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Top 10 poll: #24 player ever

Who is the #24 player in baseball history? Vote for 3!!


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

Cedrique

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Agree. The hitting penalty for Montreal (or Houston or St Louis or Pittsburgh) were not nearly as extreme as Denver’s advantage.
I think he was talking about a longevity penalty. I don't know if there is a hitting penalty for Astro turf. (although I'm pretty sure the Astrodome had a Home run penalty)
 

calsnowskier

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I think he was talking about a longevity penalty. I don't know if there is a hitting penalty for Astro turf. (although I'm pretty sure the Astrodome had a Home run penalty)
There are many advantages/disadvantages that players get due to park adjusters. If it is strongly suspected that a player lost productive years due to playing on concrete, than that should be factored in.

But an OF with a shorter career due to turf is not the same thing as a player who in the squat for 9 innings, 100-120 games a year.
 

Cedrique

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Why do people always vote Mathewson over Grover Alexander? Mathewson has a lower ERA but ERA+ is about even and it seems to me Grover was more dominant in his prime (except for when he was in WWI). I've seen someone mention Mathewson's great world series but Alexander also had a WS where he won 2 games and saved game 7.
 

Cedrique

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There are many advantages/disadvantages that players get due to park adjusters. If it is strongly suspected that a player lost productive years due to playing on concrete, than that should be factored in.

But an OF with a shorter career due to turf is not the same thing as a player who in the squat for 9 innings, 100-120 games a year.
Yeah it is an interesting question but it would take a little work to be able to attribute a particular player's production loss to playing on turf. Just completely off the top of my head it does seem possible. The generation just before the astro turf era (the 50s and 60's) did seem to have more guys with longer primes (Aaron, Mays,Robinson, etc.). I guess you'd have to compare the different eras with the "Turf Era" of maybe 1970-1995 and see how the players aged.


I am glad they all play on grass now though.
 

msgkings322

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An interesting factor is because there are 2 roughly equal 'best catcher ever' guys, they are splitting the "time to elevate that position" vote...if only one clear best catcher existed they might have 8-9 nominating votes lol
 

MilkSpiller22

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An interesting factor is because there are 2 roughly equal 'best catcher ever' guys, they are splitting the "time to elevate that position" vote...if only one clear best catcher existed they might have 8-9 nominating votes lol

not sure if they are roughly equal... statistics show Bench is the best by a fair margin... but lore and legend status has yogi being best by fair margin...

then there is Gary carter, who analytics loves, but is never in question to be the best catcher of all time... but yet, he has a better WAR7 than bench and is better defensively...

then there are others like Mickey Cochrane and Ivan Rodriguez...

Pudge is basically a more modern version of Gary Carter...

Cochrane is basically an older version of Yogi...
 

MilkSpiller22

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Why do people always vote Mathewson over Grover Alexander? Mathewson has a lower ERA but ERA+ is about even and it seems to me Grover was more dominant in his prime (except for when he was in WWI). I've seen someone mention Mathewson's great world series but Alexander also had a WS where he won 2 games and saved game 7.

yea... they are super close... i dont know who i would pick between the 2... it seems like Pete had the longer prime, more elite seasons... but Mathewson at his best was more dominant
 

Clayton

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not sure if they are roughly equal... statistics show Bench is the best by a fair margin... but lore and legend status has yogi being best by fair margin...

then there is Gary carter, who analytics loves, but is never in question to be the best catcher of all time... but yet, he has a better WAR7 than bench and is better defensively...

then there are others like Mickey Cochrane and Ivan Rodriguez...

Pudge is basically a more modern version of Gary Carter...

Cochrane is basically an older version of Yogi...
I think the idea of Gary Carter being better defensively is interesting because I guess I always associated controlling the bases and no one really even ran on Bench. Bench had a 43.5% Caught Stealing percentage while Carters is at 35%. Id imagine once factoring in innings difference, Carter gave up twice as many stolen bases. Carter's 3 best WAR years having barely any accolades is quite strange.

In terms of lore and legend, the only book on catchers I have is about Molina. Yogi Berra is certainly that guy, though. Him not playing on the Cardinals was a coup. Berra belongs top 25 if we're talking about reputation and you ignore advanced stats. I'm just not sure I'm fully on board with that approach.
 

MilkSpiller22

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I think the idea of Gary Carter being better defensively is interesting because I guess I always associated controlling the bases and no one really even ran on Bench. Bench had a 43.5% Caught Stealing percentage while Carters is at 35%. Id imagine once factoring in innings difference, Carter gave up twice as many stolen bases. Carter's 3 best WAR years having barely any accolades is quite strange.

In terms of lore and legend, the only book on catchers I have is about Molina. Yogi Berra is certainly that guy, though. Him not playing on the Cardinals was a coup. Berra belongs top 25 if we're talking about reputation and you ignore advanced stats. I'm just not sure I'm fully on board with that approach.

thats the problem with defense metrics... nobody knows whether it is trustworthy... it is nice when it supports the eye test... like ozzie smith and andruw jones... but it often doesnt...

now for catcher, there is plenty of other things besides SB... so i dont know if Carter really was better defensively or not...
 

Clayton

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If we're ignoring advanced stats, Griffey is definitely ahead of Berra imo
 
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