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Top 10 Poll #1: #1 Player Ever

Who is the #1 player in Baseball history?

  • Ted Williams

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Frank Robinson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rickey Henderson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Schmidt

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Josh Gibson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mickey Mantle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Roger Clemens

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pedro Martinez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Randy Johnson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Greg Maddux

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Walter Johnson

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Johnny Bench

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Carlton Fisk

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Satchel Paige

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Aaron Judge

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hank Aaron

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sandy Koufax

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mariano Rivera

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cal Ripken

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Alex Rodriguez

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Albert Pujols

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Stan Musial

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Honus Wagner

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hank Greenberg

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mel Ott

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    38

Sportsguy9695

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Went with Ken Griffey JR. you couldn’t pitch to the kid back in the day
 

calsnowskier

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When I look at the poll results, I see Ruth with 15 votes and Mays with 7.
Right…

But Ruth only has 44% of the vote. More votes AGAINST him being #1 than FOR him being #1.
 

calsnowskier

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Went with Ken Griffey JR. you couldn’t pitch to the kid back in the day
I honestly am not sure he belongs on the top 10 list, let alone #1. Babe, Willie, Barry, Teddy, Rickey, Michael Jack, Frank all CLEARLY ahead of him, before he even begins to be considered.
 

BigFin

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Bonds was probably the best player of the 90’s even before he turned into a monster. A probable top 5 position player of all time before the freakish stuff.
 

calsnowskier

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Bonds was probably the best player of the 90’s even before he turned into a monster. A probable top 5 position player of all time before the freakish stuff.
IMHO, the top 3 in this poll should be clear (in whatever order). #4 is where it starts getting fun for me.
 

PolarVortex

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Well, I'm very, VERY opinionated about these baseball GOAT things.
First, you can't lump pitchers and position players together because their value to the team is measured in a different way. So, you can eliminate Clemens, Pedro, RJ, Maddux, Big Train, Paige, Koufax, Mo and Cy from the list which also should have included Carlton, Gibson, Marichal, and Mathewson.
Second, players who have not had a large enough sample set should not be included. That eliminates Judge and Ohtani.
Third. The following guys came up short: Ricky, Schmidt Junior, Fisk, F Robby, Ripkin, Ott
Fourth. Sudarah Oh played in an era of Japanese baseball when the level of talent was significantly less than it is today.
Fifth. I have no issues with aledged roiders. I think they belong in the HOF if the stats otherwise warrant.
I don't think you can compare players from different eras.

Dead ball era: Ty Cobb, runner up - Cap Anson

Post-deadball-WW2 era (1919-1945) - Babe Ruth, runner up, Rodgers Hornsby

WW2-pre-expansion - Stan Musial, runner up, Willie Mays

1961-1969 (pitching era) - Roberto Clemente, runner up, Harmon Killebrew,

1970-present (modern era) - Berry Bonds, runner up, Albert Pujols
 

PolarVortex

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Ruth often hit more homeruns than entire teams over the course a season.

Beyond baseball, I'm not sure anyone has dominated a sport more than Ruth dominated his. At least not a team sport.
How many homeruns did he hit in the late innings off of tired starting pitchers who would have given way to a relief pitcher in today's game? And how many did he hit off of right handed pitchers when he would have faced a lefty bullpen specialist throwing 100 mph in the last four innings of the game? See, this is why you can't really compare eras.
 

calsnowskier

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Well, I'm very, VERY opinionated about these baseball GOAT things.
First, you can't lump pitchers and position players together because their value to the team is measured in a different way. So, you can eliminate Clemens, Pedro, RJ, Maddux, Big Train, Paige, Koufax, Mo and Cy from the list which also should have included Carlton, Gibson, Marichal, and Mathewson.
Second, players who have not had a large enough sample set should not be included. That eliminates Judge and Ohtani.
Third. The following guys came up short: Ricky, Schmidt Junior, Fisk, F Robby, Ripkin, Ott
Fourth. Sudarah Oh played in an era of Japanese baseball when the level of talent was significantly less than it is today.
Fifth. I have no issues with aledged roiders. I think they belong in the HOF if the stats otherwise warrant.
I don't think you can compare players from different eras.

Dead ball era: Ty Cobb, runner up - Cap Anson

Post-deadball-WW2 era (1919-1945) - Babe Ruth, runner up, Rodgers Hornsby

WW2-pre-expansion - Stan Musial, runner up, Willie Mays

1961-1969 (pitching era) - Roberto Clemente, runner up, Harmon Killebrew,

1970-present (modern era) - Berry Bonds, runner up, Albert Pujols
Wait, wait, wait…

Musial over Mays?

Holy shit.
 

Cedrique

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Well, I'm very, VERY opinionated about these baseball GOAT things.
First, you can't lump pitchers and position players together because their value to the team is measured in a different way. So, you can eliminate Clemens, Pedro, RJ, Maddux, Big Train, Paige, Koufax, Mo and Cy from the list which also should have included Carlton, Gibson, Marichal, and Mathewson.
Second, players who have not had a large enough sample set should not be included. That eliminates Judge and Ohtani.
Third. The following guys came up short: Ricky, Schmidt Junior, Fisk, F Robby, Ripkin, Ott
Fourth. Sudarah Oh played in an era of Japanese baseball when the level of talent was significantly less than it is today.
Fifth. I have no issues with aledged roiders. I think they belong in the HOF if the stats otherwise warrant.
I don't think you can compare players from different eras.

