politics thread

[gkekoa]

And he wanted to ban all muslims. That is a fact. It is a clear direct quote from the man himself. Its vile and embarrassing for our country. But yea feel free to defend that.

It is a partial quote without context.

The quote was made after the San Bernardino incident and to complete the quote...until our representatives figure out what is going on. It would have been temporary. When the actual information came out, it was limited to seven countries. These were the same countries put forth by the Obama administration.

 

[gkekoa]

Yea we'll just completely target an entire religious group for a little while no biggie. You'd have lost your mind if obama said that about Christians.

He didn't push for the legislation because thankfully we live in a country that would never have allowed that. But you heard him. He was quite clear. Donald trump does not believe muslims should be welcome in this country. You keep defending that though.

I would have because there would be no basis for banning Christians. Terrorism isn’t coming from Christian nations.

Should we welcome Satanists and demon worshippers into this country? How about those who believe in cannabilism and head shrinking? Now, I am not trying to equate Islam to Satanists, but where do we draw the line and why is the line drawn there? Have you actually investigated Islam?

I will defend a person’s right to make statements and then explain them...which he did when he limited the legislation to seven countries. Context matters.

 

[Sharkinva]

It is a partial quote without context.

The quote was made after the San Bernardino incident and to complete the quote...until our representatives figure out what is going on. It would have been temporary. When the actual information came out, it was limited to seven countries. These were the same countries put forth by the Obama administration.

Put it into context is usually the first thing said when some one makes a comment that is openly wrong. I tend to ride with gut reaction tends to show ones true self. If some one tosses the N word, and then backs off and says well I was upset and I was only talking about the black person who upset me in that situation... I tend to think we just got a glimpse into how that person really thinks.

 

[skinsdad62]

Simply put, most of your white supremacists tend to be right wing conservatives. But just because you are a conservative does not automatically make you a white supremacist, any more than being born black makes one a violent criminal or being Latino with a parent who happens to be illegal automatically makes you illegal because you shouldnt have been born here in the first place.

wrong history has shown most are leftist , progressives who have done this . the KKK was the terrorist arm of the democratic party , andrew jackson was a progressive democrat who forcibly moved the indians to oaklahoma. woodrow wilson a progressive jailed italians and germans and was racist towards blacks

nazis were socialists a left wing ideology in fact hitler got most of his ideology from what american progressives did FDR admired mussolini , a socialist and facist

FDR jailed Japanese american citizens , appointed an ex KKK member to the supreme court , continued seperate but equal

communist are leftist and have killed minorities throughout their reign especially jews

Margaret Sanger , a leftist , and founder of planned parenthood , was admired by HRC (a progressive by her own words ) , with the expressed purpose of eliminating blacks and keeping them from reproducing

hitler took this idea and used it to exterminate , jews gypsies, homosexuals and disabled people .

no real conservative would ever support socialism and the left has told this big lie for decades .

i could go on but i will leave you with that

 

[Sharkinva]

wrong history has shown most are leftist , progressives who have done this . the KKK was the terrorist arm of the democratic party , andrew jackson was a progressive democrat who forcibly moved the indians to oaklahoma. woodrow wilson a progressive jailed italians and germans and was racist towards blacks

nazis were socialists a left wing ideology in fact hitler got most of his ideology from what american progressives did FDR admired mussolini , a socialist and facist

FDR jailed Japanese american citizens , appointed an ex KKK member to the supreme court , continued seperate but equal

communist are leftist and have killed minorities throughout their reign especially jews

Margaret Sanger , a leftist , and founder of planned parenthood , was admired by HRC (a progressive by her own words ) , with the expressed purpose of eliminating blacks and keeping them from reproducing

hitler took this idea and used it to exterminate , jews gypsies, homosexuals and disabled people .

no real conservative would ever support socialism and the left has told this big lie for decades .

i could go on but i will leave you with that

And I will say this.. I get what History shows from 100 years ago. Hell I will even give you 50-60 years ago.

Find me a KKK member today that is a democrat. Most of your white supremacists today identify with the conservative republican party.

 

[gkekoa]

Whats wrong with the source of the first article?

