Rangers vs O's

[romeo212000]

That is exactly what I thought, think the FO has it all figured out. Now we just add a bat and a pitcher and get some guys back and win the division

You'd surely think that if we ever got healthy we'd run away with this damn thing. We officially have 1 pitcher from our opening day rotation not on the DL and were still 15 games over .500 and nearly at the break. Lets get healthy and win this damn thing.

 

[Bmurph]

You'd surely think that if we ever got healthy we'd run away with this damn thing. We officially have 1 pitcher from our opening day rotation not on the DL and were still 15 games over .500 and nearly at the break. Lets get healthy and win this damn thing.

With our second half schedule and adding arms in the second half and possibly a bat we stand a good chance of putting a little distance between us and the A's. I believe we still see them 9 times and truly believe we are the better team. Win the division by 3

 

[Al Falfa]

To me the most telling stat that shows how Darvish was affected by the 130 pitch outing is to look at the WHIP in the 8 games prior to the infamous decision to let him throw 130 pitches and in the 9 games after that game. The WHIP prior to that game was 0.91 and the WHIP in the 9 games since is 1.18. Yu has had enough talent to overcome the extra baserunners in those 9 games in that he didn't let it affect his ERA very much, but I don't know that he can keep that up. Either way the increase in baserunners proves to me that he is not the same pitcher he was in the first 8 games this year. The 1.18 ERA is still very good, but compared to the 0.91 WHIP I think it is evident that something changed.

One thing is for certain and that is none of us can be certain about if it affected him or not. The ones of us who were concerned when Wash took the chance and let him throw 130 pitches when it wasn't needed are naturally going to be suspicious that it did have an effect now that he is injured. Those who thought nothing of it then will probably not change their mind now. If his arm fell off two weeks later they wouldn't think it had been affected by Wash's decision.

Either way though the fact remains that Wash took a huge gamble on the arm of our ace that night against Detroit. It was an unnecessary gamble and therefore a very dumb decision.

in 1963 Juan Marichal and Warren Spann both pitched all of a 16 inning game. Marichal threw 227 pitches, Spann 201. Juan went on to win 20 games 5 times, Spann was 42 and at the end of his career. This was in the day of 4 man rotations and conditioning not near what it is today. It's laughable to think that Wash was taking a huge gamble by letting Yu throw 130 pitches especially when everybody is bitching about him not throwing enough fastballs. It would probably help if he threw more strikes and had less 3-2 counts.

 

[lainey12]

Okay, well this completely sucks, we lose and I'm finding out Yu is hurt.
I know, supposedly only a game or two...it's just hard to believe anything will go our way when it comes to pitching injuries.
F!

 

[Al Falfa]

Seems like every year, you have that one player that declines and people go ape shit, and the player is basically like "Bitch, I'm tired/worn out!"

Count me and probably thousands of other Rangers fans who will or have gone ape shit when the best players aren't put on the field. It cost the Rangers HFA in both World Series trips. It's a stupid way to determine HFA, but unless they are in a hospital bed I want the best players on the field. JMO

 

[romeo212000]

Count me and probably thousands of other Rangers fans who will or have gone ape shit when the best players aren't put on the field. It cost the Rangers HFA in both World Series trips. It's a stupid way to determine HFA, but unless they are in a hospital bed I want the best players on the field. JMO

Of course the real solution is don't make a stupid exhibition game decide hfa in the fucking WS.

 

[whittler]

ASG is purely about Money. Host city gets a Mini Superbowl, For 1 night Baseball gets the attention of the whole country, no NBA, no NHL, no NFL playing. Every Market gets A player. Ratings=$$$

Blame all this HFA crap on Selig and calling the Tied ASG fiasco. Fox said " never Agian. " Fox wanted more Eyeballs, thus the HFA

Fox gets to play up the "It Means Something, HFA." Ratings =$$$

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Talking about pitch count it amazes me that Nolan Ryan could throw as hard as he did for as long as he did. Even pitchers back in his day who could throw hard eventually burned out.

 

[bennie]

Sorry Bennie. I'm not buying it. There's no evidence to support your theory. If it were true I'd think his 120+ pitch first outing of the season would've affected him more because he wasn't in mid season form, but its just not true. Sell it somewhere else cause we're not buying.

That's okay Romeo. I wasn't trying to sell anything anyway. I was just stating my opinion.

 

[bennie]

in 1963 Juan Marichal and Warren Spann both pitched all of a 16 inning game. Marichal threw 227 pitches, Spann 201. Juan went on to win 20 games 5 times, Spann was 42 and at the end of his career. This was in the day of 4 man rotations and conditioning not near what it is today. It's laughable to think that Wash was taking a huge gamble by letting Yu throw 130 pitches especially when everybody is bitching about him not throwing enough fastballs. It would probably help if he threw more strikes and had less 3-2 counts.

This isn't 1963.

