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This Rebuild

mcnabb7542

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I was driving home yesterday and was listening to one of the local sports stations and they were chatting about how the M’s and fans talk about this rebuild like what the Astros did and someone made the comment “ it took them 7 years to complete the rebuild!”

Of course that made me think, “will fans be that patient for the Ms to get this done?”

So would you be willing to wait 7 years for this to be a winning team again?
 

NWinAZ

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I was driving home yesterday and was listening to one of the local sports stations and they were chatting about how the M’s and fans talk about this rebuild like what the Astros did and someone made the comment “ it took them 7 years to complete the rebuild!”

Of course that made me think, “will fans be that patient for the Ms to get this done?”

So would you be willing to wait 7 years for this to be a winning team again?

Have already waited 18 and 37 out of 42 years. And I will say it again, there is no such thing as a rebuild. It is what teams/GM's sell fans to keep expectations low while still keeping the fans interest. If you can't draft, can't develop, or trade/sign the right players, it never comes about. Those options are available to every team in every year. Astros did it by finally drafting and developing. They had high draft picks throughout their years but missed until recently and still missed on several high picks. Those hits in drafting allow them to spend more on vets and use the extras to trade for proven talent. It is a whole process and not just a reset or rebuild or reimagine.
 

mcnabb7542

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Have already waited 18 and 37 out of 42 years. And I will say it again, there is no such thing as a rebuild. It is what teams/GM's sell fans to keep expectations low while still keeping the fans interest. If you can't draft, can't develop, or trade/sign the right players, it never comes about. Those options are available to every team in every year. Astros did it by finally drafting and developing. They had high draft picks throughout their years but missed until recently and still missed on several high picks. Those hits in drafting allow them to spend more on vets and use the extras to trade for proven talent. It is a whole process and not just a reset or rebuild or reimagine.

Okay fine call it what you want but are you will to wait?
 

Duders

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I was driving home yesterday and was listening to one of the local sports stations and they were chatting about how the M’s and fans talk about this rebuild like what the Astros did and someone made the comment “ it took them 7 years to complete the rebuild!”

Of course that made me think, “will fans be that patient for the Ms to get this done?”

So would you be willing to wait 7 years for this to be a winning team again?

Whether I would be willing or not doesn't really matter. Now if you asked would I be OK with waiting 7 years....the answer would be a resounding NO!! It sucks to think it would be some 25 years before we saw legitimate post play again. :L
 

NWinAZ

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Okay fine call it what you want but are you will to wait?

My point wasn't what to call it but the fact it doesn't exist. A rebuild is a wait and see until all the parts finally fit on a given year. Was 1995 a rebuild or a final coming of things good? 2001? No, they finally hit on vets with a sprinkle of youngsters helping out at the same time. None of it was blue printed or conceived, it just finally came about.

So I have literally been waiting since 2001 for it to happen with M's various management using different methods to make it happen. This is just one more attempt and nothing more.

So like Duders said, if you are asking me if I am willing to wait 7 more years for a playoff team then NO. Will it take 7 more years? At least if they don't make the right moves at the right time. And remember, in 7 years 98% of the kids of the future will be in their early 30's except Kelenic and good share of them long gone for various of reasons or very expensive if they pan out. The window to take advantage of the kids (if they become what we need them to be) is two to three years then it becomes flush and restart again.
 

wazzu31

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I was driving home yesterday and was listening to one of the local sports stations and they were chatting about how the M’s and fans talk about this rebuild like what the Astros did and someone made the comment “ it took them 7 years to complete the rebuild!”

Of course that made me think, “will fans be that patient for the Ms to get this done?”

So would you be willing to wait 7 years for this to be a winning team again?

As a fan you kind of have to. Forgive me hockey and soccer fans, there isn’t another pro team to latch onto since the Sonics left. It use to be watch the Sonics until late May early June, watch the Mariners from mid June to early August when football camps started then rinse and repeat.
 

seattlefan75

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It did not take the astros 7 years to rebuild unless you want to count from the day they started rebuilding to the day they won the world series then that is 7 years but the Astros drafted George Springer in 2010 the new and current GM took over in 2011 and drafted Carlos Correra and by the 2015 season they won 86 games started being competitive
 

mcnabb7542

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As a fan you kind of have to. Forgive me hockey and soccer fans, there isn’t another pro team to latch onto since the Sonics left. It use to be watch the Sonics until late May early June, watch the Mariners from mid June to early August when football camps started then rinse and repeat.

Yeah Im not an NBA so my filler is College Basketball up until the Natty game and by then Baseball season opens up.

But I hear what you're saying.....

Though I did attend a couple Sounders game ( not a soccer guy) but I really enjoyed attend those games in person. And Hockey well tried a TBirds match once left before the 1st period was over so hockey will never be entertaining to me
 

SeattleCoug

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Dipoto has said he thinks/wants this team to compete in 2021. If thats the case I think the most of the major selling off is done.

What I dont think can be assumed is the all the current prospects can fill all the holes that we have currently. Probably still will be a lot more dealing then assuming these guys have spots in 2021. Other then maybe Crawford, these guys probably have higher values now as prospects then as major leaguers.

The other questions are what do you do with Mitch and Marco Gonzalez. Do you trade or extend? I lean extension for Mitch and trade for Gonzalez. I think the market value for Gonzalez will probably be decent this winter. $ 1 million per year for a 3 WAR pitcher is also great value and with him I think we probably missed the window for a team friendly deal and I dont think its wise to wait until he hits arbitration to do something. Mitch on the other I think now is the cheapest time to extend him given his age and injury this year. The major difference in him this year pre-injury was a huge BABIP drop off compared to his previous years. Otherwise his peripherals were very similar to 2017/2018.

