The Master Vent Thread-Negativity Within-Enter at Your Own Risk

[Retroram52]

And one Jeff Fisher was the HC. Figures. This guy is nothing short of a drama queen and little else. That is why we suck year-in and year-out.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

And one Jeff Fisher was the HC. Figures. This guy is nothing short of a drama queen and little else. That is why we suck year-in and year-out.

Pretty much...I can't believe he gets SO many chances with SO little actual production on the field...

 

[Vitamike]

Pretty much...I can't believe he gets SO many chances with SO little actual production on the field...

Not that I totally agree, but I believe the thinking draws from a variety of factors:

1. Upon his arrival, the need to turnover the roster ~95% utilizing the draft to do so, and being financially prudent in the process.
2. Posting a winning record in the tough NFC West.
   
3. Having a closely contested Superbowl game on his resume.
   
4. Having a franchise move on his resume. (With the Superbowl coming in the second season after the move)
5. Having his starting QB have a season ending ACL 2 years straight during his 4 year as Head Coach.
6. Drafting Rookies of the year in the last two seasons.

Fisher has two, maybe three years to make the playoffs. If he doesn't, he will never see the Inglewood Stadium sidelines as the Rams Head Coach.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Not that I totally agree, but I believe the thinking draws from a variety of factors:

1. Upon his arrival, the need to turnover the roster ~95% utilizing the draft to do so, and being financially prudent in the process.
2. Posting a winning record in the tough NFC West.
   
3. Having a closely contested Superbowl game on his resume.
   
4. Having a franchise move on his resume. (With the Superbowl coming in the second season after the move)
5. Having his starting QB have a season ending ACL 2 years straight during his tenure.
6. Drafting Rookies of the year in the last two seasons.

Fisher has two, maybe three years to make the playoffs. If he doesn't, he will never see the Inglewood Stadium sidelines as the Rams Head Coach.

In some ways I agree...But here are my responses...

1. Many coaches have to almost completely turn their roster over within their first few years.
2. While the NFC West is certainly tough, you have to beat the rest of the NFL as well...
3. Who cares about a Super Bowl game he lost at this point? that was almost 20 years ago now...
4. Still don't understand the significance of him being involved in a previous franchise move. Unless you have a VERY weak minded coach, this shouldn't even be a problem/consideration.
5. Well, Andrew Luck was lost for the season but the Colts still almost made the playoffs. Good teams who are well coached find ways to win.
6. Yes, we drafted the ROY's the past two years, but we're still not a winning team.

2 or 3 more years to make the playoffs? Seriously? So he gets almost a decade to turn this franchise around? NO ONE gets that kind of time/should need that kind of time in the NFL.

 

[Vitamike]

In some ways I agree...But here are my responses...

1. Many coaches have to almost completely turn their roster over within their first few years.
2. While the NFC West is certainly tough, you have to beat the rest of the NFL as well...
3. Who cares about a Super Bowl game he lost at this point? that was almost 20 years ago now...
4. Still don't understand the significance of him being involved in a previous franchise move. Unless you have a VERY weak minded coach, this shouldn't even be a problem/consideration.
5. Well, Andrew Luck was lost for the season but the Colts still almost made the playoffs. Good teams who are well coached find ways to win.
6. Yes, we drafted the ROY's the past two years, but we're still not a winning team.

2 or 3 more years to make the playoffs? Seriously? So he gets almost a decade to turn this franchise around? NO ONE gets that kind of time/should need that kind of time in the NFL.

Sure we can argue anyone of those points individually, however I'm sure they are considered collectively.

As far as your last statement goes, I don't agree with your opinion on 'no one should get that kind of time'.

I'm not believer in the 'win now' or get canned philosophy. Now I'm not saying this just in regards to Fisher but regarding football coaching in general. To do it right, it can take time and I want something that's built to last.

I think the writing can be on the wall on whether the coach has the ability to get the job done or not and that should be the primary factor. I had no patience for Spags or Linehan, both talented Coordinators, however it was obvious that the coordinator role was their niche, not the head coach role. Mike Martz was another example of just this point.

