The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Took over a team midseason that started 1-7, but was 11-5 the year prior. Finished 6-10 that season, 8-8 the next 3, 12-4 in 2014 in the fluke season that Romo stayed healthy, and bottomed out to 4-12 last year. He started with a better squad, plays in an easier division. 45-43 overall.

Starting with a better squad isn't an excuse anymore, after 2 or 3 seasons of drafts and signings(especially after the RGIII trade), its your team, what you started with means virtually nothing

So going 12-4 in 2014 was a fluke season? OK fine, so where is OUR fluke season? Where is our ONE winning season? Where is our ONE division title. As I said to Vita, our division being better isn't an excuse since we do just fine in those games. Its the rest of the NFL we struggle with. Basically, our team acts like division games are the Superbowl and the rest barely exist. The NFL is about consistancy, and we don't seem to have any after 5 years...

Fisher and crew have made many terrible/questionable draft decisions, many terrible/questionable free agency signings, and still can't seem to put together a quality offensive staff(where is the "dream team" were were promised?).

I'm shocked people are still willing to be patient with him at this point...

 

[Vitamike]

The only way to judge success in the NFL is wins and losses. Progress means nothing if it doesn't eventually translate into wins. Five years is long enough for eventually to happen. Can you name another coach who has been given this long a time without making the playoffs once? It just doesn't happen. Why? because EVERY team has talented guys, its up to the coach to put it together, make it work and turn it into wins.

Let's also be clear, we're talking about Jeff Fisher here, not Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson or Bill Bellichick or Chucky or Cowher. If a guy like Parcells who has actually WON superbowls needed a couple extra years, that would be different.

You are talking about Jeff Fisher, I was not and said so.

My reply was to yours about 'no one should get that kind of time' and we were talking about 4 years in and given a 5th.

I personally think 5 years is far enough time to go to wins and losses, but I will add, if they sign off on a move up in the draft like the one we did this off season to get a No. 1 QB to fit into the plan, then the Rams execs too are signing off on at least two more years.

This is just another reason why I was not in favor of drafting a first round QB or trading up.

I felt Jeff had this season to make the playoffs with what he has built in the last four years and should be able to get a serviceable QB to make that sort of progress.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

You are talking about Jeff Fisher, I was not and said so.

My reply was to yours about 'no one should get that kind of time' and we were talking about 4 years in and given a 5th.

I personally think 5 years is far enough time to go to wins and losses, but I will add, if they sign off on a move up in the draft like the one we did this off season to get a No. 1 QB to fit into the plan, then the Rams execs too is signing off on at least two more years.

This is just another reason why I was not in favor of drafting a first round QB or trading up.

I felt Jeff had this season to make the playoffs with what he has built in the last four years and should be able to get a serviceable QB to make that sort of progress.

The trade up or not, rookie QB or not, he should still be expected to make the playoffs this season. He has Keenum, technically still has Foles(especially since its now looking like Fitz should be back with the Jets) and nothing says Goff has to start right away.

 

[Vitamike]

The trade up or not, rookie QB or not, he should still be expected to make the playoffs this season. He has Keenum, technically still has Foles(especially since its now looking like Fitz should be back with the Jets) and nothing says Goff has to start right away.

We are agreeing on the same principle points here LTRF, I'm not sure if you realize this or not.

I'm just saying, the Rams front office, by way of signing off on the trade up deal, have a de facto commitment to Goff under Fisher for the next 2 years unless he totally stinks up the League. Whether you, I or any of us like it or not.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

We are agreeing here LTRF, I'm not sure if you realize this or not.

I'm just saying, the Rams front office, by way of signing off on the trade up deal, have a de facto commitment to Goff under Fisher for the next 2 years unless he totally stinks up the League. Whether you, I or any of us like it or not.

Oh I know we are however, if this season turns into a disaster, lets hope it doesn't take 2 years for a change. With no 1st or 3rd rounder next year, kinda hamstrings us. Of course it would also hamstring a new coach coming in which is just as bad/if not worse...