“The panel's comprehensive examination revealed many important benefits of immigration — including on economic growth, innovation, and entrepreneurship — with little to no negative effects on the overall wages or employment of native-born workers in the long term,”

So yes as it mentions immigrants can have either no impact or a small impact on unskilled native workers such as people who did not complete high school, but the impacts overall are positive in the long run. And if we are lifting up this country as a whole that helps everybody including the unskilled native workers.

As for more people equally more money.... yea. That's a good thing.

As for supply demand Im not sure why you're keying on that. You really cant shift one of those curves without shifting the other in the labor market. Claiming supply and demand so immigration is bad doesn't make any sense.

The second article. Bloomberg isn't a trusted source to you? The fact that you think it's guaranteed bias is a bit worrisome.

I dont think you can find me a credible source that says 30 million. The number seems to be around 11 million.

As for their children no you dont extrapolate to them. For one they are not illegal immigrants and secondly they have a more positve fiscal impact than the native born population.

The source of the first article was not businessmen and financial experts. It was put forth by a liberal think tank.

Little or no...there was an effect. It also says long term but what of the short term?

In what way is it benefitting the low skilled workers and at the same time we complain about a wealth gap?

More people is more spending. It doesn’t mean more money in individual pockets. It does mean more money going to businessmen that are being painted as villains.

It makes perfect sense. If you have a higher supply of people vying for a job, that’s job will pay less because the supply will be high.

Bloomberg is one of the most biased sources of information out there.

How Many Illegal Immigrants Are in the US? | FAIRus.org
Most estimates are based off self reporting. Tell me something...would you admit to anybody you are breaking the law?

Of course you extrapolate for them because if it wasn’t for their parents breaking the law, then they wouldn’t be citizens. I am not saying you don’t count them as non-citizens now but I do believe we should change the law to stop future illegal immigration. As for them being more positive than natural citizens, I would say those numbers do not include children of illegals because they are less likely to be educated out of fear of parental immigration status.

 

[gkekoa]

And I will say this.. I get what History shows from 100 years ago. Hell I will even give you 50-60 years ago.

Find me a KKK member today that is a democrat. Most of your white supremacists today identify with the conservative republican party.

Find me a member of the KKK today so I can ask them.

I can verify ANTIFA and the Black Panthers are extensions of the Democratic Party and they far outnumber the modern KKK.

 

[gkekoa]

Put it into context is usually the first thing said when some one makes a comment that is openly wrong. I tend to ride with gut reaction tends to show ones true self. If some one tosses the N word, and then backs off and says well I was upset and I was only talking about the black person who upset me in that situation... I tend to think we just got a glimpse into how that person really thinks.

Put it into context means find out the real meaning of what was said because usually there is more to a comment...which there was.

After 911, the reaction of all America was kill all those bastards.

Is that what black people say when they use the N word because they are the ones mostly saying it?

 

[ehb5]

my deal with illegals are this , it cost 116 billion dollars to pay for food , housing and health care . this is after the 45 billion the contribute

if i were to break ANY foreign countries immigation laws i would be put in jail . every country in the world regulates their own borders . for christ 's sake mexico has a border wall on their own southern border . why cant we ?

i am all for legal immigration , guest workers programs e verify but we have the right to put limits on it and we have the right to say who and how many . every damn country in the world has that right but somehow we are assholes because we want the same ?

the US pays anywhere from 25 billion to 50 billion in humanitarian aid to every country in central and south america and yet somehow it doesnt get through do to corruption and lack of accountability by their own govts ? but that is our fault ? no it is not

so we have to take this massive flow of illegals and pay even more money to help them ? over american citizens ? sorry but that dog doesnt hunt for me

american tax payer money should go to help americans in need first . our homeless, our disabled , our mentally ill BEFORE we take on anyone else

i am all for changing our laws to make it easier for people to come in legally i have no issue with that at all . but when does our obligation end ? when does the EU , and Canada step up and help ? how about Russia? how about chine and india with their booming economies ? brazil or argentina ? chile ?

