Rumors, Rumors, Rumors........

[Shoeshine Boy]

BK you need to stop listening to the Boston sports mediots when it comes to salary cap info. None of them understands how it works. The Pats would only gain about $3.5M in cap space trading Gilmore. Gilmore is the best CB in the league, they’re much better off re-working his deal than trading him, IMO.

Cannon would save about 4.5 (though it could be pushed nearer to 7 if they cut him with the June 1 designation and spread part of the dead money into next year...that extra money would not be available until that date, though).

 

[cdumler7]

CD, I appreciate your input. BUT...Big BUT.

We all know that you're a Bronco fan. We all know that the last thing that any Bronco fan wants to see, is a successful deal, draft or signing by the Patriots.

Please notice your response to a "RUMOR".......

"I would say"
"I would think"

They are your negative opinions to a rumor being discussed in Boston that you have no first hand knowledge. "I" think that you're expressing your "hopes" of what will happen and nothing more.

The Pats are going through a pretty rough stretch. We Pats fans know that other fans are ecstatic and we know you are hoping for the worst. Unless you have something to add from your insider knowledge, be like the rest of us and wait until something happens. OR express why you think this is a good trade or a bad trade.

Just sayin'. Bein' coop'd up is aggrvatin' me.

This isn't about me being a Bronco fan and wishing bad upon the Pats. We are talking about a CB that will be 30 at the start of the season. CB's maybe can still be peak up until about 31-32. So you are talking about 2 years tops of great production and you are talking of giving up 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks. On top of that you are talking about having to pay him decent money for the next two years.

So if any of us are expressing "hopes" here it is you not me. Please point to any other time a 30 year old player (not a QB) that got even close to that kind of draft compensation.

 

[nefansince75]

This isn't about me being a Bronco fan and wishing bad upon the Pats. We are talking about a CB that will be 30 at the start of the season. CB's maybe can still be peak up until about 31-32. So you are talking about 2 years tops of great production and you are talking of giving up 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks. On top of that you are talking about having to pay him decent money for the next two years.

So if any of us are expressing "hopes" here it is you not me. Please point to any other time a 30 year old player (not a QB) that got even close to that kind of draft compensation.

It's a wait and see situation. He's worth whatever someone is willing to pay and nobody knows that and nobody will find out unless that "willingness" is greater than the value BB places on him.

 

[cdumler7]

It's a wait and see situation. He's worth whatever someone is willing to pay and nobody knows that and nobody will find out unless that "willingness" is greater than the value BB places on him.

I don't disagree with that. Just usually history of the league can show this doesn't happen. So a team would have to set a new trend for this to be the case. Ramsey was an overpay but his makes more sense considering he is still on his rookie deal and obviously has quite a few years of prime ability left. Gilmore is a better player but with only a couple of years left of prime ability plus having to pay more contract wise I'm just having a hard time seeing how any team would make this deal.

I"m also leery about any Boston media person talking about something that would clearly end highly in the Pats favor as something that could be based in reality. If one of the national guys was talking about it I would perk up a bit more but local guys put out things like this all the time.

 

[nefansince75]

I don't disagree with that. Just usually history of the league can show this doesn't happen. So a team would have to set a new trend for this to be the case. Ramsey was an overpay but his makes more sense considering he is still on his rookie deal and obviously has quite a few years of prime ability left. Gilmore is a better player but with only a couple of years left of prime ability plus having to pay more contract wise I'm just having a hard time seeing how any team would make this deal.

I"m also leery about any Boston media person talking about something that would clearly end highly in the Pats favor as something that could be based in reality. If one of the national guys was talking about it I would perk up a bit more but local guys put out things like this all the time.

I guess you need to just look back and see Ken's advice about treating this as a rumor. The rumor was 2 firsts and two seconds and I interpreted most of the positive responses to mean the poster would make that trade in a heart beat, not that they thought that rumor would bear fruit.

 

[cdumler7]

I guess you need to just look back and see Ken's advice about treating this as a rumor. The rumor was 2 firsts and two seconds and I interpreted most of the positive responses to mean the poster would make that trade in a heart beat, not that they thought that rumor would bear fruit.

Fair enough. I guess I just like when trade talk has some controversy behind it of actual value for both sides and it being closer to a reality than just a pipe dream. So let's say some team offered a 1st round pick for Gilmore. Would that be enough for Pats fans to be ok with the trade? (To make this fair as obviously a top-5 pick is different than a 25-30 pick Let's say Atlanta came a knocking with their 16th overall pick)

 

[nefansince75]

It's a worthy discussion. I usually don't make "calls" since my opinion doesn't matter. I'll chime in and say the question of Gilmore's value really is different now. Will Gilmore take THIS team over the top? The answer is probably no. So it's really a question of how many more wins he can deliver and is it worth keeping him and the cap hit vs the pick and no cap hit. Four years from now they'll be better with the pick and the current cap relief if for no other reason than this: current room under the cap makes managing future years' caps easier.

