To the LeBron haters

[flyerhawk]

Perhaps, but it was a different era and I think it's somewhat disrespectful to take one player out of 60 to 70 years of basketball and declare him to the be the best without some stats and valid reasons to back it up. At least come up with some meat and potatoes to go with your argument - I at least showed the stats and acknowledged that LeBron was consistent with the assists and rebounds and that was without even comparing the systems and what each player was asked to do. Many of those stats exists because of what the coach directed them to do. On that score - LeBron never really has had a real coach and had to coach himself, but give me some meat on defense, passing and actual reasons for your statements. So far the only thing I have heard in here consistently is the tired statement that LeBron was the GOAT - no reasons why - just the statement - that is so old, I start falling asleep when I hear it. Nothing personal - you're a decent poster most of the time, but come on and give us something better

In one post you state that KAJ and Magic ARE better than Lebron but then in this post you start talking about how it is unfair to compare players from different eras.

From a purely statistical argument, it is close to impossible to argue that LJ is not either the best or 2nd best player in the history of basketball.

 

[Wamu]

So,....

BJ Armstrong > Jason Kidd, John Stockton?

BJ is 3 for 3.

Kidd is 1 for 3

Stockton is 0 for....

C'mon....lol

I refuse to read back past this page.

But, that can't be the argument.

If they are saying Jordan, KAJ > Lebron based on finals record...

I agree.

If it's anyone other than those two and maybe Magic?

Adam Morrison (1 ring) > Dominique Wilkins (0 rings)

 

[Wamu]

Name one person who as actually said that.

The problem is I never said anyone said that. It's great that you take so many of my comments seriously. It's funny stuff.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Gee thanks, Ace. I'm a decent poster, usually!

Why are you so worked up? LeBron's stats are among the best in history. And I never said he was the GOAT so settle down. MJ still is. But LeBron is in that tier right behind with KAJ and Magic.

Also LeBron has been a phenomenal defender in his career. His signature play is that block of Iguodala that he flew across the court to make.

Lmfao....

I have him #3.

It doesn't matter how many rings other guys have if he is the better player.

If they were close, or equal, yes.

Bird is an alltime great.

But, Lebron has passed him.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

3-0 is less impressive than 3-5?!?

Come on now, even you can't believe that!

In the sense that he got to the Finals more.

Obviously not for win/loss reasons.

You are both correct.

I'd rather be Eli Manning (2-0 Superbowl) over Jim Kelley (0-4).

But, I'd also rather be Peyton (2-2) or Elway (2-3) over Eli (2-0).

Eli has the better Superbowl record.

Nobody in their right mind would ever say he was better than Elway, Marino who both have losing records.

Lebron can never be Joe Montana.

But, he could be Tom Brady with another chip or two.

 

[SJ76]

I don't see how some of you can't understand the 2 eras are totally different. 90s vs current NBA are NOT the same. Almost all teams now score over 100 points, but back in the 90s 4 or maybe 5 teams would average over 100 points. Which means more stats for these current teams, etc.


Say it with me.. c'mon 1 more time for shits and grins.


Lebron does not get a pass for as weak as the East has been for the majority of his career. That only balances it all out with the West being really good. But... Lebron is really good and has had some really good teams as well. And he didn't get it done.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think at that level (franchise player/all time great list) that should certainly matter.

I does matter. But not to the level that those who aren't Lebron fans want it to. However, it also can't be diminished or ignored to the level that Lebron fans want it to be either.

Essentially, it's a tiebreaker. As I've mentioned before, the numbers between the all time greats are so close, that if we are going to insist on making these lists (and we are, because we're fans and that's what we do) you have to have a tiebreaker of some sort and generally speaking, that's championships.

It's why, for many, Lebron will never catch MJ and it's unlikely that he'll pass Kareem or Magic. It's also why some folks rank him even below Kobe and Shaq.

For me, I have him as a solid #4 all-time. It's going to be very difficult, imo, for him to move above Magic or Kareem, let alone MJ. But it's also going to be very difficult for anyone else to catch him at #4 any time soon.