Do you think the Browns org ever regretted firing Bill Belicheat after 4 years of mediocrity? Who knows where that organization would be today had they stuck with the talented coach a little longer instead of canning him.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Sure we can argue anyone of those points individually, however I'm sure they are considered collectively.

As far as your last statement goes, I don't agree with your opinion on 'no one should get that kind of time'.

I'm not believer in the 'win now' or get canned philosophy. Now I'm not saying this just in regards to Fisher but regarding football coaching in general. To do it right, it can take time and I want something that's built to last.

I think the writing can be on the wall on whether the coach has the ability to get the job done or not and that should be the primary factor. I had no patience for Spags or Linehan, both talented Coordinators, however it was obvious that the coordinator role was their niche, not the head coach role. Mike Martz was another example of just this point.

Do you think the Browns org ever regretted firing Bill Belicheat after 4 years of mediocrity? Who knows where that organization would be today had they stuck with the talented coach a little longer instead of canning him.

But if a guy doesn't lead his team to wins, how can you judge his success on "getting the job done"? There HAS to be some measuring stick on improvement, if it isn't wins, what is it?

 

[Retroram52]

The difference is Belicheat went on and proved that his mediocrity in Cleveland was a fluke because Cleveland was unwilling to let Belicheat continue with his "system". With four rings and counting in his pocket, Belicheat has proven he doesn't need any more time to get to winning seasons. Fisher has yet to do anything that Belicheat has accomplished with the same pre-superbowl scenario as Belicheat. He continues to linger in mediocrity and as you stated Vita, Fisher's next three years or so will be the final chapter if he continues what he has accomplished in the last four years.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

The difference is Belicheat went on and proved that his mediocrity in Cleveland was a fluke because Cleveland was unwilling to let Belicheat continue with his "system". With four rings and counting in his pocket, Belicheat has proven he doesn't need any more time to get to winning seasons. Fisher has yet to do anything that Belicheat has accomplished with the same pre-superbowl scenario as Belicheat. He continues to linger in mediocrity and as you stated Vita, Fisher's next three years or so will be the final chapter if he continues what he has accomplished in the last four years.

In a way, I guess it doesn't quite matter at this point, does it? If this Goff trade doesn't work out, we'll be mired in mediocrity for possibly another 5 years...

 

[Retroram52]

Especially with our margin for error reduced with no first and third next year.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Especially with our margin for error reduced with no first and third next year.

Exactly, saw an article recently that had our pick as #2 in next years draft I sure hope not

 

[Vitamike]

The difference is Belicheat went on and proved that his mediocrity in Cleveland was a fluke because Cleveland was unwilling to let Belicheat continue with his "system". With four rings and counting in his pocket, Belicheat has proven he doesn't need any more time to get to winning seasons. Fisher has yet to do anything that Belicheat has accomplished with the same pre-superbowl scenario as Belicheat. He continues to linger in mediocrity and as you stated Vita, Fisher's next three years or so will be the final chapter if he continues what he has accomplished in the last four years.

I wasn't using Belicheat as an example to excuse Fisher Retro, I thought that was clear. I used Belicheat as an example as to why I disagree with LTRF's opinion on why 'no one should get that kind of time'.

I honestly wanted Fisher to continue to use his draft stock wisely, not trade it all away to get the number 1 overall pick. This to me, is only an example of why the 'win now' or get canned philosophy is detrimental to a goal of a built to last plan. It is a panic sell out that throws caution to the wind in the hope of hitting the NFL QB jackpot. If it works, we all will be glad to eat crow for years to come, if not well at least we are all familiar with what is to come. LOL

Now Fisher may get three years with out getting to the playoffs but only with a unique or special set of circumstances. Really for most scenarios, if he doesn't get to the playoffs by the finish of the 2017 season, he's gone. As a matter of fact, it was those collective circumstances that got him this far in the first place, and drafting the No. 1 Rookie QB overall, the Franchise hopeful, gets him at least two more years, save any finish of 4-12 or worse in 2016.