these countries are supposedly more fair and just then our country is but some of you dont even require them to step up and pitch in . our country has to bare the brunt of this . we have huge debt when does that come back to bite us and who will help us ? answer no one

i dont see canada busting down our doors to help with these so called asylum seekers . in fact their PM was just busting our country out for having illegals entering THEIR country . Nothing from the left on that at all

where is the freaking UN in all of this ? doing nothing as usual yet you keep advocating for the UN while they sit and do little

and what about american citizens who are victims of violence , drunk driving , and ID theft committed by illegals ? every one should be preventable because illegals shouldnt be in our country to begin with yet americans suffer

and lets be real , this is all about votes and power . if ideas of one party cant win at the ballot box then we import people to change the outcomes .

yeah Trump is a dick as a person . no debate with me there but there are plenty of dicks in our congress who block everything because of politics of both sides

and we keep supporting establishment candidates who do nothing . who has been in charge for the past 50 year in major cities ? and why do you keep voting them in ?

sorry but i will never support open borders or illegal immigration period , doesnt make me a xenophobe , a white supremacist or any other vile name . hell my wife is mexican and she is legal

and do any of you think that a communist govt or socialist govt here will change racism ? will change what is happening in central and south america ? . hell why dont we just conquer the whole continent and take care of them ourselves ? anyone want that ?

end of my take

Going point by point of your post...

1. That is not accurate. The source you posted is incredibly questionable. See my immediate response to you posting it for the details.

2. We deport a lot of people. It's not some happy go lucky everybody stroll on through sort of thing. Net illegal immigration has been a net negative over the past 12 years so the wall is a bad idea because it may not work, even if it does work it may not help or be necessary, and its a large expense that we do not need to be paying for.

3. The problem with limits is that they end up limiting skilled immigration usually. And skilled immigration is awesome. Also immigrants are much more educated than you seem to think.

4. Thats pretty off topic and has nothing to do with immigration. Im fine with cutting aid to countries but again...not the issue we're discussing.

5. There is no massive flow of illegal immigrants. That is not something you should worry about.

6. Immigrants can help those people by making this country better. It doesnt have to be an either or thing.

7. What the hell do i care what those countries do? We should let people in because it makes us better off. If we're the only country letting anybody even better. THAT is what can make america great.

8. Again. Dont care about those countries. They dont wanna let people in? Their loss.

9. Take that up with canada. Doesnt have any bearing on american immigration issues.

10. What is the UN supposed to be doing?

11. Illegal immigrants commit less crime per capita than natural born citizens.

12. Yup. Thats why we need more candidates who understand immigration.

13. Sure. Politicians generally blow. Trump is a very special kind of asshole though.

14. I didnt vote them in. Im fine with mixing things up. But picking a bigoted reality star with no idea how to run a country or implement productive policies isn't the right way to do it.

15. Nobody's asking you to support open borders. Im asking you to support immigration as a whole and realize that all this lashing out at illegal immigration is largely not fact based and is harmful to very productive immigrants and fellow citizens.

16. What the hell does communism or socialism have to do with anything? No offense dude but what the hell are you talking about/where did that come from?

 

[Skins2021]

Going point by point of your post...

1. That is not accurate. The source you posted is incredibly questionable. See my immediate response to you posting it for the details.

2. We deport a lot of people. It's not some happy go lucky everybody stroll on through sort of thing. Net illegal immigration has been a net negative over the past 12 years so the wall is a bad idea because it may not work, even if it does work it may not help or be necessary, and its a large expense that we do not need to be paying for.

3. The problem with limits is that they end up limiting skilled immigration usually. And skilled immigration is awesome. Also immigrants are much more educated than you seem to think.

4. Thats pretty off topic and has nothing to do with immigration. Im fine with cutting aid to countries but again...not the issue we're discussing.

5. There is no massive flow of illegal immigrants. That is not something you should worry about.

6. Immigrants can help those people by making this country better. It doesnt have to be an either or thing.

7. What the hell do i care what those countries do? We should let people in because it makes us better off. If we're the only country letting anybody even better. THAT is what can make america great.

8. Again. Dont care about those countries. They dont wanna let people in? Their loss.

9. Take that up with canada. Doesnt have any bearing on american immigration issues.

10. What is the UN supposed to be doing?

11. Illegal immigrants commit less crime per capita than natural born citizens.

12. Yup. Thats why we need more candidates who understand immigration.

13. Sure. Politicians generally blow. Trump is a very special kind of asshole though.

14. I didnt vote them in. Im fine with mixing things up. But picking a bigoted reality star with no idea how to run a country or implement productive policies isn't the right way to do it.