I guess using that logic we should go to a 4 man rotation and let all 4 of them throw 150 pitches in every game.

 

[romeo212000]

That's okay Romeo. I wasn't trying to sell anything anyway. I was just stating my opinion.

And I'm just stating that the numbers don't back up your statement and myself and others aren't buying it. Have a nice day.

 

[jta4437]

Count me and probably thousands of other Rangers fans who will or have gone ape shit when the best players aren't put on the field. It cost the Rangers HFA in both World Series trips. It's a stupid way to determine HFA, but unless they are in a hospital bed I want the best players on the field. JMO

Well thats a whole other aspect that's ridiculous

I for one would find the All-Star Game far more interesting if guys that were tired took off and they had some new faces in there

And it would certainly help if the fans actually voted the best players in, but they regularly don't

 

[bennie]

And I'm just stating that the numbers don't back up your statement and myself and others aren't buying it. Have a nice day.

The numbers may not necessarily be proof either way though. All injuries don't necessarily manifest. Themselves in worse numbers in a short period of time. Every injured player doesn't always have a nosedive in performance right away.. my assertion that the 130 pitch outing was damaging to Yu isn't necessarily verifiable by numbers at this point. I did point out one set of numbers for those who have to have them and it was explained away as simply being a natural decrease. That can be used to explain away anything when the mind is already made up. Like I said to begin with, no ome is going to change their mind about this one way or another like pretty much any other subject that is brought up on here.

 

[romeo212000]

The numbers may not necessarily be proof either way though. All injuries don't necessarily manifest. Themselves in worse numbers in a short period of time. Every injured player doesn't always have a nosedive in performance right away.. my assertion that the 130 pitch outing was damaging to Yu isn't necessarily verifiable by numbers at this point. I did point out one set of numbers for those who have to have them and it was explained away as simply being a natural decrease. That can be used to explain away anything when the mind is already made up. Like I said to begin with, no ome is going to change their mind about this one way or another like pretty much any other subject that is brought up on here.

Ill trust the numbers jta posted over your gut and eye test.

 

[Al Falfa]

This isn't 1963.

I guess using that logic we should go to a 4 man rotation and let all 4 of them throw 150 pitches in every game.

It's obviously not 1963, but it's still a round ball, a round bat and 60' 6". And it's a hell of a lot easier to throw 130 pitches today than it was back then.

 

[bennie]

Ill trust the numbers jta posted over your gut and eye test.

Whatever makes you happy Romeo.

 

[bennie]

It's obviously not 1963, but it's still a round ball, a round bat and 60' 6". And it's a hell of a lot easier to throw 130 pitches today than it was back then.

It was much easier to do so back then because no one knew the risks involved. Kind of like how it was easier for folks to smoke back then because they were ignorant about the risks involved with tobacco use.

 

[Al Falfa]

ASG is purely about Money. Host city gets a Mini Superbowl, For 1 night Baseball gets the attention of the whole country, no NBA, no NHL, no NFL playing. Every Market gets A player. Ratings=$$$

Blame all this HFA crap on Selig and calling the Tied ASG fiasco. Fox said " never Agian. " Fox wanted more Eyeballs, thus the HFA

Fox gets to play up the "It Means Something, HFA." Ratings =$$$

I think that sometimes the money thing works both ways. You have to figure that some players making millions a year don't really have much incentive to play in All Star games. I know that a lot more in todays game beg off from the All Star game than they did prior to the million dollar pay days.

 

[Al Falfa]

It was much easier to do so back then because no one knew the risks involved. Kind of like how it was easier for folks to smoke back then because they were ignorant about the risks involved with tobacco use.

The point I was trying to make that obviously escaped you was that a guy pitched 15+ innings then went on to win 20 games in 4 or 5 different seasons pitching in a four man rotation. Three years after the 16 inning affair he won 26 games. I'm not suggesting that they throw 150 games or go back to 4 man rotations, but I am saying it's been done before and throwing 130 pitches is not unchartered waters.
Hell, Nolan Ryan had probably already thrown 4 no hitters before somebody ever mentioned pitch counts and 5 man rotations.

 

[bennie]

The point I was trying to make that obviously escaped you was that a guy pitched 15+ innings then went on to win 20 games in 4 or 5 different seasons pitching in a four man rotation. Three years after the 16 inning affair he won 26 games. I'm not suggesting that they throw 150 games or go back to 4 man rotations, but I am saying it's been done before and throwing 130 pitches is not unchartered waters.
Hell, Nolan Ryan had probably already thrown 4 no hitters before somebody ever mentioned pitch counts and 5 man rotations.

Thanks for pointing out the same argument that has been made for years That is hard to escape from anyone. I am saying that there are risks involved that were not understood back then. Just as you hear about some folks who smoke cigaretts all their life and never get cancer you can also find pitchers who "abused" their arms and yet showed no ill effects from it ever. It is still a big risk though and one that should not have been taken by Wash.