This Rebuild

[SeattleCoug]

Well if this is the road they are going down this offseason thats fine, I just dont expect a contender by 2021

 

[SeattleCoug]

The Tigers are in the worst time of the rebuild ... No fans will not be willing to wait 7 years. There will be a lot of bitching. I am in favor of the rebuild, and I am a die hard Tigers fan. It is a hard thing to go through (as a fan).

I considered the Mariners and Tigers pretty similar last year. You guys at least started your process however a little sooner. The Mariners luckily were able to offload Cano whereas you guys I dont think will be as lucky with Cabrera. I guess at least you were able to taste a couple trips the WS in your run. I know that may mean little now but I think with Mariner fans we tend to not have a hope it will ever happen given the ownership group has more or less remained the same.

 

[SeattleCoug]

What about "starting over?"

That doesn't have a 're' to it.

In all seriousness though, semantics aside here is a hypothetical for you:

Say Dipoto was fired at the end of the 2018 season and you were named GM. Wouldn't you also take the same course of action by trading off anything worth a damn, building a decent farm system through those acquisitions, drafting and developing? I don't really see any other course of action the team could've taken. I think that finally going all in with this plan was really our only option.

I would have but I guess my response would be shouldnt he have been fired instead of extended a few months earlier? I've said it before he was hired to make the current situation work and get to the playoffs and failed to it in 3 years. So Dipoto failed at his job and instead of the consequence of being fired he was rewarded. Now we are changing course to do something Dipoto has never done.

After Jack Z was canned if the plan was to rebuild, is Dipoto still your GM of choice? I would think no, so why is he the choice now? Is it because they just extended him and dont want to admit a mistake? That's where my issue is. Now we are a year into this so you probably need to give him two more years but the point is, it doesn't really make sense.

 

[Duders]

I would have but I guess my response would be shouldnt he have been fired instead of extended a few months earlier? I've said it before he was hired to make the current situation work and get to the playoffs and failed to it in 3 years. So Dipoto failed at his job and instead of the consequence of being fired he was rewarded. Now we are changing course to do something Dipoto has never done.

After Jack Z was canned if the plan was to rebuild, is Dipoto still your GM of choice? I would think no, so why is he the choice now? Is it because they just extended him and dont want to admit a mistake? That's where my issue is. Now we are a year into this so you probably need to give him two more years but the point is, it doesn't really make sense.

Much of what the M's ownership has done, and continues to do has never really made any logical sense to me. It's no coincidence that the Mariners have the worse record for amount of time with no post season action.

 

[NWinAZ]

Well if this is the road they are going down this offseason thats fine, I just dont expect a contender by 2021

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This is what scares me. He doesn't want to sign any big free agents because he doesn't want the expectation meter to go up any time soon. There is no baseball reason not to go after big names if available. I am not saying Cano type deals, but a free agent that fits a need and is in the prime of his career that can be a cornerstone player needs to be targeted especially at SP. To say we are just not going to do it is reckless and to use the excuse they would have to overpay coming off a 90 loss season is just bull. They will have to overpay no matter what because Seattle is known as a loser baseball franchise.

Ug!

 

[mcnabb7542]

Some interesting comments from look out landing about the "rebuild"


www.lookoutlanding.com/2019/8/6/20756542/the-mariners-rebuild-stepback-valid-vs-invalid-arguments

 

[SeattleCoug]

This is what scares me. He doesn't want to sign any big free agents because he doesn't want the expectation meter to go up any time soon. There is no baseball reason not to go after big names if available. I am not saying Cano type deals, but a free agent that fits a need and is in the prime of his career that can be a cornerstone player needs to be targeted especially at SP. To say we are just not going to do it is reckless and to use the excuse they would have to overpay coming off a 90 loss season is just bull. They will have to overpay no matter what because Seattle is known as a loser baseball franchise.

Ug!

It just goes along the line of being half in and half out which is how they have spent pretty much the last 40 years. If you are rebuilding dont sell me on competing in 2 years, if you are competing then compete.

 

[wazzu31]

I would have but I guess my response would be shouldnt he have been fired instead of extended a few months earlier? I've said it before he was hired to make the current situation work and get to the playoffs and failed to it in 3 years. So Dipoto failed at his job and instead of the consequence of being fired he was rewarded. Now we are changing course to do something Dipoto has never done.

After Jack Z was canned if the plan was to rebuild, is Dipoto still your GM of choice? I would think no, so why is he the choice now? Is it because they just extended him and dont want to admit a mistake? That's where my issue is. Now we are a year into this so you probably need to give him two more years but the point is, it doesn't really make sense.

I think that is the frustrating thing is that they hire Jerry for 1 thing then now he gets to try something completely different. I could see an owner doing that with a GM who has equity/has done a good job in his previous job. But Jerry hasn’t and it just seems weird and completely against any real business decision that I know of.

 

[NWinAZ]

But Jerry hasn’t and it just seems weird and completely against any real business decision that I know of.

I agree with everything you wrote except the bold part. It has been a real business decision and a good one. It never made real baseball sense. The team continues to be profitable with the franchises value still growing. Now they even got the city to pay for some of their maintenance responsibility, and received a better park sponsorship deal.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I think that is the frustrating thing is that they hire Jerry for 1 thing then now he gets to try something completely different. I could see an owner doing that with a GM who has equity/has done a good job in his previous job. But Jerry hasn’t and it just seems weird and completely against any real business decision that I know of.

I am just going with failing to admit they hired the wrong guy. That's why this franchise holds onto GMs longer then they should. I guess pride is too big of a deal for them in that aspect even at the expense of everything else.

