Should NBA eliminate max contracts?

[The Q]

Considering the league has gotten as healthy as it has, under the very rules some of you are claiming will destroy it, I don't foresee a drastic change anytime soon. Hell, people were making the same "this will destroy the league" assertions when LBJ and Bosh went to Miami, and just the opposite seems to have happened.

I think one thing the league should explore, and may come from OKC getting blown up, is providing teams a bit more advantage in trying keeping their own players.

The first part I agree with.

The second part I don't.

Teams should all be able to offer the same max dollars. The rest of this is silly.

And don't even get me started on a franchise tag. The most unamerican thing ever invented. The NFLPA should be ashamed for allowing that thing to exist.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

I don't think a max deal should be eliminated. I just think that a max contract should be raised WAY up. The max deal for someone with 10 years should be something like 50% of the cap. Then we'd still see the truly elite guys get max deals, but teams wouldn't be able to pay 2 or 3 of them like that and they certainly wouldn't be shelling them out to average players.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Just have a salary cap and have owners pay whatever they want for players. It is the only way to really stop super teams.

I'm against anything that would restrict player movement once they have earned FA rights. The teams have their opportunity to build around young stars such as GS did with Curry...some are lucky enough to win it all, and some (OKC) are not before the young stars reach FA status.

Once the CBA allows the player to choose...let them choose.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I don't think a max deal should be eliminated. I just think that a max contract should be raised WAY up. The max deal for someone with 10 years should be something like 50% of the cap. Then we'd still see the truly elite guys get max deals, but teams wouldn't be able to pay 2 or 3 of them like that and they certainly wouldn't be shelling them out to average players.

Interesting thought...The bottom line...at a certain point in a great player's career, it becomes more about having a legit chance to win a title. The money is so great now that guys can afford to take less to play with other players they think can help them get over the top.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I kind of agree with you. However - I am starting to wonder if the NBA (perhaps not all of the owners) prefer the current trend of only having 3-4 teams with a real shot of winning the title. A lot of fans (including some on this forum) appear to root for players and not teams. They probably love these super teams and the fact that the real stars are always in the Finals. Who knows?

imo...the NBA is set up much like the NFL in terms of the draft...the difference is the feeder system to the NBA has gotten weaker and weaker with all of the one and done players.

Take New Orleans for example...Unibrow (sorry forgot his name) is just now coming into his own in terms of being a dominant level player...but unless they're able to pool other players with him quickly, he will become a free agent, and a big market team like LAL, or CHI, etc. will look more enticing to him to win a title. Then he's gone, and NO starts over at the bottom.

When the NBA steps on the national stage in the playoffs, it's more about the star players than the teams unless you live in that city.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Interesting thought...The bottom line...at a certain point in a great player's career, it becomes more about having a legit chance to win a title. The money is so great now that guys can afford to take less to play with other players they think can help them get over the top.

Absolutely. Even if the max was raised way up, players could still get together and take less, but it would be less likely to happen until the players are nearing the end of their careers. I think we'll see some real changes in the next CBA...but hopefully no lockout.

 

[The Q]

Absolutely. Even if the max was raised way up, players could still get together and take less, but it would be less likely to happen until the players are nearing the end of their careers. I think we'll see some real changes in the next CBA...but hopefully no lockout.

We already saw real changes during the last lock out.

The only thing left is go so far backwards to a reserve system like baseball.

Or basically the burning of the American flag in every NBA arena.

All this stuff is just nonsense that rich billionaires are able to trick average fans into thinking it matters. Despite academic studies showing that a salary cap and draft are more about cutting team costs than "competitive balance."

You are way too smart to buy into said myths.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

We already saw real changes during the last lock out.

The only thing left is go so far backwards to a reserve system like baseball.

Or basically the burning of the American flag in every NBA arena.

All this stuff is just nonsense that rich billionaires are able to trick average fans into thinking it matters. Despite academic studies showing that a salary cap and draft are more about cutting team costs than "competitive balance."

You are way too smart to buy into said myths.

Not by design really, but it's evolved into that...particularly the draft.

The salary cap is merely a means to divide the revenue per the CBA. Theoretically, every team being able to spend the same amount of money on player salaries should disperse talent over time. But, caveats such as the Larry Bird rights shoot holes in that theory.

