politics thread

[Sharkinva]

What? I don't have an issue with a level playing field in theory but is it really happening in practice?

You are right though... when no one is watching people will take the easiest route to the tune of <$2 billion. My gripe is that they aren't providing any service. Is that an unreasonable gripe? I dont see a playing field leveled, instead I see a dependency building.

And i see them doing what other companies have been doing for years. Is it right?? Not at all. But the reality is, these arent the first companies to game the system, and the odds are it is not just the minority based companies doing this. Or are you making the claim that the $2B paid to minority companies is for work that isnt being done, but the other $11B is all going to fine upstanding non minority based companies that are all providing the services promised and at a lower rate to boot??

 

[Skins2021]

And i see them doing what other companies have been doing for years. Is it right?? Not at all. But the reality is, these arent the first companies to game the system, and the odds are it is not just the minority based companies doing this. Or are you making the claim that the $2B paid to minority companies is for work that isnt being done, but the other $11B is all going to fine upstanding non minority based companies that are all providing the services promised and at a lower rate to boot??

Nope not making any claims like that. In fact I stated in an earlier response that I can only speak of which I have experienced. I'm not sure if its a national problem or not but 100% of what I came across (I do not work for an MBE) is a sham playing the system. For <$2 million I think it would be wise to at least look into it?

I doubt this was going on for years as the contracts were more cut and dry. You provide food service for $, janitorial needs for $, supplies and food for $ etc. Now what I have come across in my experience are MBEs setup for the sole purpose of fulfilling an MBE requirement in the contract, such as "the handling of invoices."

If an MBE lands say the food service contract they dont need to hire anyone to "handle invoices" and skim 15% of the contract.

Besides providing a shitty low par service the only opportunity I see to potentially game the system, as you say, is fulfilling contractual requirements such as MBEs. I'm sure there might be other ways but this one is a bit more blatant.

The purpose may have been to create a competitive balance with the intention of the "beef" of the contract going towards MBEs such as food, paper, chemical vendors or maintenance vendors or the actual service vendor. The problem is companies like Aramark, Sodexo, Compass etc have that market cornered so there becomes a need for some of these BS MBEs to hit contract requirements...

What would make more sense theoretically is if 15% of the $14 billion went to MBEs instead of 15% of each individual contract but how do you regulate and tell which businesses who they can and can not hire? I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

 

[Sharkinva]

Nope not making any claims like that. In fact I stated in an earlier response that I can only speak of which I have experienced. I'm not sure if its a national problem or not but 100% of what I came across (I do not work for an MBE) is a sham playing the system. For <$2 million I think it would be wise to at least look into it?

I doubt this was going on for years as the contracts were more cut and dry. You provide food service for $, janitorial needs for $, supplies and food for $ etc. Now what I have come across in my experience is MBEs setup for the sole purpose of fulfilling an MBE requirement in the contract, such as "the handling of invoices."

If an MBE lands say the food service contract they dont need to hire anyone to "handle invoices" and skim 15% of the contract.

Besides providing a shitty low par service the only opportunity I see to potentially game the system, as you say, is fulfilling contractual requirements such as MBEs. I'm sure there might be other ways but this one is a bit more blatant.

The purpose may have been to create a competitive balance with the intention of the "beef" of the contract going towards MBEs such as food, paper, chemical vendors or maintenance vendors or the actual service vendor. The problem is companies like Aramark, Sodexo, Compass etc have that market cornered so there becomes a need for some of these BS MBEs to hit contract requirements...

What would make more sense theoretically is if 15% of the $14 billion went to MBEs instead of 15% of each individual contract but how do you regulate and tell which businesses who they can and can not hire? I'm not smart enough to figure that out.

Again I will simply point out, if we had not had years of Minority Business not getting even a chance to actually do business with the government, there would not now be a need for programs like this.

 

[Peter Gozintite]

we were going off topic ... so i will post this here



you can find opinions on both sides ... if you look hard enough.

but i agree, journalist ... like college professors ... tend to come from the same ilk.

but i would not recommend folks stop reading or going to school just because the majority of professors & journalists are liberal.

and its not just the WaPo that has been struggling ...the industry in general has been losing readership since ted turner & the 24 hour news cycle.... because lazy people find it easier & faster to get their information mouth fed to them from video.

i am one of those people.

anyone old enough to remember morning & afternoon papers ?

the industry has gone through alot of changes.

but similar to the music industry ... they're figuring out how to monetize their product for the web. And i doubt there is any chance of them going under with the richest man on the plant backing them.

there will always be a demand for content ... so journalist wont be going anywhere & the necessity to keep the institution of the local paper is still a very important one.