Clearly there's more to add to this analysis.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It's a worthy discussion. I usually don't make "calls" since my opinion doesn't matter. I'll chime in and say the question of Gilmore's value really is different now. Will Gilmore take THIS team over the top? The answer is probably no. So it's really a question of how many more wins he can deliver and is it worth keeping him and the cap hit vs the pick and no cap hit. Four years from now they'll be better with the pick and the current cap relief if for no other reason than this: current room under the cap makes managing future years' caps easier.

Clearly there's more to add to this analysis.

Fair enough. I guess I just like when trade talk has some controversy behind it of actual value for both sides and it being closer to a reality than just a pipe dream. So let's say some team offered a 1st round pick for Gilmore. Would that be enough for Pats fans to be ok with the trade? (To make this fair as obviously a top-5 pick is different than a 25-30 pick Let's say Atlanta came a knocking with their 16th overall pick)

As people have mentioned too many variables for us armchair GMs.

But I'll add my worth. Gilmore is worth whatever a team will pay for him. I think the biggest factor is how close does that team feel they are to a possible SB title over the next two years. Assuming Gilmore's production will start to fall off around that time.

So a team who thinks they are very close and needs a lock down corner may give up an early first+?

A team who thinks maybe they have a shot gives up a mid to late first and maybe next years second?

Teams not in the running likely won't even call NE.

Having said that, I'm not taking anything less than a mid first this year+. I keep him and make other moves to find some cap relief. IMO he's worth at least that in this market. Maybe more but I don't want to go all homer.

With so many uncertainties like when/if we'll have a season, Gilmore's ability to shut down WRs and what I think will be BB really trying to strengthen the D in order to see if it can keep NE in most games while the Stidham evaluation goes on?

 

[YankeeRebel]

Wait I did not read entire thread is there talk of getting rid of Gilmore? So essentially we are talking about getting rid of our best offensive and defensive player in the same year? How the Holy Hell does that make sense to anyone?

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Fair enough. I guess I just like when trade talk has some controversy behind it of actual value for both sides and it being closer to a reality than just a pipe dream. So let's say some team offered a 1st round pick for Gilmore. Would that be enough for Pats fans to be ok with the trade? (To make this fair as obviously a top-5 pick is different than a 25-30 pick Let's say Atlanta came a knocking with their 16th overall pick)

For me? No.
Even a top 5 pick is no prediction on ability to reach DPOY status and regularly, consistently play at that elite level.
Sure, Gilmore has a high cap hit. Sure, Gilmore is getting a bit older. But he is a lock down corner like we have not had in a LONG time. He's worth it because he makes it easier for the rest of the defense.

 

[BigKen]

Wait I did not read entire thread is there talk of getting rid of Gilmore? So essentially we are talking about getting rid of our best offensive and defensive player in the same year? How the Holy Hell does that make sense to anyone?

It makes sense if you're Boll Belichick and you've reached a self conclusion that even with Gilmore, you will not win the Super Bowl. Once that decision has been made, trading him is much more palatable.

There have been rumors that the Dolphins are talking to the Bengals about moving up to #1 in the draft. Supposedly they want to take Burrow. To do that the Dolphins would have to give up #5, #18, #26 and $39 (second round) to match up numerically.

Knowing what Fores did with the Dolphins last year, he might decide to stay with Fitzpatrick and keep #5 and draft Love or Herbert. Trade #18 and #39 to the Patriots for Gilmore and add #141 in the bottom of the fourth round and get Marcus cannon who the Dolphins have reportedly inquired about. The patriots get draft picks and immediate cap space ($23M).

Now BB has #18 and #23 that he can deal and move up or Trade #16 to the Colts and get #34 and #44 in the second round. BB would still have #23 and like magic go from having no picks in the second round to having #34, #39 and #44. That would be three of the top 12 picks in Round two. Tell me that the Patriots couldn't rebuild pretty damn quick by trading Gilmore and quite possibly be right back into a heavy playoff contender.

Teams are not dealing well with COV-19 and are making deals either out of desperation or boredom.

Again, just my point of vie .

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

$8M, not $23M

 

[YankeeRebel]

It makes sense if you're Boll Belichick and you've reached a self conclusion that even with Gilmore, you will not win the Super Bowl. Once that decision has been made, trading him is much more palatable.

There have been rumors that the Dolphins are talking to the Bengals about moving up to #1 in the draft. Supposedly they want to take Burrow. To do that the Dolphins would have to give up #5, #18, #26 and $39 (second round) to match up numerically.