 

[Vitamike]

Oh I know we are however, if this season turns into a disaster, lets hope it doesn't take 2 years for a change. With no 1st or 3rd rounder next year, kinda hamstrings us. Of course it would also hamstring a new coach coming in which is just as bad/if not worse...

Right, and that's what I meant about using circumstance as markers rather than pure wins and losses.

Does anyone else wonder what a Greg Williams led team would look like?

Man, I'd hate to move on from Greg if we move on from Fisher.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Right, and that's what I meant about using circumstance as markers rather than pure wins and losses.

Does anyone else wonder what a Greg Williams led team would look like?

Man, I'd hate to move on from Greg if we move on from Fisher.

I would have NO problem with giving a guy like Williams a shot, but ONLY if he hired some top flight offensive coordinators to complement his D...

 

[shopson67]

Starting with a better squad isn't an excuse anymore, after 2 or 3 seasons of drafts and signings(especially after the RGIII trade), its your team, what you started with means virtually nothing

So going 12-4 in 2014 was a fluke season? OK fine, so where is OUR fluke season? Where is our ONE winning season? Where is our ONE division title. As I said to Vita, our division being better isn't an excuse since we do just fine in those games. Its the rest of the NFL we struggle with. Basically, our team acts like division games are the Superbowl and the rest barely exist. The NFL is about consistancy, and we don't seem to have any after 5 years...

Fisher and crew have made many terrible/questionable draft decisions, many terrible/questionable free agency signings, and still can't seem to put together a quality offensive staff(where is the "dream team" were were promised?).

I'm shocked people are still willing to be patient with him at this point...

Starting with a better squad absolutely matters. Gee, he turned a playoff team into a playoff team in a terrible division? That's some great coaching! The Rams' roster needed to be almost completely replaced.

That season was a fluke only because Romo managed to stay healthy (along with Demarco). It's tough to get a division title when there's a representative from your division in the NFC championship game, if not the Super Bowl, seemingly every year.

Care to name all these terrible/questionable draft decisions? Free agency decisions are tougher, in that the players can choose where they want to sign.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Starting with a better squad absolutely matters. Gee, he turned a playoff team into a playoff team in a terrible division? That's some great coaching! The Rams' roster needed to be almost completely replaced.

That season was a fluke only because Romo managed to stay healthy (along with Demarco). It's tough to get a division title when there's a representative from your division in the NFC championship game, if not the Super Bowl, seemingly every year.

Care to name all these terrible/questionable draft decisions? Free agency decisions are tougher, in that the players can choose where they want to sign.

Really? Dallas was a playoff team in 2010? how about 2011 when he was officially named head coach? 2012?2013? Nope to all of them. You see, he's actually had this thing called a winning season. That's when you have more wins than losses. As for their season being a fluke, call it what you want, they still won their division and had a winning record, something we haven't done in about a decade and as I've said OVER and OVER, it's not about the teams in our division, we don't get the job done with the teams OUTSIDE our division.

Now lets get to the draft and are you for real? Fisher has taken 3 or 4 good players and all the sudden he's a great draft guy? OK, here we go...Pettis, Salas, Pead, Givens, trading up for Tavon, Barrett Jones, Greg Robinson, Tre Mason, Mannion, Quick, should I keep going? because that's 10 questionable picks from the first 4 rounds right there.
Let's not forget the 6th rounder we took last year who retired before even taking the field(that was SOLID drafting!!!) How about Michael Sam? We didn't need a DE but we took him because, why exactly? publicity?(another SOLID pick!!!) I want wins, not publicity...

Would you please remind us all of the last time a Fisher coached team made the playoffs? just a hint, its been almost a DECADE now!!! Also, how many winning seasons has he had in his 20+ year career?

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

And now a brief comedy break...I love these scenes...