I didnt know you could post anything but music vids

 

[gkekoa]

Make America Great Again is a shot at Obama/Bush IMO. (who I believe will be looked at by historians as two of the worst 2 term presidents of the modern era)

Obama will never be judged fairly because he is the first black POTUS. He will always be protected.

 

[gkekoa]

So basically the government trying to level the playing field and get rid of the good ole boys mentality is wrong. Got it. Because things were much better for every one when Senator Baynard (Name made up) would get elected, and farm most or all of the government contracts to his buddy Bubba at over inflated prices, and a Minority company was not even given the chance to bid on the work.

The irony of this entire situation is that now White Heterosexual Christian males are actually feeling that they are being discriminated against and that it is wrong, when this country was built on discriminating against minorities. So things are equal enough now and we need to get back to the way things were??

By the way, of those contracts that now HAVE to go to minority owned companies, how much of the work is that?? 10, 15%?? The horror of the government having to force competitive business practices.

Are you trying to circumvent?

Your problem is with the good ole boys network...that isn’t white men. Plenty of white men never get the government contracts or are even considered. You do realize Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Diane Feinstein, and most professional athletes turned businessmen are part of the network?

White Christian men are not feeling like they are being discriminated against...we have shown they are being discriminated against.

So stop being a furry Tom, stop thinking all white men are Calvin Barnard, and let’s shred this conversation. This paragraph is a total joke btw.

 

[Sharkinva]

Obama will never be judged fairly because he is the first black POTUS. He will always be protected.

And if certain groups would have had their way, he would have never been POTUS. And honestly, if he had even 10% of the character questions our current POTUS has, he would have never even been considered.

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you trying to circumvent?

Your problem is with the good ole boys network...that isn’t white men. Plenty of white men never get the government contracts or are even considered. You do realize Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Diane Feinstein, and most professional athletes turned businessmen are part of the network?

White Christian men are not feeling like they are being discriminated against...we have shown they are being discriminated against.

So stop being a furry Tom, stop thinking all white men are Calvin Barnard, and let’s shred this conversation. This paragraph is a total joke btw.

Correct me if Im wrong..

You are White, Christian, Heterosexual and male. And you have made the claim numerous times that the government is passing laws that discriminate against you??

The Irony of that is epic by the way.

 

[gkekoa]

Correct me if Im wrong..

You are White, Christian, Heterosexual and male. And you have made the claim numerous times that the government is passing laws that discriminate against you??

The Irony of that is epic by the way.

Again, I have shown laws that discriminate against white, Christian, heterosexual males. You can’t show me another group that has laws targeting them.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again, I have shown laws that discriminate against white, Christian, heterosexual males. You can’t show me another group that has laws targeting them.

You have shown laws designed to explicitly give rights to minorities, that are assumed privileges given to white men.

BUt again, show me a law that says as a white male you are NOT allowed to do something that non white person is allowed to do??

 

[gkekoa]

And if certain groups would have had their way, he would have never been POTUS. And honestly, if he had even 10% of the character questions our current POTUS has, he would have never even been considered.

I am part of the group that would have never saw him as POTUS but I would vote for Allen West in a heart beat or MIA Love for that matter...not to mention Condi.

Trump was elected because he is a sucessful businessman and a Washington outsider. I voted for Ted Cruz, went to a Ben Carson rally, and really wanted Carly Fiorina but she never got the backing. I am really hoping the GOP gets smart and starts promoting MIA Love.

Obama had plenty of warts but nobody was willing to bring them up in the election...everything from his birth certificate started by Hillary to his collegiate records, to his involvement with ACORN, and Jeremiah Wright.

 

[Skins2021]

I am part of the group that would have never saw him as POTUS but I would vote for Allen West in a heart beat or MIA Love for that matter...not to mention Condi.

Trump was elected because he is a sucessful businessman and a Washington outsider. I voted for Ted Cruz, went to a Ben Carson rally, and really wanted Carly Fiorina but she never got the backing. I am really hoping the GOP gets smart and starts promoting MIA Love.

Obama had plenty of warts but nobody was willing to bring them up in the election...everything from his birth certificate started by Hillary to his collegiate records, to his involvement with ACORN, and Jeremiah Wright.