15. Nobody's asking you to support open borders. Im asking you to support immigration as a whole and realize that all this lashing out at illegal immigration is largely not fact based and is harmful to very productive immigrants and fellow citizens.

16. What the hell does communism or socialism have to do with anything? No offense dude but what the hell are you talking about/where did that come from?

hmm how do I put this.... you dont know anything.

you think you know everything but the reality is you dont know a thing. I was there. I was in your position. I "knew" everything. I didnt....

the group think of University campus is a shame and i cant pinpoint when it happened but in 2018 i'd place the weight of current collegiate students opinions as they relate to politics as low as possible on the totem pole.

 

[skinsdad62]

Going point by point of your post...

1. That is not accurate. The source you posted is incredibly questionable. See my immediate response to you posting it for the details.

2. We deport a lot of people. It's not some happy go lucky everybody stroll on through sort of thing. Net illegal immigration has been a net negative over the past 12 years so the wall is a bad idea because it may not work, even if it does work it may not help or be necessary, and its a large expense that we do not need to be paying for.

3. The problem with limits is that they end up limiting skilled immigration usually. And skilled immigration is awesome. Also immigrants are much more educated than you seem to think.

4. Thats pretty off topic and has nothing to do with immigration. Im fine with cutting aid to countries but again...not the issue we're discussing.

5. There is no massive flow of illegal immigrants. That is not something you should worry about.

6. Immigrants can help those people by making this country better. It doesnt have to be an either or thing.

7. What the hell do i care what those countries do? We should let people in because it makes us better off. If we're the only country letting anybody even better. THAT is what can make america great.

8. Again. Dont care about those countries. They dont wanna let people in? Their loss.

9. Take that up with canada. Doesnt have any bearing on american immigration issues.

10. What is the UN supposed to be doing?

11. Illegal immigrants commit less crime per capita than natural born citizens.

12. Yup. Thats why we need more candidates who understand immigration.

13. Sure. Politicians generally blow. Trump is a very special kind of asshole though.

14. I didnt vote them in. Im fine with mixing things up. But picking a bigoted reality star with no idea how to run a country or implement productive policies isn't the right way to do it.

15. Nobody's asking you to support open borders. Im asking you to support immigration as a whole and realize that all this lashing out at illegal immigration is largely not fact based and is harmful to very productive immigrants and fellow citizens.

16. What the hell does communism or socialism have to do with anything? No offense dude but what the hell are you talking about/where did that come from?

we have 12 -20 mil illegal immigrants here , we should have one

my data is accurate , i dont but george soros funded organizations and the debate about including daca people in it as some sort of skew is ridiculous

i dont but your net gain data either , but say i did , so what ? they are breaking our law and hence they should be gone period . if i enter those countries illegally i go to jail

why are we expected to do everything humanitarian in the world ? those other countries do little and the UN does very little as well

open borders are a policy that communist and socialist support in their effort for one world govt under their ideology and allowing illegal immigration is in fact open borders

i support LEGAL immigration and guest worker programs along with the wall and e verify . i will never support anything else

any crime an illegal commits is one that shouldnt happen period so i give a damn about per capita , in truth its 100% because you commited a crime by entering the country illegally

you dont have to like Trump at all . not important , i didnt like obama

 

[Sportster 72]

I think the key word is "legal" and not "immigrant."

This country was built on immigrants .... after they killed the indigenous people or gave them title to some of the worst land in this country.

I don't understand what the problem with being a legal immigrant is or why that should seem like we are being mean spirited or racist.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think the key word is "legal" and not "immigrant."

This country was built on immigrants .... after they killed the indigenous people or gave them title to some of the worst land in this country.

I don't understand what the problem with being a legal immigrant is or why that should seem like we are being mean spirited or racist.

When Legal immigration is being limited to certain countries, it can be sort of racist. When you can simply cross the border from Canada and all you need to do is present a passport, but it takes months and some times years to get permission to enter from Mexico..... one might see a bit of a color bias there... Im just saying. See the reality is we have an open border policy.. as long as you are British, French, Canadian, German, Italian, Norwegian or Australian.