Knowing what Fores did with the Dolphins last year, he might decide to stay with Fitzpatrick and keep #5 and draft Love or Herbert. Trade #18 and #39 to the Patriots for Gilmore and add #141 in the bottom of the fourth round and get Marcus cannon who the Dolphins have reportedly inquired about. The patriots get draft picks and immediate cap space ($23M).

Now BB has #18 and #23 that he can deal and move up or Trade #16 to the Colts and get #34 and #44 in the second round. BB would still have #23 and like magic go from having no picks in the second round to having #34, #39 and #44. That would be three of the top 12 picks in Round two. Tell me that the Patriots couldn't rebuild pretty damn quick by trading Gilmore and quite possibly be right back into a heavy playoff contender.

Teams are not dealing well with COV-19 and are making deals either out of desperation or boredom.

Again, just my point of vie .

There is no way I see this happening. BB is not gonna trade the best CB in the league in the division for one. To me that makes zero sense.

 

[Southieinnc]

CD, I appreciate your input. BUT...Big BUT.

We all know that you're a Bronco fan. We all know that the last thing that any Bronco fan wants to see, is a successful deal, draft or signing by the Patriots.

Please notice your response to a "RUMOR".......

"I would say"
"I would think"

They are your negative opinions to a rumor being discussed in Boston that you have no first hand knowledge. "I" think that you're expressing your "hopes" of what will happen and nothing more.

The Pats are going through a pretty rough stretch. We Pats fans know that other fans are ecstatic and we know you are hoping for the worst. Unless you have something to add from your insider knowledge, be like the rest of us and wait until something happens. OR express why you think this is a good trade or a bad trade.

Just sayin'. Bein' coop'd up is aggrvatin' me.

Hey buddy, you have been cranky since I arrived on this board (and probably longer) Hang in there.

 

[Southieinnc]

Wait I did not read entire thread is there talk of getting rid of Gilmore? So essentially we are talking about getting rid of our best offensive and defensive player in the same year? How the Holy Hell does that make sense to anyone?

Since everybody else is weighing in, I'll throw my 2 bits in:

What if we don't play this year?

Brady would be $147 million and not playing and another year older
Gimore would be $_____million and not playing and turning 31 after a year off?

 

[BigKen]

NBCSports Boston is reporting that NFL teams are calling the Patriots trying to make deals for the following three players:

1. Julian Edelman (Lions, Bucs)
2. Stephon Gilmore (Dolphins, Saints, Cowboys)
3. Dantae Hightower (Dolphins, Lions, Cowboys, Cardinals)

They say that the above are the only ones that they've been able to speak with and none have confirmed or denied the rumors.

If Belichick decided to go into an all-out rebuild, these guys would open a ton of cap space and certainly add to the Patriots twelve 2020 draft picks. I don't think anything would be done before April 23. But I can see Gilmore going to the Dolphins for multiple draft picks. The Phins have three first-round picks and I think Flores would happily give the two later ones for Gilmore and I think Belichick would make that deal.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

KEN I AM BEGGING YOU TO PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION ABOUT THE CAP IMPLICATIONS OF TRADING THESE PLAYERS!

Trading Gilmore gives the Pats less than $3.5M in cap space. I have told you repeatedly that there is no great cap windfall to be had by moving Gilmore. The mediots are telling you they will get 16-18M dollars. They are WRONG!

Trading Edelman would cost them about $1M in space (i.e., it will be WORSE for the Patriots salary cap if JE is on another team in 2020).

Hightower would be the one significant savings because he is in the last year of his deal. Moving him would net just under $10M in space.

 

[BigKen]

KEN I AM BEGGING YOU TO PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION ABOUT THE CAP IMPLICATIONS OF TRADING THESE PLAYERS!

Call Tom Curran, NBCSPorts Boston and the Boston Herald.

I'm not a capologist and repeat what is said and by whom. I NEVER say I heard something without giving the source.

They could also be looking at the cap savings in 2021. I don't know exactly where or how they come up with this information, but they don't have one iota of a problem saying it to a public television audience.

Get yourself a Roku and Stream NBCSports Boston, then call them and tell them their wrong.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Nm. Not worth it.

 

[cdumler7]

Call Tom Curran, NBCSPorts Boston and the Boston Herald.

I'm not a capologist and repeat what is said and by whom. I NEVER say I heard something without giving the source.

They could also be looking at the cap savings in 2021. I don't know exactly where or how they come up with this information, but they don't have one iota of a problem saying it to a public television audience.

Get yourself a Roku and Stream NBCSports Boston, then call them and tell them their wrong.

I would recommend bookmarking Overthecap.com. They do a great job of breaking down contracts and showing the dead money/savings.