 

[Vitamike]

But if a guy doesn't lead his team to wins, how can you judge his success on "getting the job done"? There HAS to be some measuring stick on improvement, if it isn't wins, what is it?

True leadership never leans on 'the book' to judge performance. Sure, having quantifiable and measurable standards are useful & necessary, but circumstance and justifications too are useful tools in making good business decisions.

To me it's pretty simple, is there continuous improvement? Are we better off today than we were four years ago? Try to forget about solid markers like wins and losses for now, are we a better team or not?

If so, is there a solid plan in place that seeks to build upon the progresses made? Continuous improvement is a process of ongoing effort that can come all at once however is far more likely to come over incremental periods of time. A change of leadership will often cause a new beginning. Once again, look no further than the Cleveland Browns as a good example of this.

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

True leadership never leans on 'the book' to judge performance. Sure, having quantifiable and measurable standards are useful & necessary, but circumstance and justifications too are useful tools in making good business decisions.

To me it's pretty simple, is there continuous improvement? Are we better off today than we were four years ago? Try to forget about solid markers like wins and losses for now, are we a better team or not?

If so, is there a solid plan in place that seeks to build upon the progresses made? Continuous improvement is a process of ongoing effort that can come all at once however is far more likely to come over incremental periods of time. A change of leadership will often cause a new beginning. Once again, look no further than the Cleveland Browns as a good example of this.

The only way to judge success in the NFL is wins and losses. Progress means nothing if it doesn't eventually translate into wins. Five years is long enough for eventually to happen. Can you name another coach who has been given this long a time without making the playoffs once? It just doesn't happen. Why? because EVERY team has talented guys, its up to the coach to put it together, make it work and turn it into wins.

Let's also be clear, we're talking about Jeff Fisher here, not Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson or Bill Bellichick or Chucky or Cowher. If a guy like Parcells who has actually WON superbowls needed a couple extra years, that would be different.

 

[shopson67]

Jason Garrett?

 

[LongtimeRamsFan42]

Jason Garrett?

Pretty sure Garrett has made the playoffs and won the division just a couple years ago which is more than we can say for Jeffy-boy...

 

[Retroram52]

The only way to judge success in the NFL is wins and losses. Progress means nothing if it doesn't eventually translate into wins. Five years is long enough for eventually to happen. Can you name another coach who has been given this long a time without making the playoffs once? It just doesn't happen. Why? because EVERY team has talented guys, its up to the coach to put it together, make it work and turn it into wins.

Let's also be clear, we're talking about Jeff Fisher here, not Bill Parcells or Jimmy Johnson or Bill Bellichick or Chucky or Cowher. If a guy like Parcells who has actually WON superbowls needed a couple extra years, that would be different.

Precisely LTR.

 

[zeke2829]

If Shopson had his way, he would probably bring back Scott Linehan!

 

[shopson67]

Pretty sure Garrett has made the playoffs and won the division just a couple years ago which is more than we can say for Jeffy-boy...

Took over a team midseason that started 1-7, but was 11-5 the year prior. Finished 6-10 that season, 8-8 the next 3, 12-4 in 2014 in the fluke season that Romo stayed healthy, and bottomed out to 4-12 last year. He started with a better squad, plays in an easier division. 45-43 overall.

 

[Retroram52]

Slowly, one-by-one, the pundits are stating what many of us have been stating all along about Fisher and the year's trade. Nick Waggoner reports on ESPN's Barnwell rating of the Rams.

Rams get a 'C' for their offseason work

 

[shopson67]

If Shopson had his way, he would probably bring back Scott Linehan!

Hell no, keep your sick thoughts to yourself!

I'm frustrated at the lack of improvement, but how many coaches survive taking over a team as bad as the Rams were when Fisher took over? Even he is only still here on some questionable name recognition. Other than the blip of hope we got with that Bradford rookie 7-9 season, the Rams hadn't won more than 3 games for the previous 5 years when Snisher were hired. The drafts were largely detrimental, limited free agency gains over those years, all while the rest of the division got stronger.