 

[Skins2021]

When Legal immigration is being limited to certain countries, it can be sort of racist. When you can simply cross the border from Canada and all you need to do is present a passport, but it takes months and some times years to get permission to enter from Mexico..... one might see a bit of a color bias there... Im just saying. See the reality is we have an open border policy.. as long as you are British, French, Canadian, German, Italian, Norwegian or Australian.

take your everybody and everything is racist hat off for a second and try to think objectively using logic why it might be okay for a Canadian citizen to get into America with only a passport and not somebody from say Lebanon.

 

[skinsdad62]

When Legal immigration is being limited to certain countries, it can be sort of racist. When you can simply cross the border from Canada and all you need to do is present a passport, but it takes months and some times years to get permission to enter from Mexico..... one might see a bit of a color bias there... Im just saying. See the reality is we have an open border policy.. as long as you are British, French, Canadian, German, Italian, Norwegian or Australian.

what immigration is being limited from certain countries , the majority of immigration being allowed is from countries of color

are you talking about the middle east and the countries Obama himself banned ? and if so why cant our allies in those surrounding countries in the middle east take them in ? why does the US have to do this ? Those oil rich countries have money hand over fist

and why do we have to pay on the front end in central and south america with aid to help the disadvantaged only to have it ripped off and then turn around and have to pay for it on the back end again ?

why cant we simply have a guest worker program and keep only legal immigrants ? why cant we streamline the process ? and why is it racist to advocate doing so ?

why is it racist to say , secure the southern border with a wall , and we will let whomever is here stay ? just no more illegals ?

Trump offered the daca deal for the wall and dems rejected it , why ? , who says that the next step wouldnt be addressing the other 12 mil or so with different legislation with this president or the next one

no one ever wants to compromise anymore , or take things step by step , its either my way or the highway or i want it all now without delay

for over 80 years we had NO immigration what so ever

 

[Sharkinva]

take your everybody and everything is racist hat off for a second and try to think objectively using logic why it might be okay for a Canadian citizen to get into America with only a passport and not somebody from say Lebanon.

You ever think places like the Middle East would be a tad less pissed off with us if we didnt make it a point to try and tell them how they should run their respective countries? And when you have a country that was built on racism, elect a president who feeds into it.... what else do you expect??

 

[Sharkinva]

what immigration is being limited from certain countries , the majority of immigration being allowed is from countries of color

are you talking about the middle east and the countries Obama himself banned ? and if so why cant our allies in those surrounding countries in the middle east take them in ? why does the US have to do this ? Those oil rich countries have money hand over fist

and why do we have to pay on the front end in central and south america with aid to help the disadvantaged only to have it ripped off and then turn around and have to pay for it on the back end again ?

why cant we simply have a guest worker program and keep only legal immigrants ? why cant we streamline the process ? and why is it racist to advocate doing so ?

why is it racist to say , secure the southern border with a wall , and we will let whomever is here stay ? just no more illegals ?

Trump offered the daca deal for the wall and dems rejected it , why ? , who says that the next step wouldnt be addressing the other 12 mil or so with different legislation with this president or the next one

no one ever wants to compromise anymore , or take things step by step , its either my way or the highway or i want it all now without delay

for over 80 years we had NO immigration what so ever

Trump Unveils Legislation Limiting Legal Immigration

Forgive me if I see a President who is pandering to a crowd that feels if you are not white you are not welcome. Sorry if it bothers me more that we are willing to import food more than we are willing to import people. And that we are great with exporting jobs, yet have the sack to complain about unemployment rates.

 

[gkekoa]

Going point by point of your post...

1. That is not accurate. The source you posted is incredibly questionable. See my immediate response to you posting it for the details.

2. We deport a lot of people. It's not some happy go lucky everybody stroll on through sort of thing. Net illegal immigration has been a net negative over the past 12 years so the wall is a bad idea because it may not work, even if it does work it may not help or be necessary, and its a large expense that we do not need to be paying for.

3. The problem with limits is that they end up limiting skilled immigration usually. And skilled immigration is awesome. Also immigrants are much more educated than you seem to think.

4. Thats pretty off topic and has nothing to do with immigration. Im fine with cutting aid to countries but again...not the issue we're discussing.