Draft...as I've said before...the NBA allowing one and done players has really weakened the league. Few players coming into the league are NBA ready or even close to impact players.

 

[The Q]

Not by design really, but it's evolved into that...particularly the draft.

The salary cap is merely a means to divide the revenue per the CBA. Theoretically, every team being able to spend the same amount of money on player salaries should disperse talent over time. But, caveats such as the Larry Bird rights shoot holes in that theory.

Draft...as I've said before...the NBA allowing one and done players has really weakened the league. Few players coming into the league are NBA ready or even close to impact players.

I disagree, but only because the league has always allowed college freshman to enter. One and done has only REQUIRED them to be at least freshmen (or a weird brandon jennings type pro, or a bizarre Thon Maker prep school situation...but I digress).

The difference is the CULTURE.

20-25 years ago the best players typically stayed 3-4 years, and usually at least 2 (Webber was 2, Shaq was 3, Grant Hill was 4, Glenn Robinson 2, Laetner 4 etc.).

Now the best players only stay one year. But all of those guys would've declared after their freshman years as well.

Part of it is because freshman are deemed to have more "upside" because they're further away from their peak. And statistically youth is a major factor in nba career success because now most guys who stay 3 or 4 years HAVE TO in order to make good money right out of the gate.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I disagree, but only because the league has always allowed college freshman to enter. One and done has only REQUIRED them to be at least freshmen (or a weird brandon jennings type pro, or a bizarre Thon Maker prep school situation...but I digress).

The difference is the CULTURE.

20-25 years ago the best players typically stayed 3-4 years, and usually at least 2 (Webber was 2, Shaq was 3, Grant Hill was 4, Glenn Robinson 2, Laetner 4 etc.).

Now the best players only stay one year. But all of those guys would've declared after their freshman years as well.

Part of it is because freshman are deemed to have more "upside" because they're further away from their peak. And statistically youth is a major factor in nba career success because now most guys who stay 3 or 4 years HAVE TO in order to make good money right out of the gate.

IMO, we're saying the same thing, but maybe the one and done term is not the right one.

Back in the day when high draft pick underclassmen came into the league, they were difference makers fairly early in their careers and as you said many were seniors coming in as impact players also. You could build a team around those players.

Now...these lottery picks (are 2 to 3 yrs away from being impact players, if ever)...I don't blame the kids from taking the money, but essentially the draft is a way to control cost now like you said.

 

[The Q]

IMO, we're saying the same thing, but maybe the one and done term is not the right one.

Back in the day when high draft pick underclassmen came into the league, they were difference makers fairly early in their careers and as you said many were seniors coming in as impact players also. You could build a team around those players.

Now...these lottery picks (are 2 to 3 yrs away from being impact players, if ever)...I don't blame the kids from taking the money, but essentially the draft is a way to control cost now like you said.

They made it about cost control LONG before the one and done rule.

They did it after Glenn Robinson wanted 100m for being the #1 pick. He settled for 10 years 68m. Which is nothing now. That would be a steal these days if you got to sign Brow for that much in 2012.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

imo...the NBA is set up much like the NFL in terms of the draft...the difference is the feeder system to the NBA has gotten weaker and weaker with all of the one and done players.

Take New Orleans for example...Unibrow (sorry forgot his name) is just now coming into his own in terms of being a dominant level player...but unless they're able to pool other players with him quickly, he will become a free agent, and a big market team like LAL, or CHI, etc. will look more enticing to him to win a title. Then he's gone, and NO starts over at the bottom.

When the NBA steps on the national stage in the playoffs, it's more about the star players than the teams unless you live in that city.

I think that there is a big difference in the draft for the NBA and NFL. The mid and latter rounds provide a lot of quality in the NFL. Rarely does an NBA star player get drafted even past the lottery picks (D. Green being one of the exceptions). With the new system it is hard to imagine an NBA team built entirely via the draft (Warriors last title team may be the last one for a while). In the NFL you almost need to develop your team from within w/ very few exceptions.

You make a good pt. regarding the NBA feeder system. It is becoming more and more of a crap shoot with one and down and foreign players - especially those past the first 4-5 picks. I wish that the NBA would raise the minimum age for players. IMO this would improve both the NBA and college game. Will probably never happen.

