Russell Wilson

[DirtDirtDirt]

LMAO!

 

[Cincyfan78]

Can you be an all-time great and not be in Canton?

To your point...yes, Brady and Montana are bolstered above the rest in the minds of many because they have the rings and the stats...but since we're talking about hierarchy within the all-time great family...P. Manning is widely considered to be above Terry Bradshaw.

Rings matter, but your play on the field has to warrant you being an all-time great.

Exactly.

If you want to talk about rings BETWEEN All-Time greats, then fine. But you certainly can't just use rings to DETERMINE an All-Time great.

Unless you are talking about an individual sport (like Tennis), championships are as much about the other X amount of players on the team as they are about the guys who get the most attention. For football, that will always be the QB. Too much blame when things go bad, and to much credit when things go well. That is a very commonly accepted thought.

 

[LambeauLegs]

I never said anything about playoffs. You started this thread by projecting RW's regular season stats for this year based on what he's done this year. So I showed you both QB's regular season numbers and how they compared.

Speaking of playoffs (since you brought up "rings") did you know that when you compare the two QB's playoff stats at the same point in their careers (three years of playoffs each) here are the numbers:

RW: 8 games played, 227 passing yards per game, 1.5 passing TD's/game
TB: 9 games played, 216 passing yards per game, 1.22 passing TD's/game

Again I didn't add rushing stats, but they obviously favor Wilson a lot.

So all I'm saying is be careful when you throw out that "Wilson = Dilfer" talk because Wilson's numbers are far closer to Tom Brady's than they are Dilfers.

Am I reading this right? Are you saying TB = Dilfer when compared to equal parts of their career since Wilson = Dilfer and Wilson is greater than Brady when comparing stats at the same point in their careers?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Exactly.

If you want to talk about rings BETWEEN All-Time greats, then fine. But you certainly can't just use rings to DETERMINE an All-Time great.

Unless you are talking about an individual sport (like Tennis), championships are as much about the other X amount of players on the team as they are about the guys who get the most attention. For football, that will always be the QB. Too much blame when things go bad, and to much credit when things go well. That is a very commonly accepted thought.

i never used rings as the sole dtermining factor. im saying someone like elway, who has 2, gets more love in canton than marino who has none.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Tel me, in you opinion, was the defense Brady played better, worse or the same as the defense Dalton, Stafford and Newton played?

BTW- when you answer "it was better", indulge me and explain why.

Wouldn't you say it was better?

They had their DC, which they lost this year, and the lost 2 pretty good role-DB's that helped that defense play their style of defense in coverage. This year, they lost those two guys and Carey-Williams has been dreadful when he's in man. It's forced a lot of changes in the secondary and how they cover other teams. If Sherman has to start moving around to shadow the best WR, then that changes how the defense attacks the offense. Something you never saw in the past.

So, you could very easily argue that the defense last year was better than this year. Though, this years' defense is still pretty good despite the 4th qtr miscues.

 

[Cincyfan78]

i never used rings as the sole dtermining factor. im saying someone like elway, who has 2, gets more love in canton than marino who has none.

That's a fair statement.

Whether or not you can agree/disagree with that is the other side of the argument which I alluded to.

 

[tducey]

Yeah, he's not a top 10 QB in the league but I still have him in the top 15.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Wouldn't you say it was better?

They had their DC, which they lost this year, and the lost 2 pretty good role-DB's that helped that defense play their style of defense in coverage. This year, they lost those two guys and Carey-Williams has been dreadful when he's in man. It's forced a lot of changes in the secondary and how they cover other teams. If Sherman has to start moving around to shadow the best WR, then that changes how the defense attacks the offense. Something you never saw in the past.

So, you could very easily argue that the defense last year was better than this year. Though, this years' defense is still pretty good despite the 4th qtr miscues.

i'll go with that

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Am I reading this right? Are you saying TB = Dilfer when compared to equal parts of their career since Wilson = Dilfer and Wilson is greater than Brady when comparing stats at the same point in their careers?