 

[trojanfan12]

Winning a title with a third team might bump him up to #2 but that is the ceiling. I don't see anyone surpassing MJ in our lifetime.

^^^THIS^^^

As I said previously, I have Lebron pretty well stuck at #4. However, if he were to go to another team and lead that team to a title or 2...that makes for a solid case to move him up on the list. Maybe as high as #2 because he will have led 3 different teams to a title and no other all time great can say that.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I does matter. But not to the level that those who aren't Lebron fans want it to. However, it also can't be diminished or ignored to the level that Lebron fans want it to be either.

Essentially, it's a tiebreaker. As I've mentioned before, the numbers between the all time greats are so close, that if we are going to insist on making these lists (and we are, because we're fans and that's what we do) you have to have a tiebreaker of some sort and generally speaking, that's championships.

It's why, for many, Lebron will never catch MJ and it's unlikely that he'll pass Kareem or Magic. It's also why some folks rank him even below Kobe and Shaq.

For me, I have him as a solid #4 all-time. It's going to be very difficult, imo, for him to move above Magic or Kareem, let alone MJ. But it's also going to be very difficult for anyone else to catch him at #4 any time soon.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

In one post you state that KAJ and Magic ARE better than Lebron but then in this post you start talking about how it is unfair to compare players from different eras.

From a purely statistical argument, it is close to impossible to argue that LJ is not either the best or 2nd best player in the history of basketball.

I agree, but LeBron hasn't finished his career yet and it is remotely possible he will pass them.

 

[trojanfan12]

And if my aunt had balls she's be my uncle. If the Cavs weren't so injured in 2015 maybe "LeBron" is 4-4

He's also a Ray Allen miracle and injuries/ejections on GSW from being 1-7.

 

[flyerhawk]

He's also a Ray Allen miracle and injuries/ejections on GSW from being 1-7.

You could do this for just about every championship team.

 

[trojanfan12]

You could do this for just about every championship team.

Agree.

 

[msgkings322]

You could do this for just about every championship team.

Yep this is my point, the what if game is kind of silly

 

[SJ76]

Yep this is my point, the what if game is kind of silly

Only thing is if Ray Ray misses that shot, they go home. If Paxson missed that shot against the Suns, they go to game 7.

That shot by Allen was yuuuuuuge.

 

[msgkings322]

Only thing is if Ray Ray misses that shot, they go home. If Paxson missed that shot against the Suns, they go to game 7.

That shot by Allen was yuuuuuuge.

But how does that shot affect how LeBron himself played? He played really really well that series, and he needed to to get it close enough for that shot to win it. We are evaluating a person not a team

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I don't see how some of you can't understand the 2 eras are totally different. 90s vs current NBA are NOT the same. Almost all teams now score over 100 points, but back in the 90s 4 or maybe 5 teams would average over 100 points. Which means more stats for these current teams, etc.


Say it with me.. c'mon 1 more time for shits and grins.


Lebron does not get a pass for as weak as the East has been for the majority of his career. That only balances it all out with the West being really good. But... Lebron is really good and has had some really good teams as well. And he didn't get it done.

Didnt get what done?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

He's also a Ray Allen miracle and injuries/ejections on GSW from being 1-7.

LMAO

Love the Ray Miracle angle

Lebron only had a triple double that game, and was super human as usual

But lets only remember the Ray shot, as if that shot would have meant shit if lebron wasnt destroying people all day

 

[SJ76]

Didnt get what done?

He didn't call you back?

 

[SJ76]

LMAO

Love the Ray Miracle angle

Lebron only had a triple double that game, and was super human as usual

But lets only remember the Ray shot, as if that shot would have meant shit if lebron wasnt destroying people all day

Triple doubles are his MO. Oscar too.


Hitting big shots wasn't/isn't. Ray got it done. All that was said was, if Ray misses that shot.. He's got one less ring.