 

[NWinAZ]

I am just going with failing to admit they hired the wrong guy. That's why this franchise holds onto GMs longer then they should. I guess pride is too big of a deal for them in that aspect even at the expense of everything else.

Ownership is in the business of baseball field and not in the baseball field. Dipoto is charming and entertaining with his 100 trades a year and ownership understands fans enjoy this. Real baseball fans, or fans of baseball if you will, understand that it makes no sense but ownership doesn't care about those folks. It was the fans of entertainment to be happy.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Your last part is the concerning thing. The only real issues at least publicly are Chris Taylor and Michael Saunders of doing things that weren’t by the Mariners. Chris Taylor massively pointed to the Mariners sucking at player development while Saunders did alright but nothing to prove one way or the other on the player development side. Hell Edgar got essentially fired but Trumbo says Edgar teaching him a different approach is the only reason he is still in the big leagues.

That's why I say it's tough to say. There are so many variables. I recall that Trumbo improved drastically after Edgar was brought it, didn't see or hear his comments that you mentioned though.

Also another example is Justin Smoak. Not trying to imply he's some sort of superstar, but his 2017 and 2018 seasons were what we had expected from him when we acquired him.

As much as I approve of the "rebuild" and as excited as I am about our farm system, in the end most of these guys are just wildcards. For all we know in 2021 or 2022 or whatever, we may just be a young, cheap controllable team of underperforming former top prospects. I think that's my worst fear.

 

[NWinAZ]

For all we know in 2021 or 2022 or whatever, we may just be a young, cheap controllable team of underperforming former top prospects. I think that's my worst fear.

But it is a 'rebuild' and as long as you announce it as a 'rebuild', you are guaranteed to succeed.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I would have but I guess my response would be shouldnt he have been fired instead of extended a few months earlier? I've said it before he was hired to make the current situation work and get to the playoffs and failed to it in 3 years. So Dipoto failed at his job and instead of the consequence of being fired he was rewarded. Now we are changing course to do something Dipoto has never done.

After Jack Z was canned if the plan was to rebuild, is Dipoto still your GM of choice? I would think no, so why is he the choice now? Is it because they just extended him and dont want to admit a mistake? That's where my issue is. Now we are a year into this so you probably need to give him two more years but the point is, it doesn't really make sense.

Regarding the bolded point, I think he was extended under the stupid assumption that the Mariners were a legitimate playoff contender when he received that extension. Ownership should've recognized that the W/L record of the Mariners when he received that extension was not remotely reflective of the talent of the team or where that roster would be in 2019.

Obviously I don't know what the owners were thinking, but the Mariners had an 86 win team in 2016 - Dipoto's first season as GM I think - and fell into the trap of thinking that they were just a couple of players away from becoming a legitimate contender.

Even though we are a franchise of consistent mediocrity, I think engaging in a rebuild is a tough pill to swallow. That's why it hasn't been labeled as such by the franchise.

 

[seahawksfan234]

But it is a 'rebuild' and as long as you announce it as a 'rebuild', you are guaranteed to succeed.

For all the things the franchise does wrong, you've got to give their PR department some credit. They sure know how to keep the remaining fans complacent.

It just sucks because as excited as I am about our farm system, there is no guarantee is works out. The cumulative poor decisions over the past decade have left us in this awful situation.

 

[wazzu31]

I agree with everything you wrote except the bold part. It has been a real business decision and a good one. It never made real baseball sense. The team continues to be profitable with the franchises value still growing. Now they even got the city to pay for some of their maintenance responsibility, and received a better park sponsorship deal.

I can understand you feeling since it is still profitable, but it isn’t as profitable as a decently run sports franchise with money and population of the greater Seattle area. It’s an embarrassment on their part the still to be named NHL team has more support or the fact that the Sounders on their worst day draw more than the Mariners.

 

[wazzu31]

I am just going with failing to admit they hired the wrong guy. That's why this franchise holds onto GMs longer then they should. I guess pride is too big of a deal for them in that aspect even at the expense of everything else.

Well it’s just odd. I get the Bavasi hire on the heals of Gillick. Just they hire Jack Z because he was “analytical” or whatever but ownership allowed him to scrap that plan and ended up getting fired over it. Jerry wasn’t hire with a young roster or a farm system so in theory if he didn’t win at the big league level then there was no point in keeping him since he sucked with the Angels and his first try as the Mariners GM. I know he did something in Milwaukee but not sure what. I don’t follow them Jerry told us all over and over again he was with them when Jean Segura was there.

 

[NWinAZ]

I can understand you feeling since it is still profitable, but it isn’t as profitable as a decently run sports franchise with money and population of the greater Seattle area. It’s an embarrassment on their part the still to be named NHL team has more support or the fact that the Sounders on their worst day draw more than the Mariners.

I understand what you are saying because you are a real fan, but like when they started the competitive balance compensation a while back the Marlins made more money than the Yankees and were the worst team in the sport by a long shot. Sad, but that is the game we love. Like I have posted in the past, Howie said it best when he said making the playoffs is not profitable (the playoffs themselves).

 

[NWinAZ]

I don’t follow them Jerry told us all over and over again he was with them when Jean Segura was there.

I believe Jerry was with Angels when they traded Segura to Brewers.

July 27, 2012: Traded by the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim with Johnny Hellweg and Ariel Pena to the Milwaukee Brewers for Zack Greinke.

 

[AceKeptic]

No matter who we get in the front office, they wouldn't know how to rebuild if you gave them a set of LEGOs.