His connection to Jeremiah Wright I always found to be really unsettling.

Obama was also elected because he was an outsider. To me I saw his limited political career as a positive. I almost voted for him 1st term but ended up writing in 3rd party.

"Obama will never be judged fairly because he is the first black POTUS. He will always be protected."

I dont think he will be judged fairly over the next 10 years or so but I hope that will change down the line when race is no longer a defining characteristic because as a president he was pretty damn bad.

 

[Skins2021]

Again I will simply point out, if we had not had years of Minority Business not getting even a chance to actually do business with the government, there would not now be a need for programs like this.

Yes I understand that. But like I said the programs in place in my experience is nothing more then a handout. I think there are better ways to go about it.

Instead of requiring an MBE to be 15% of the contract maybe incentivize the hiring establishments with government kickbacks.

When a government contract goes to bid and there is an established service MBE such as T.U.C.S in Philadelphia area for environmental services its virtually impossible to get that contract no matter how much better your service and price might be.

 

[gkekoa]

You have shown laws designed to explicitly give rights to minorities, that are assumed privileges given to white men.

BUt again, show me a law that says as a white male you are NOT allowed to do something that non white person is allowed to do??

No...I have shown laws specifically alienating based on race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation. The laws passed that protect minority rights are the 14th and 15th Amendments of the US Constitution.

I am not given equal protection under the law. Equal protection would mean we don’t have quotas or rewards for minorities.


14th Amendment- All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

15th Amendment- The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Translations...

14th Amendment- Citizens of the US are citizens of the country and the state they live. No state can make a law to violate their Constitutional rights...notice equal protection under the law for all citizens.

15th Amendment- Accompanied by the previous amendment and equal protection, all citizens can vote.

 

[Sharkinva]

No...I have shown laws specifically alienating based on race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation. The laws passed that protect minority rights are the 14th and 15th Amendments of the US Constitution.

I am not given equal protection under the law. Equal protection would mean we don’t have quotas or rewards for minorities.


14th Amendment- All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

15th Amendment- The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Translations...

14th Amendment- Citizens of the US are citizens of the country and the state they live. No state can make a law to violate their Constitutional rights...notice equal protection under the law for all citizens.

15th Amendment- Accompanied by the previous amendment and equal protection, all citizens can vote.

Awesome. And if certain portions of the population didnt make a habit of totally ignoring these amendments, you wouldnt need laws that set up quotas to remind people that race, religion or sexual orientation is not a valid reason to try and exclude some one from the hiring process. I will also point out that the 14th amendment was written in 1868 and slavery ended in 1865. So you really want me to think this was written to encompass ALL Americans, when for the most part non whites had barely been granted freedom from slavery??

I will also point out that just because a law is written that says you cant discriminate against some one because they are not a WCHM, that does not mean it automatically discriminates against that group. Equal protection would mean we dont have to force people to do the right thing in the first place.

 

[gkekoa]

Awesome. And if certain portions of the population didnt make a habit of totally ignoring these amendments, you wouldnt need laws that set up quotas to remind people that race, religion or sexual orientation is not a valid reason to try and exclude some one from the hiring process. I will also point out that the 14th amendment was written in 1868 and slavery ended in 1865. So you really want me to think this was written to encompass ALL Americans, when for the most part non whites had barely been granted freedom from slavery??

I will also point out that just because a law is written that says you cant discriminate against some one because they are not a WCHM, that does not mean it automatically discriminates against that group. Equal protection would mean we dont have to force people to do the right thing in the first place.

Here is the thing. These amendments were never meant to be for our interactions. They are protections from government.

That being said, we treat them as such. Well, if you show me actual proof that companies do not hire based on those qualities, then I will back you in that scenario.

As for the 14th, yes it was written to encompass all Americans because some states still were not protecting the rights of blacks.

When a law, specifically alienates a group of people, then yes it is discriminatory. You know damn well that is what is meant. If you are honest with yourself and the rest of us, you would admit this is true.

 

[Sharkinva]

Here is the thing. These amendments were never meant to be for our interactions. They are protections from government.

That being said, we treat them as such. Well, if you show me actual proof that companies do not hire based on those qualities, then I will back you in that scenario.

As for the 14th, yes it was written to encompass all Americans because some states still were not protecting the rights of blacks.

When a law, specifically alienates a group of people, then yes it is discriminatory. You know damn well that is what is meant. If you are honest with yourself and the rest of us, you would admit this is true.