Rock was comparing Wilson to Dilfer. I merely pointed out that Wilson and Brady have pretty similar numbers at the same points in their careers. So if Rock is saying Wilson = Dilfer, then he must have thought the same thing about Brady back in 2004 right?

The truth is neither is true. Dilfer's best years never even made it to 2900 yds. Wilson and Brady's worst years were hundreds of yards better.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Rock was comparing Wilson to Dilfer. I merely pointed out that Wilson and Brady have pretty similar numbers at the same points in their careers. So if Rock is saying Wilson = Dilfer, then he must have thought the same thing about Brady back in 2004 right?

The truth is neither is true. Dilfer's best years never even made it to 2900 yds. Wilson and Brady's worst years were hundreds of yards better.

Exactly if Wilson = Dilfer and Wilsons stats are better than Brady in his early day then in todays new math we can easily determine that Brady = Dilfer

 

[Rock Strongo]

Rock was comparing Wilson to Dilfer. I merely pointed out that Wilson and Brady have pretty similar numbers at the same points in their careers. So if Rock is saying Wilson = Dilfer, then he must have thought the same thing about Brady back in 2004 right?

The truth is neither is true. Dilfer's best years never even made it to 2900 yds. Wilson and Brady's worst years were hundreds of yards better.

dilfer did win a title as a game managing QB...and yes, people forget....made a fucking probowl.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

dilfer did win a title as a game managing QB...and yes, people forget....made a fucking probowl.

That must have been one shitty year for QB's when Dilfer made the probowl. Have you looked at his stats?

 

[Rock Strongo]

That must have been one shitty year for QB's when Dilfer made the probowl. Have you looked at his stats?

yes, i did...and posted them here

21 TD's

11 picks

83ish rating

 

[LambeauLegs]

dilfer did win a title as a game managing QB...and yes, people forget....made a fucking probowl.

Ok so you mention that Wilson is a Dilfer with legs with this being a cut to Wilson. Then when comparable stats are show that Wilsons stats from when he started are better than Brady's stats for the same time frame making Brady and Wilson about equal we can then say that Brady is = to Dilfer.

So now that you see that Brady is = to Dilfer suddenly Dilfer is now a QB who is good because he is a game manager that won a title and even made a pro bowl giving compliments to make Brady look better

Rock just give it up

 

[LambeauLegs]

Is this all being calculated on stats through 5 or 6 games then?

 

[Rock Strongo]

Ok so you mention that Wilson is a Dilfer with legs with this being a cut to Wilson. Then when comparable stats are show that Wilsons stats from when he started are better than Brady's stats for the same time frame making Brady and Wilson about equal we can then say that Brady is = to Dilfer.

So now that you see that Brady is = to Dilfer suddenly Dilfer is now a QB who is good because he is a game manager that won a title and even made a pro bowl giving compliments to make Brady look better

Rock just give it up

brady led the league in TD passes in 2002. when did dilfer or wilson do that?

2nd time this has been glossed over today.

i will not give up!

 

[dkmightyhammer]

yes, i did...and posted them here

21 TD's

11 picks

83ish rating

So that was the 1998 probowl.

AFC QB's: Moon, Elway, Bledsoe, Brunell
NFC QB's: Young, Favre (injured didn't play), Chandler (injury replacement) and Dilfer?

That means Dilfer beat out Aikman and Jake the Snake Plummer for the Probowl that year? Wow. History is fun.

 

[Rock Strongo]

So that was the 1998 probowl.

AFC QB's: Moon, Elway, Bledsoe, Brunell
NFC QB's: Young, Favre (injured didn't play), Chandler (injury replacement) and Dilfer?

That means Dilfer beat out Aikman and Jake the Snake Plummer for the Probowl that year? Wow. History is fun.

yup

but it happened.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Is this all being calculated on stats through 5 or 6 games then?

Wilson has played 55 reg season games, so I just used Brady's first 55 reg season games (starting in 2001) to be equal.

 

[geezer]

Wilson may never be in the top of the league. But he wins without cheating and lying about it.

Now cue the brady* jock sniffers.