politics thread

[ehb5]

I'll give trump this. He's one hell of a marketer with all his make America great again and america first BS.

He throws out his neat little slogans, then turns around pushes for policies that are harmful to americans and this country and his supporters just gobble it all up without a thought because hey! - he said america first!

 

[gkekoa]

New Report Assesses the Economic and Fiscal Consequences of Immigration

Immigrants Haven't Hurt Pay for Americans

The first thing I would point out is the source of your first article. Where is the study from business and finance?
Then I would point out it says there is a small impact on wages and that it does affect lower skilled laborers, which I said. So it doesn’t benefit all Americans.
Then it says, immigration does hurt prior immigrants both in employment and in hours worked.
It states that immigration does help economic growth but do you understand how? It doesn’t explain it at all but I will...more people equals more money.
Then it states that immigrants are more costly...which means citizens are paying more for immigrants.
So the federal government refuses to enforce its own laws because it takes money away from the federal government but costs the local governments.

Now, I could keep going on for the first article, but instead I will just ask one question. How do you compare these so-called positive aspects with a theoretical what-if that goes in direct opposition to a law such as supply and demand?


Now for the Bloomberg article, which is a source with guaranteed bias. It shows a common democratic talking point of lower illegal immigration rates which does make sense during a time of weak economic growth. 5hat being said, how can you account for people in the country illegally? The common number thrown around is about 13 million but there are stimates over 30 million. It just depends on who you believe. From there, you have to extrapolate births to illegals and those children are not illegal, they are citizens, but how does that impact the economy? Those children will likely be less educated because their parents are in hiding and those children never should have been here.

 

[gkekoa]

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"

- Donald Trump.

Until our representatives can figure out what the hell is going on...also, this lacks specifics.

Now show me the legislation he pushed calling for a complete ban.

 

[Rowdy]

I'll give trump this. He's one hell of a marketer with all his make America great again and america first BS.

He throws out his neat little slogans, then turns around pushes for policies that are harmful to americans and this country and his supporters just gobble it all up without a thought because hey! - he said america first!

America first is a whole lot better than Obumer's world apology tour

 

[skinsdad62]

"Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States"

- Donald Trump.

and the list he submitted was the same ones obama had

 

[skinsdad62]

It's measuring both. The effects of immigration are positive. Immigrants make our country and economy stronger.

And again. Illegal immigration has been a net negative over the past 12 years. It is not the issue you think it is.

i think i just showed you that wasnt the case above , it cost us over 116 billion to take care of these illegals

 

[Sharkinva]

i think i just showed you that wasnt the case above , it cost us over 116 billion to take care of these illegals

The problem with most of the studies you are posting is that they were written from a biased point of view in order to further an agenda.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants - FactCheck.org

A prime example is associating the cost of schooling for the child of an illegal Immigrant who was born here as money spent on illegal immigrants.

But the real issue is when people make statements like Illegal immigrants are drug dealers, rapists and such. Because the agenda being pushed is that ALL illegal immigrants are drug dealers and members of MS-13, and the wing nuts eat that shit up because it does fit into their agenda any way.

 

[skinsdad62]

my deal with illegals are this , it cost 116 billion dollars to pay for food , housing and health care . this is after the 45 billion the contribute

if i were to break ANY foreign countries immigation laws i would be put in jail . every country in the world regulates their own borders . for christ 's sake mexico has a border wall on their own southern border . why cant we ?

i am all for legal immigration , guest workers programs e verify but we have the right to put limits on it and we have the right to say who and how many . every damn country in the world has that right but somehow we are assholes because we want the same ?

the US pays anywhere from 25 billion to 50 billion in humanitarian aid to every country in central and south america and yet somehow it doesnt get through do to corruption and lack of accountability by their own govts ? but that is our fault ? no it is not

so we have to take this massive flow of illegals and pay even more money to help them ? over american citizens ? sorry but that dog doesnt hunt for me

american tax payer money should go to help americans in need first . our homeless, our disabled , our mentally ill BEFORE we take on anyone else

i am all for changing our laws to make it easier for people to come in legally i have no issue with that at all . but when does our obligation end ? when does the EU , and Canada step up and help ? how about Russia? how about chine and india with their booming economies ? brazil or argentina ? chile ?