I will show that proof right as soon as you can show me proof that hiring individuals DONT base those decisions on things like race, age, or sexual orientation. See no company is stupid enough to put this in writing, but the fact that companies have been sued and LOST for firing some one based on race, sexual orientation, religion or other non work related factors should tell us, we still have a problem.

You would think after 150 YEARS race would not still be an issue in this country. And yet in OUR life time, we have had lynchings, a black man dragged to his death behind a truck, and we currently have laws on the books that by either intent or application target non whites.

Now i would love to never have to worry, was i stopped because I did something wrong while driving, or was it simply the act of driving while black. I would also LOVE it if my niece didnt come home in tears because a class mate decided it was OK to tell her I cant wait for Trump to deport you.

If shit like this didnt still happen 150 years after we were "Freed" then laws like the ones you mention might not be needed.

 

[gkekoa]

I will show that proof right as soon as you can show me proof that hiring individuals DONT base those decisions on things like race, age, or sexual orientation. See no company is stupid enough to put this in writing, but the fact that companies have been sued and LOST for firing some one based on race, sexual orientation, religion or other non work related factors should tell us, we still have a problem.

You would think after 150 YEARS race would not still be an issue in this country. And yet in OUR life time, we have had lynchings, a black man dragged to his death behind a truck, and we currently have laws on the books that by either intent or application target non whites.

Now i would love to never have to worry, was i stopped because I did something wrong while driving, or was it simply the act of driving while black. I would also LOVE it if my niece didnt come home in tears because a class mate decided it was OK to tell her I cant wait for Trump to deport you.

If shit like this didnt still happen 150 years after we were "Freed" then laws like the ones you mention might not be needed.

We are talking legality so you need to prove guilt.

You would think after 150 years race would not be an issue in this country. And yet in our lifetime, we have had blacks committing far more crime against whites, people wanting to “kill all white people,” 4 black people attacking a disabled white, and many more. If you have ever been pulled over and literally did nothing wrong, I got your back in that instance.

Is your niece here illegally? Seriously, kids are mean to each other. They were when we were younger as well. I was a basketball player growing up and let’s just say white people arent treated well on the court. It is the same thing.


Letter: White people are disproportionately targeted for crime
‘Kill all white people’: Accused killer who targeted white victims now charged in six deaths

 

[Sharkinva]

We are talking legality so you need to prove guilt.

You would think after 150 years race would not be an issue in this country. And yet in our lifetime, we have had blacks committing far more crime against whites, people wanting to “kill all white people,” 4 black people attacking a disabled white, and many more. If you have ever been pulled over and literally did nothing wrong, I got your back in that instance.

Is your niece here illegally? Seriously, kids are mean to each other. They were when we were younger as well. I was a basketball player growing up and let’s just say white people arent treated well on the court. It is the same thing.


Letter: White people are disproportionately targeted for crime
‘Kill all white people’: Accused killer who targeted white victims now charged in six deaths

So wait a minute, companies losing in court for wrongful termination over race, sex or other minority status does not legally prove we still have an issue??

And i agree kids are mean. But the real problem is that ADULTS in this country make it ok for kids to say stuff like this, and in far too many cases encourage it.

As for whites being some how more targets for crime
1. There are more of you
2. If Im going to rob some one (not that I ever have) IM not going to target the guy who looks like he might have less in his wallet than I do.

 

[gkekoa]

So wait a minute, companies losing in court for wrongful termination over race, sex or other minority status does not legally prove we still have an issue??

And i agree kids are mean. But the real problem is that ADULTS in this country make it ok for kids to say stuff like this, and in far too many cases encourage it.

As for whites being some how more targets for crime
1. There are more of you
2. If Im going to rob some one (not that I ever have) IM not going to target the guy who looks like he might have less in his wallet than I do.

It proves they are isolated incidences and considering only a preponderance of evidence is needed, it really proves nothing. In these cases, there are usually other reasons they were fired. 5he plaintiff tries to show there was some tie in to race or sexuality.

So you agree black people do it too. It is called human nature.

Since there are more of us, shouldn’t more of us be doing the crime? The victim is doing nothing but exist. The criminal has to actually do something.

So, it has nothing to do with race. It is a socioeconomic issue. Why keep complaining about race then?

You see. You brought up the few cases of lynching and black men being drug behind a car. I just refuted your statements showing the opposite because it isn’t a rampant problem. It is an individual and rare issue.