 

[shopson67]

Just have a salary cap and have owners pay whatever they want for players. It is the only way to really stop super teams.

Wouldn't have stopped the SuperFriends from teaming up.

 

[shopson67]

I think that there is a big difference in the draft for the NBA and NFL. The mid and latter rounds provide a lot of quality in the NFL. Rarely does an NBA star player get drafted even past the lottery picks (D. Green being one of the exceptions). With the new system it is hard to imagine an NBA team built entirely via the draft (Warriors last title team may be the last one for a while). In the NFL you almost need to develop your team from within w/ very few exceptions.

You make a good pt. regarding the NBA feeder system. It is becoming more and more of a crap shoot with one and down and foreign players - especially those past the first 4-5 picks. I wish that the NBA would raise the minimum age for players. IMO this would improve both the NBA and college game. Will probably never happen.

Of course the draft impacts differently; we're talking 15 man rosters vs 53.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I think that there is a big difference in the draft for the NBA and NFL. The mid and latter rounds provide a lot of quality in the NFL. Rarely does an NBA star player get drafted even past the lottery picks (D. Green being one of the exceptions). With the new system it is hard to imagine an NBA team built entirely via the draft (Warriors last title team may be the last one for a while). In the NFL you almost need to develop your team from within w/ very few exceptions.

You make a good pt. regarding the NBA feeder system. It is becoming more and more of a crap shoot with one and down and foreign players - especially those past the first 4-5 picks. I wish that the NBA would raise the minimum age for players. IMO this would improve both the NBA and college game. Will probably never happen.

Yeah...the games are so different in terms of longevity...also 53 man roster vs 15...in the NBA...most teams go 8 deep in terms of the players that really see mins...and the guys at the top are normally there for a lot longer. Granted I don't watch a ton of NBA outside of the playoffs, but it's getting more and more rare to draft a player develop him and he becomes a special player...the Leonard kid from San Antonio...Teague, I kinda saw him develop.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Of course the draft impacts differently; we're talking 15 man rosters vs 53.

In theory...the NBA draft should have more impact...right? But the players are not NBA ready...too young, too raw in most cases.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

We already saw real changes during the last lockout.

Eh, I expect we'll see even more this time.

Or basically the burning of the American flag in every NBA arena.

Sure, b/c that makes you sound intelligent and rational.

All this stuff is just nonsense that rich billionaires are able to trick average fans into thinking it matters.

It does matter. If it meant nothing, it wouldn't have taken a lockout to get the changes made in the first place. The problem isn't the max deal. It's that the max deal is WAY too affordable.

 

[The Q]

Eh, I expect we'll see even more this time.

Sure, b/c that makes you sound intelligent and rational.

It does matter. If it meant nothing, it wouldn't have taken a lockout to get the changes made in the first place. The problem isn't the max deal. It's that the max deal is WAY too affordable.

Let the players decide where they want to play. They're already getting their incomes deflated without any real reason.

We've already lost S&T which only hurts teams like OKC.

It's silly, short term thinking that doesn't look at the long term ramifications. Like MLB putting spending limits on the draft and international FA to "protect" small market teams, when it was smaller market teams benefitting the most from no caps.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Not by design really, but it's evolved into that...particularly the draft.
...
Draft...as I've said before...the NBA allowing one and done players has really weakened the league. Few players coming into the league are NBA ready or even close to impact players.

Couldn't agree more. With few exceptions, the college players entering the NBA are too raw and undeveloped to make the draft meaningful or worthwhile. 3 years (or even 2) playing in college or overseas could do a lot to make the draft more relevant again.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Let the players decide where they want to play.

The players in the league DO decide where they want to play. No franchise tag in the NBA. If you mean let HS and college players decide where they want to play, it sounds like you should be a soccer fan b/c the real American sports have drafts. It's the price of admission into a closed shop. Once that first contract expires, then you're free to play where you want to play.

They're already getting their incomes deflated without any real reason.

Irrelevant and incorrect.

It's silly, short term thinking that doesn't look at the long term ramifications. Like MLB putting spending limits on the draft and international FA to "protect" small market teams, when it was smaller market teams benefitting the most from no caps.

And it's a shocking ignorance of the subject matter that makes you think that.