauer because I cannot seem to remember them at the moment.

That’s one of the lamest trolls I’ve seen on the MLB page lol

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Weak troll attempt 2/10. Do better.

that really wasnt a troll attempt... at all...

i am not saying Posey wont make the HOF... but comparing him to Mauer, is not really what you want to do...

Mauer was a 3 time BA leader.... people remember him for his crazy BA and OBP...

Posey, although an MVP once, just like Mauer... only had his MVP season, where he had the BEST of anything....

he is a little forgettable...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

OPS+ may give a good idea of a player's hitting prowess but it gives zero information about defense. WAR just seems too subjective. Its a nice tool to use, roughly, when talking about a player's value, but, as you point out, it does seem a bit subjective. I'll still use it, for lack of better tools, but it is lacking.

Let us know when you've created that all encompassing stat. It'll probably put you in the HOF (or get you banished from MLB if it shows that a few HOFs shouldn't be there).

i used to create my own stats that i posted on this board.... a while ago... only used it for MVPs for the current season... havent done that in a while....

 

[msgkings322]

that really wasnt a troll attempt... at all...

i am not saying Posey wont make the HOF... but comparing him to Mauer, is not really what you want to do...

Mauer was a 3 time BA leader.... people remember him for his crazy BA and OBP...

Posey, although an MVP once, just like Mauer... only had his MVP season, where he had the BEST of anything....

he is a little forgettable...

This isn’t gonna work on me. You are advertising substantial ignorance about baseball though. Not a great look for you.

 

[calsnowskier]

Maybe he does, I don't know. Just not as convinced as you two are about this.

I have always thought Posey was a borderline HOFer. But Mauer convinced me he is a first ballot.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

This isn’t gonna work on me. You are advertising substantial ignorance about baseball though. Not a great look for you.

maybe the term forgettable, is too much... but my point still stands... comparing him with Mauer is not going to work for you.... their reputations are much different... people have a perception of Mauer to be much better than he was....

Posey never reached this level....

 

[msgkings322]

maybe the term forgettable, is too much... but my point still stands... comparing him with Mauer is not going to work for you.... their reputations are much different... people have a perception of Mauer to be much better than he was....

Posey never reached this level....

You can keep kicking yourself in the nuts here if you like. Saves me the trouble lol

 

[calsnowskier]

mauer has some stats though that people remember as special... Posey is kind of forgettable...

Mauer played almost half his career at 1st. Posey played his entire career behind the dish. And he was the main hitter on 3 championship teams.

 

[calsnowskier]

that really wasnt a troll attempt... at all...

i am not saying Posey wont make the HOF... but comparing him to Mauer, is not really what you want to do...

Mauer was a 3 time BA leader.... people remember him for his crazy BA and OBP...

Posey, although an MVP once, just like Mauer... only had his MVP season, where he had the BEST of anything....

he is a little forgettable...

Jeter was average at best.

 

[Nosferatu]

As a Twins fan I did not think Mauer deserved to go first ballot. He had one excellent year (contract year) then was a slappy singles hitter. 1 extra base hit and 1 RBI in 40 play off at bats isn't impressive. John Olerud > Joe Mauer

 

[msgkings322]

Mauer played almost half his career at 1st. Posey played his entire career behind the dish. And he was the main hitter on 3 championship teams.

Played first and hit for zero power. Only year he had over 13 dingers was 2009 with an anomalous jump to 28 (roids?). Usually hit around 9-10.

 

[calsnowskier]

Played first and hit for zero power. Only year he had over 13 dingers was 2009 with an anomalous jump to 28 (roids?). Usually hit around 9-10.

We have had the Mauer/Posey discussion thousands of times over the last 10 years. It isn’t like we are just pulling this comparison out of our ass on a whim.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You can keep kicking yourself in the nuts here if you like. Saves me the trouble lol

I am not saying anything wrong here. I didn’t say Mauer is better than posey. Nor did I say posey won’t make the hof.

All I said was comparing the 2 doesn’t work.

For the record. I do think posey is better. And I do think he should make the hof.

I am just telling most people don’t look at stats and base on reputation. Mauer had a much better rep that made people think he was better than he was.

Posey gets the west coast bias. And he will not get the respect he deserves.

Hell most people forgot that the giants won a ws this century. But they got 3.

That was also a weird team because it wasn’t really a dynasty. They somehow just found ways to make it to the WS and win.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

People remember the madbum ws.