Regardless it should be an interesting off-season. I think we should be able to tell whether 2021 is a pipe dream or not based on a lot of what happens this winter.
 

wazzu31

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Yeah Im not an NBA so my filler is College Basketball up until the Natty game and by then Baseball season opens up.

But I hear what you're saying.....

Though I did attend a couple Sounders game ( not a soccer guy) but I really enjoyed attend those games in person. And Hockey well tried a TBirds match once left before the 1st period was over so hockey will never be entertaining to me

Well I guess I’d lump college basketball in with the NBA, much like there are people who don’t like college football but like the NFL or vice versa.
 

mcnabb7542

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I think they are buyers this offseason and next, younger free agents and they roll out into 2021 looking for the playoff berth, then move forward from there.

I hope Crawford is not the trade bait, Marte is still many years away and Crawford has shown he can hit and play solid defense.....
 

SeattleCoug

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I think they are buyers this offseason and next, younger free agents and they roll out into 2021 looking for the playoff berth, then move forward from there.

I hope Crawford is not the trade bait, Marte is still many years away and Crawford has shown he can hit and play solid defense.....

I dont think he will be. I just more or less meant some other guys in the system have more value now as prospects. Crawford on the other hand has had a taste of the majors, went through a slump and seems to have adjusted a little so i think his value should be higher now then last winter if that makes sense
 

mcnabb7542

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I dont think he will be. I just more or less meant some other guys in the system have more value now as prospects. Crawford on the other hand has had a taste of the majors, went through a slump and seems to have adjusted a little so i think his value should be higher now then last winter if that makes sense

Totally makes sense
 

seahawksfan234

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I was driving home yesterday and was listening to one of the local sports stations and they were chatting about how the M’s and fans talk about this rebuild like what the Astros did and someone made the comment “ it took them 7 years to complete the rebuild!”

Of course that made me think, “will fans be that patient for the Ms to get this done?”

So would you be willing to wait 7 years for this to be a winning team again?

Mariners fans are too complacent to realistically put pressure on ownership and the front office. Keep in mind that there are kids who are about to turn 18 who have never been alive to see the Mariners even make the playoffs.

Even among people my age - despite everyone being a Seahawks fan - when asked why I'm reading an article on the Mariners or looking at the box score, I'm asked why I care because "The Mariners suck."
 

mcnabb7542

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Mariners fans are too complacent to realistically put pressure on ownership and the front office. Keep in mind that there are kids who are about to turn 18 who have never been alive to see the Mariners even make the playoffs.

Even among people my age - despite everyone being a Seahawks fan - when asked why I'm reading an article on the Mariners or looking at the box score, I'm asked why I care because "The Mariners suck."

Damn it every time I read your responses I feel old or dirty and I need to go shower
 

Chewbaccer

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If you have the right pieces in place, a rebuild doesn't have to take that long.

Braves started their rebuild prior to the 2015 season, they made the playoffs last season.

Hell the Yankees had a slight rebuild where they basically restocked their farm system by trading away two relievers and never had a losing season in the process.
 

seahawksfan234

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Damn it every time I read your responses I feel old or dirty and I need to go shower

That's how I feel every time I think about the fact that there are MLB/NFL stars younger than me.

The bigger point I'm trying to make is that mediocrity is just an expectation from this team unfortunately. Even during the "glory years" if you want to call them that, they were preceded by decades of mediocrity.

Unfortunately a rebuild or whatever you want to call it, is the best and only option this team has and unless you're willing to just stop caring - which I can't - we just have to accept the results and hope for the best.

One thing to be optimistic about is that in the last 300 days or so, the Mariners have gone from having the worst farm system in baseball to having a top-10 farm system with many of our prospects outperforming and/or meeting expectations thus far.
 

seahawksfan234

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If you have the right pieces in place, a rebuild doesn't have to take that long.

Braves started their rebuild prior to the 2015 season, they made the playoffs last season.

Hell the Yankees had a slight rebuild where they basically restocked their farm system by trading away two relievers and never had a losing season in the process.

Unfortunately most of the talent in the Mariners minor league system is a year or two away from becoming MLB regulars if everything works out. Then they'll have to deal with rookie growing pains in the latter half of 2020 and 2021. As things stand right now, our best bet for being realistic playoff contenders is 2022 if the youngsters pan out.
 

Chewbaccer

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Unfortunately most of the talent in the Mariners minor league system is a year or two away from becoming MLB regulars if everything works out. Then they'll have to deal with rookie growing pains in the latter half of 2020 and 2021. As things stand right now, our best bet for being realistic playoff contenders is 2022 if the youngsters pan out.

When the Braves started their rebuild, they had the worst ranked farm system in the Majors, and it was ranked number 1 or 2 depending on which source you use a couple years later, and we did that without trading away Freddie Freeman, who would have brought back a king's ransom.
 

SeattleCoug

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If you have the right pieces in place, a rebuild doesn't have to take that long.

Braves started their rebuild prior to the 2015 season, they made the playoffs last season.

Hell the Yankees had a slight rebuild where they basically restocked their farm system by trading away two relievers and never had a losing season in the process.

Very envious of the Braves. You guys should be a factor for a while not to mention those are very team friendly deals that Acuna and Albies signed for. Plus i think the rest of the NL East team may have already missed their windows to be great so they are just kinda hanging on
 
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