 

[Smed55]

As far has I'm concerned we have already seen what Fisher can do, or rather what he can't do! It's not just his shitty Ram record, he hasn't been a successful coach the majority of his career! I still think Buffalo was robbed in the Music City Mracle game, Tennesssee was "lucky" to even get to the SB!
Fisher has already been given umpteen chances, he doesn't "deserve" another 3 years, let alone ONE! Screw the injury excuse, he has made many questionable on field decisions, as far as players that he has kept or played ahead of others, his horrendous challenges during games, his questionable choices for assistant coaches, etc, etc, etc

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

As far has I'm concerned we have already seen what Fisher can do, or rather what he can't do! It's not just his shitty Ram record, he hasn't been a successful coach the majority of his career! I still think Buffalo was robbed in the Music City Mracle game, Tennesssee was "lucky" to even get to the SB!
Fisher has already been given umpteen chances, he doesn't "deserve" another 3 years, let alone ONE! Screw the injury excuse, he has made many questionable on field decisions, as far as players that he has kept or played ahead of others, his horrendous challenges during games, his questionable choices for assistant coaches, etc, etc, etc

 

[zeke2829]

All Aboard the Fisher Kool Aid Train of Hope! ......Shops driving!.....chug ...chug ...chug!!

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Was also just thinking...When Fisher got here, his first season with a roster that was "so devoid of talent" as some are saying, we went 7-8-1...Four seasons later with a roster full of "his handpicked guys" we went 7-9, we actually finished WORSE...

Look, I of course WANT Fisher to be successful, but not sure how anyone can expect him to be at this point. In four years he has kept this team steadily mediocre. Now we have a rookie QB to deal with and the loss of future draft picks. After all, Goff is going to need some serious talent to throw to but how will we get them?

 

[Retroram52]

Precisely LTR. There is just way too much evidence to indicate that Fisher is a complete fraud and that limp biscuit of an owner is just as braindead.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Precisely LTR. There is just way too much evidence to indicate that Fisher is a complete fraud and that limp biscuit of an owner is just as braindead.

Well, when it come to making money, that's most definitely not true about Kroenke. Not sure if you've seen this, but Arsenal, the second place team, made MILLIONS more than first place(because of TV revenue)...

Arsenal top Premier League payments, four clubs earn more than Leicester

 

[Vitamike]

Just for giggles...

I gotta add this to all the history buffs who love using the Fisher history book to make their point on why Fish should be fired.

Remember that little fact going around here about the last head coach to keep his job after 4 years without a winning season?

Yeah, and that guy too was Jeff Fisher. Ha ha, good one..... Well, in short it plays out well, nice trivia to make your point.

But if you go there, it's fair to ask, what followed those 4 years of mediocrity?

His team, after moving out of Houston and into Nashville, by the end of their second season in Tennessee, along with the second year QB starter, a phenomenal talent at RB and a damned good defense, were about a foot away from winning the Super Bowl. (Save that last part, sound familiar?)

Now, I don't have this kool-aide of hope thing going on for Fisher here, but if we're gonna talk about history in our argument against Fish, we can't be so selective.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Just for giggles...

I gotta add this to all the history buffs who love using the Fisher history book to make their point on why Fish should be fired.

Remember that little fact going around here about the last head coach to keep his job after 4 years without a winning season?

Yeah, and that guy too was Jeff Fisher. Ha ha, good one..... Well, in short it plays out well, nice trivia to make your point.

But if you go there, it's fair to ask, what followed those 4 years of mediocrity?

His team, after moving out of Houston and into Nashville, by the end of their second season in Tennessee, along with the second year QB starter, a phenomenal talent at RB and a damned good defense, were about a foot away from winning the Super Bowl. (Save that last part, sound familiar?)

Now, I don't have this kool-aide of hope thing going on for Fisher here, but if we're gonna talk about history in our argument against Fish, we can't be so selective.

Vita, I respect what you're saying, but a few things...

First of all, they were a foot from TYING the superbowl, not winning it. HUGE difference!!!