these countries are supposedly more fair and just then our country is but some of you dont even require them to step up and pitch in . our country has to bare the brunt of this . we have huge debt when does that come back to bite us and who will help us ? answer no one

i dont see canada busting down our doors to help with these so called asylum seekers . in fact their PM was just busting our country out for having illegals entering THEIR country . Nothing from the left on that at all

where is the freaking UN in all of this ? doing nothing as usual yet you keep advocating for the UN while they sit and do little

and what about american citizens who are victims of violence , drunk driving , and ID theft committed by illegals ? every one should be preventable because illegals shouldnt be in our country to begin with yet americans suffer

and lets be real , this is all about votes and power . if ideas of one party cant win at the ballot box then we import people to change the outcomes .

yeah Trump is a dick as a person . no debate with me there but there are plenty of dicks in our congress who block everything because of politics of both sides

and we keep supporting establishment candidates who do nothing . who has been in charge for the past 50 year in major cities ? and why do you keep voting them in ?

sorry but i will never support open borders or illegal immigration period , doesnt make me a xenophobe , a white supremacist or any other vile name . hell my wife is mexican and she is legal

and do any of you think that a communist govt or socialist govt here will change racism ? will change what is happening in central and south america ? . hell why dont we just conquer the whole continent and take care of them ourselves ? anyone want that ?

end of my take

 

[ehb5]

The first thing I would point out is the source of your first article. Where is the study from business and finance?
Then I would point out it says there is a small impact on wages and that it does affect lower skilled laborers, which I said. So it doesn’t benefit all Americans.
Then it says, immigration does hurt prior immigrants both in employment and in hours worked.
It states that immigration does help economic growth but do you understand how? It doesn’t explain it at all but I will...more people equals more money.
Then it states that immigrants are more costly...which means citizens are paying more for immigrants.
So the federal government refuses to enforce its own laws because it takes money away from the federal government but costs the local governments.

Now, I could keep going on for the first article, but instead I will just ask one question. How do you compare these so-called positive aspects with a theoretical what-if that goes in direct opposition to a law such as supply and demand?


Now for the Bloomberg article, which is a source with guaranteed bias. It shows a common democratic talking point of lower illegal immigration rates which does make sense during a time of weak economic growth. 5hat being said, how can you account for people in the country illegally? The common number thrown around is about 13 million but there are stimates over 30 million. It just depends on who you believe. From there, you have to extrapolate births to illegals and those children are not illegal, they are citizens, but how does that impact the economy? Those children will likely be less educated because their parents are in hiding and those children never should have been here.

Whats wrong with the source of the first article?

“The panel's comprehensive examination revealed many important benefits of immigration — including on economic growth, innovation, and entrepreneurship — with little to no negative effects on the overall wages or employment of native-born workers in the long term,”

So yes as it mentions immigrants can have either no impact or a small impact on unskilled native workers such as people who did not complete high school, but the impacts overall are positive in the long run. And if we are lifting up this country as a whole that helps everybody including the unskilled native workers.

As for more people equally more money.... yea. That's a good thing.

As for supply demand Im not sure why you're keying on that. You really cant shift one of those curves without shifting the other in the labor market. Claiming supply and demand so immigration is bad doesn't make any sense.

The second article. Bloomberg isn't a trusted source to you? The fact that you think it's guaranteed bias is a bit worrisome.

I dont think you can find me a credible source that says 30 million. The number seems to be around 11 million.

As for their children no you dont extrapolate to them. For one they are not illegal immigrants and secondly they have a more positve fiscal impact than the native born population.

 

[ehb5]

Until our representatives can figure out what the hell is going on...also, this lacks specifics.

Now show me the legislation he pushed calling for a complete ban.

Yea we'll just completely target an entire religious group for a little while no biggie. You'd have lost your mind if obama said that about Christians.

He didn't push for the legislation because thankfully we live in a country that would never have allowed that. But you heard him. He was quite clear. Donald trump does not believe muslims should be welcome in this country. You keep defending that though.