Dead ball era: Ty Cobb, runner up - Cap Anson

Post-deadball-WW2 era (1919-1945) - Babe Ruth, runner up, Rodgers Hornsby

WW2-pre-expansion - Stan Musial, runner up, Willie Mays

1961-1969 (pitching era) - Roberto Clemente, runner up, Harmon Killebrew,

1970-present (modern era) - Berry Bonds, runner up, Albert Pujols
That's interesting but I think your thing is so different from this poll that you could start your own thread. There's prolly enough baseball nerds here that they could respond to both.
 

PolarVortex

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I trust you would find your opinion in this case is not widely held.
Go to baseball refrnce and compare Mays' stats to Musials stats for the era in question (1945-1960). It's really no contest.
100+ runs scored - Musial 9, Mays 7
Top ten in MVP vote - Musial 0, Mays 6
MVP awards - Musial 2, Mays 1
Lead league in doubles- Musial 6, Mays 0
10 RBI season - Musial 10, mays 4
Batting titles - Musial 6, Mays 1
Lead the league in Homeruns - Mays 1, Musial 0
GGs - Mays 4, Musial 0
Lead league in SBs - Mays 4, Musial 0

Willie gets kudos for his superior defense and base stealing but it pales in comparison to Musials superior hitting. Sorry. I know Willie iaa knownmore for his power than his other attributes. During the era of 1945-1960 Willie hit 279 homeruns. Musial hit 393.
 

Cedrique

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Go to baseball refrnce and compare Mays' stats to Musials stats for the era in question (1945-1960). It's really no contest.
100+ runs scored - Musial 9, Mays 7
Top ten in MVP vote - Musial 0, Mays 6
MVP awards - Musial 2, Mays 1
Lead league in doubles- Musial 6, Mays 0
10 RBI season - Musial 10, mays 4
Batting titles - Musial 6, Mays 1
Lead the league in Homeruns - Mays 1, Musial 0
GGs - Mays 4, Musial 0
Lead league in SBs - Mays 4, Musial 0

Willie gets kudos for his superior defense and base stealing but it pales in comparison to Musials superior hitting. Sorry. I know Willie iaa knownmore for his power than his other attributes. During the era of 1945-1960 Willie hit 279 homeruns. Musial hit 393.
Yeah but Willie was 14 years old in 1945. Oh, I get it now....I guess. Willie was born at the wrong time. Cause I'd have him easily ahead of Clemente and Killebrew.
 

PolarVortex

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Yeah but Willie was 14 years old in 1945. Oh, I get it now....I guess. Willie was born at the wrong time. Cause I'd have him easily ahead of Clemente and Killebrew.
Pretty much. Not saying Willie wasn't better than Clemente and Killebrew. He was. Obviously. But when you break it down by eras, some players are going to get screwed. Ted Williams really got screwed.
 

LHG

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Go to baseball refrnce and compare Mays' stats to Musials stats for the era in question (1945-1960). It's really no contest.
100+ runs scored - Musial 9, Mays 7
Top ten in MVP vote - Musial 0, Mays 6
MVP awards - Musial 2, Mays 1
Lead league in doubles- Musial 6, Mays 0
10 RBI season - Musial 10, mays 4
Batting titles - Musial 6, Mays 1
Lead the league in Homeruns - Mays 1, Musial 0
GGs - Mays 4, Musial 0
Lead league in SBs - Mays 4, Musial 0

Willie gets kudos for his superior defense and base stealing but it pales in comparison to Musials superior hitting. Sorry. I know Willie iaa knownmore for his power than his other attributes. During the era of 1945-1960 Willie hit 279 homeruns. Musial hit 393.
Interesting metrics used to determine who is better. Why doubles but not home runs? Do you feel that they are better for determining a good hitter? How much does defense and speed on the basepaths factor into your decision when hitting is slow close. Also, you may want to look again at MVP finishes. Both had more top 10 finishes than you list.

I will say, looking at Musial's career, he is pretty good and probably a lot more underrated than many baseball fans realize. He does edge out Mays in not just batting average but in on base percentage, slugging percentage and OPS+
 

calsnowskier

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Go to baseball refrnce and compare Mays' stats to Musials stats for the era in question (1945-1960). It's really no contest.
100+ runs scored - Musial 9, Mays 7
Top ten in MVP vote - Musial 0, Mays 6
MVP awards - Musial 2, Mays 1
Lead league in doubles- Musial 6, Mays 0
10 RBI season - Musial 10, mays 4
Batting titles - Musial 6, Mays 1
Lead the league in Homeruns - Mays 1, Musial 0
GGs - Mays 4, Musial 0
Lead league in SBs - Mays 4, Musial 0

Willie gets kudos for his superior defense and base stealing but it pales in comparison to Musials superior hitting. Sorry. I know Willie iaa knownmore for his power than his other attributes. During the era of 1945-1960 Willie hit 279 homeruns. Musial hit 393.
Such a disingenuous argument.

You declare an arbitrary time period, and because Mays only played for a part in that time period while Musial is wholly encapsulated in that time period, Musial is better? Outside of that time period, Mays lead the league in WAR 6 times, hits once, runs once, OPS and OPS+ twice and HRs 3 times (leading to the #2 career HR total by the time he retired).

But none of those numbers matter because they don’t encapsulate the entirety of Musial’s career.
 
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