Second, yes those 4 years of mediocrity were followed by a couple years of success, but he also had a QB ready to go, not a green rookie who hasn't taken a snap from center since he was 14 years old...

Third, we have an o-line who is only in their second year and a left tackle who will HOPEFULLY come back solid after his offseason training(but has been crap so far). It also doesn't help that we are the ONLY team not running OTA's right now...

Bottom line, while there is SOME reason for hope, Fisher's lacksidaisical attitude doesn't inspire much confidence right now. It's not like we're a powerhouse coming off a spectacular season and couldn't use the extra practice time...

 

[Vitamike]

First of all, they were a foot from TYING the superbowl, not winning it. HUGE difference!!!

Good point, a foot away from extending the game and not losing in that moment but my actual point is that season that followed all them 8-8 seasons was the 13-3 Super Bowl season that was about as close as one can get without winning it.

Second, yes those 4 years of mediocrity were followed by a couple years of success, but he also had a QB ready to go, not a green rookie who hasn't taken a snap from center since he was 14 years old...

The 13-3 Superbowl season followed the four seasons with out a winning season & like I said, it was with Steve Mc Nair as a second year starter, Steve did sit his first year but he did have the AFC's 4th best QB in Chris Chandler his rookie year ahead of him. Steve too had his own pressures as being the highest black QB selected in the draft to that point in time.

Third, we have an o-line who is only in their second year and a left tackle who will HOPEFULLY come back solid after his offseason training(but has been crap so far). It also doesn't help that we are the ONLY team not running OTA's right now...

In what could be Goff's second year as a starter, could also be this o-line's fourth year as a unit and the LT spot could be serviceable by then.

Just to be clear, I really wanted this to be Fisher's make or break year. I thought they could find a QB that could fit his team by way of trade. Ya'll know I thought they should have gone after Kaepernick because he proved to me he could win with a stout defense, and a talented running back. Then use all them picks to bolster the offensive side of the ball with early round studs.

If Fisher couldn't crack the playoffs by years end, he'd be gone.

Well, as we all know, it didn't play out like that.

We traded our draft stock to get the kid at QB. Now we are back to square one with Fish where we need to commit to the young QB and provide stability on the front office side for Goff to have success.

Call it good money after bad or what ever you want but none of us committed to this trade up, the Rams' brass did (Which means 2 or 3 more years of Fish) and none of us can change that, like it or not.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Good point, a foot away from extending the game and not losing in that moment but my actual point is that season that followed all them 8-8 seasons was the 13-3 Super Bowl season that was about as close as one can get without winning it.

The 13-3 Superbowl season followed the four seasons with out a winning season & like I said, it was with Steve Mc Nair as a second year starter, Steve did sit his first year but he did have the AFC's 4th best QB in Chris Chandler his rookie year ahead of him. Steve too had his own pressures as being the highest black QB selected in the draft to that point in time.

In what could be Goff's second year as a starter, could also be this o-line's fourth year as a unit and the LT spot could be serviceable by then.

Just to be clear, I really wanted this to be Fisher's make or break year. I thought they could find a QB that could fit his team by way of trade. Ya'll know I thought they should have gone after Kaepernick because he proved to me he could win with a stout defense, and a talented running back. Then use all them picks to bolster the offensive side of the ball with early round studs.

If Fisher couldn't crack the playoffs by years end, he'd be gone.

Well, as we all know, it didn't play out like that.

We traded our draft stock to get the kid at QB. Now we are back to square one with Fish where we need to commit to the young QB and provide stability on the front office side for Goff to have success.

Call it good money after bad or what ever you want but none of us committed to this trade up, the Rams' brass did (Which means 2 or 3 more years of Fish) and none of us can change that, like it or not.

The main problem I see with Goff's second year is the lack of a first and third round pick to improve after this season. Plus, a ton of our cap room will have to be reserved to re-sign guys like Brockers, Donald, Ogletree,Tavon, Robinson(maybe), etc...