 

[ehb5]

America first is a whole lot better than Obumer's world apology tour

Regardless of how you feel about obama trump's policies are harmful to the US all while being paraded around as being america first. Don't fall for that.

 

[ehb5]

and the list he submitted was the same ones obama had

And he wanted to ban all muslims. That is a fact. It is a clear direct quote from the man himself. Its vile and embarrassing for our country. But yea feel free to defend that.

 

[ehb5]

i think i just showed you that wasnt the case above , it cost us over 116 billion to take care of these illegals

No you didn't at all. Im not sure where you're getting that idea.

 

[skinsdad62]

The problem with most of the studies you are posting is that they were written from a biased point of view in order to further an agenda.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants - FactCheck.org

A prime example is associating the cost of schooling for the child of an illegal Immigrant who was born here as money spent on illegal immigrants.

But the real issue is when people make statements like Illegal immigrants are drug dealers, rapists and such. Because the agenda being pushed is that ALL illegal immigrants are drug dealers and members of MS-13, and the wing nuts eat that shit up because it does fit into their agenda any way.

shark i didnt go to the site issue but ebb's sites have a liberal agenda as does factcheck.org financed by george soros

ms-13 are illegals , there are numerous cases of illegals committing violent crimes such as the ones listed above . now are all illegals like that ? no , but any crime committed by an illegal such as ID theft . r*pe murder underage sex , sex trafficking , accidental death , manslaughter etc is preventable because they should not be here

and how many times do i have to hear about this vast majority of people who support conservative thought are some how wing nuts ? how many times do i have to hear about all conservatives are white supremacist ?

and please explain to me why providing education, health care , housing etc shouldnt apply to daca people ? by all rights they shouldnt be here either . that doesnt mean i hold them responsible for their plight but to say they shouldnt count is foolish in my eyes

 

[skinsdad62]

No you didn't at all. Im not sure where you're getting that idea.

i put the link up

 

[skinsdad62]

And he wanted to ban all muslims. That is a fact. It is a clear direct quote from the man himself. Its vile and embarrassing for our country. But yea feel free to defend that.

again its the same list as obama had

 

[Sharkinva]

and please explain to me why providing education, health care , housing etc shouldnt apply to daca people ? by all rights they shouldnt be here either . that doesnt mean i hold them responsible for their plight but to say they shouldnt count is foolish in my eyes

I will touch on this one first. Its that old sins of the father thing. So basically we want to punish these American citizens because their parents broke the law. On the flip side I have been admonished many times as to how a white person today should not feel any guilt over slavery because they did not own any slaves. Its the old double standard thing in effect.

 

[Sharkinva]

and how many times do i have to hear about this vast majority of people who support conservative thought are some how wing nuts ? how many times do i have to hear about all conservatives are white supremacist ?

Simply put, most of your white supremacists tend to be right wing conservatives. But just because you are a conservative does not automatically make you a white supremacist, any more than being born black makes one a violent criminal or being Latino with a parent who happens to be illegal automatically makes you illegal because you shouldnt have been born here in the first place.

 

[Sharkinva]

ms-13 are illegals , there are numerous cases of illegals committing violent crimes such as the ones listed above . now are all illegals like that ? no , but any crime committed by an illegal such as ID theft . r*pe murder underage sex , sex trafficking , accidental death , manslaughter etc is preventable because they should not be here

While no one would actually do a study, I would wager the majority of MS-13 in this country now are not illegals, but in fact Latinos born here and legal citizens. Much as many of the Muslims in the US were born and raised here or came here through legal means.

But saying MS-13's 10K members might actually be mostly Latinos who were born here wouldnt quite fit into the anti immigrants rant of El Presidente'

 

[gkekoa]

The problem with most of the studies you are posting is that they were written from a biased point of view in order to further an agenda.

Cost of Illegal Immigrants - FactCheck.org

A prime example is associating the cost of schooling for the child of an illegal Immigrant who was born here as money spent on illegal immigrants.

But the real issue is when people make statements like Illegal immigrants are drug dealers, rapists and such. Because the agenda being pushed is that ALL illegal immigrants are drug dealers and members of MS-13, and the wing nuts eat that shit up because it does fit into their agenda any way.

All these sources will have bias.