5. There is no massive flow of illegal immigrants. That is not something you should worry about.

6. Immigrants can help those people by making this country better. It doesnt have to be an either or thing.

7. What the hell do i care what those countries do? We should let people in because it makes us better off. If we're the only country letting anybody even better. THAT is what can make america great.

8. Again. Dont care about those countries. They dont wanna let people in? Their loss.

9. Take that up with canada. Doesnt have any bearing on american immigration issues.

10. What is the UN supposed to be doing?

11. Illegal immigrants commit less crime per capita than natural born citizens.

12. Yup. Thats why we need more candidates who understand immigration.

13. Sure. Politicians generally blow. Trump is a very special kind of asshole though.

14. I didnt vote them in. Im fine with mixing things up. But picking a bigoted reality star with no idea how to run a country or implement productive policies isn't the right way to do it.

15. Nobody's asking you to support open borders. Im asking you to support immigration as a whole and realize that all this lashing out at illegal immigration is largely not fact based and is harmful to very productive immigrants and fellow citizens.

16. What the hell does communism or socialism have to do with anything? No offense dude but what the hell are you talking about/where did that come from?

1- What makes Dad’s source questionable but your source unbiased? Can you disprove anything written in the FAIR article? They gave actual numbers, broken down. That is far more telling than a liberal think tank telling you what to believe without giving you data. Show his data to be incorrect and then you may have a point.

2- Again, it is impossible to figure out if immigration is up or down because the numbers are based on self-reporting. You never did answer, if you broke the law, would you self report?

3- Simply not true. We need to put limits on all immigration because we have qualified Americans out of work. Immigration should be used a supplement and we should be extremely picky on who we let in.

4- Actually it ties into illegal immigration perfectly. They come here to live a better life. We are trying to aid their countries so they can improve the lives of their own people. Corruption prevents this. We went to war with England because we didn’t like how things were. Why can’t other people do the same in their countries?

5- There is a massive flow, both ways. Anything that hurts American citizens, especially here in America, is simply wrong. Not a dime should go to foreigners until we take care of our own.

6- But those immigrants do not help American citizens. There is a limited amount of tax-payer money, so yes it does have to be an either/or thing. Let’s fix the US first, then discuss the rest of the world.

7- Tell me how immigrants help this country, be exact.

8- see 7

9- This is where your argument makes no sense. Canada doesn’t want to allow ILLEGALS into their country, asylum seekers. It isn’t their loss for not accepting the dregs of society. Canada allows a lot of immigration, they just want it done legally so they can get skilled people.

10- The U.N. should be doing their job that we pay a brunt of them to do.

11- Not true. 100% of illegal immigrants commit crime. From there, our prison system is littered with people who should have never been here. From there, one crime committed against a US citizen by a non-citizen is inexcusable.

12- What? That doesn’t even make sense.

13- I don’t like Trump but he is a helluva lot better policy wise than the last two POTUS.

14- Prove to me he is a bigot.

15- your whole statement was BS

16- Immigrants, especially illegals, are not assimilating. They are trying to convert the US into what they left.

 

[Sharkinva]

4- Actually it ties into illegal immigration perfectly. They come here to live a better life. We are trying to aid their countries so they can improve the lives of their own people. Corruption prevents this. We went to war with England because we didn’t like how things were. Why can’t other people do the same in their countries?

IM just going to touch on this one.

MOst of these corrupt governments are people the US either has at one point, or still actively supports under the guise of the best interests of the American people. You realize we put Sadam in Power, and only turned on him when he made nice with Iran. Bin Laden got his degree in the US. Again when he got out of pocket, well the US didnt take kindly to that.

And its odd that when people in this country raise questions about inequality in this country, they are labeled as racists or SOBs and invited to leave if they dont like it here.

 

[gkekoa]

When Legal immigration is being limited to certain countries, it can be sort of racist. When you can simply cross the border from Canada and all you need to do is present a passport, but it takes months and some times years to get permission to enter from Mexico..... one might see a bit of a color bias there... Im just saying. See the reality is we have an open border policy.. as long as you are British, French, Canadian, German, Italian, Norwegian or Australian.

How? Countries are not a race.

Look at the crime rate differences in Canada and Mexico.

It isn’t about color. Get over the color thing and be a little more realistic. Mexico...high crime rate and drug issues could have nothing to do with it right? I am just saying.