politics thread

[gkekoa]

Umm... lets not bullshit here. White men in America did in fact perfect Slavery to a point were they devalued black men and women to the point of live stock, and occasional sex toys that were NOTHING more than property. They breed us like cattle for acceptable traits that would in fact make us better suited for work in the fields. A black man in this country could rarely if EVER gain freedom by any means other than running away.

If that is NOT a perfect system of slavery.. please give me a better example??

If I went up to the wrong black person and used the N word in ANY context, I would expect and in most cases actually BE picking a fight. IN MOST cases a white person using that word would be using it to convey some sense of superiority over said Nigra, or yes as a disparagement.

Do you really believe whites were the first to push traits in slaves or sexual partners?
They probably treated their slaves better realizing breaking “property” is unwise.

If I were hanging out with my black friend Haji and called him my N worda and a random black dude heard it, do you think there is a chance he responds or is offended? Now let’s say you were hanging out with Haji and did the same thing, do you think that same black guy blinks?

Didn’t Dr. King fight for “social justice?” Is it “justice” to attack one man for saying a particular word and not attack another?

 

[Sharkinva]

Do you really believe whites were the first to push traits in slaves or sexual partners?
They probably treated their slaves better realizing breaking “property” is unwise.

Dude.. are you seriously STILL trying to defend the American slave trade in any way shape or form?? As i said, show me another example where an entire RACE was relegated to nothing but property or possible property. Show me another instance of mass slavery where the OWNERS decided who you were and were not allowed to breed with, would allow you to breed only to sell you away from the family they so graciously gave you. And in their superior wisdom they probably treated their slaves better because they were smart enough to realize it was bad for business to damage the property??

 

[gkekoa]

Dude.. are you seriously STILL trying to defend the American slave trade in any way shape or form?? As i said, show me another example where an entire RACE was relegated to nothing but property or possible property. Show me another instance of mass slavery where the OWNERS decided who you were and were not allowed to breed with, would allow you to breed only to sell you away from the family they so graciously gave you. And in their superior wisdom they probably treated their slaves better because they were smart enough to realize it was bad for business to damage the property??

I am defending the practice in as far as every country in history has enslaved people; yet, only America should be ashamed of the practice. Why are we the only country to shame people who had nothing to do with slavery for there having been slavery? Why aren’t these same outraged people outraged by the fact slavery exists stil today in other countries?

Very few slaveholders actually did what you claim; however, I would call it smart. Had I been a slaveowner, i definitely would have encouraged breeding of certain traits, wouldn’t you? I would have tried to keep my slaves happy and encouraged to keep up their productivity? Does that make me a bad person?

 

[Sharkinva]

I am defending the practice in as far as every country in history has enslaved people; yet, only America should be ashamed of the practice. Why are we the only country to shame people who had nothing to do with slavery for there having been slavery? Why aren’t these same outraged people outraged by the fact slavery exists stil today in other countries?

Very few slaveholders actually did what you claim; however, I would call it smart. Had I been a slaveowner, i definitely would have encouraged breeding of certain traits, wouldn’t you? I would have tried to keep my slaves happy and encouraged to keep up their productivity? Does that make me a bad person?

This statement right here is what honestly makes me think that while you might not be openly racist, you do in fact maintain some sort of pride in America's history in this instance and on some level feel that level of superiority that allowed the American slave trade to begin with.

I dont think you or any other white person should feel shame for something you had no part in. But I do think owning up to the fact that this country does still by and large treat any one non white as second class in entirely too many instances would go a long way towards convincing those people that this country has changed.

 

[gkekoa]

This statement right here is what honestly makes me think that while you might not be openly racist, you do in fact maintain some sort of pride in America's history in this instance and on some level feel that level of superiority that allowed the American slave trade to begin with.

I dont think you or any other white person should feel shame for something you had no part in. But I do think owning up to the fact that this country does still by and large treat any one non white as second class in entirely too many instances would go a long way towards convincing those people that this country has changed.

I maintain pride in America’s history openly. Am I happy with the result of American slave trade? Yes because it helped create what America is today. Who knows what America would be had there not been a slave trade? The US had slavery for all of 60 years. Find me a country that got rid of it quicker.

How does this country treat non whites like second class citizens? Give me actual examples.

 

[Sportster 72]

Did white men in America invent Slavery?? Nope.. but they damn sure perfected it.


Secondly.... If you feel the need, desire or right to express yourself by saying the N word, that is your right. How ever by asserting that right, one must be willing to accept the possible outcome of claiming your equality.

shark you sort of game me the answer I was fishing for. I think my friend you spoke from your heart and not your head. Are you sure white men perfected slavery? I think that is your reality but not historical reality.

You said "if you feel the need to use the N word ...." Is that in general or did you mean me personally. The words I had in mind were racial slurs for Hispanics or Jews. I don't use either one I was just illustrating a point.

I won't waver from my statement that any race gets to decide what is equal rights for their race but not another. Equality is equality. You either want it or you don't. And by the way I get it. I slanted the conversation when I could have just as easily used gay folks who do call slurs towards each other while they would be very upsert (or worse.) We both know you can take issues like this in many different directions.

 

[Sharkinva]

How does this country treat non whites like second class citizens? Give me actual examples.

We have been over this numerous times. In things like credit, Jobs, how the police treat non whites. You maintain pride in American History because it worked out to favor you and yours and continues to do so. I maintain pride in the man I am, I maintain pride in what this country CLAIMS it wants to be. But any one with a heart and a shred of decency would be ashamed of this countries history, and honestly in the direction our LEADERS are trying to take us in.

 

[Sharkinva]

shark you sort of game me the answer I was fishing for. I think my friend you spoke from your heart and not your head. Are you sure white men perfected slavery? I think that is your reality but not historical reality.

I will simply ask you the same question I asked GK. Show me a more perfect system of slavery on a mass scale than the one that was practiced in the US??

 

[gkekoa]

We have been over this numerous times. In things like credit, Jobs, how the police treat non whites. You maintain pride in American History because it worked out to favor you and yours and continues to do so. I maintain pride in the man I am, I maintain pride in what this country CLAIMS it wants to be. But any one with a heart and a shred of decency would be ashamed of this countries history, and honestly in the direction our LEADERS are trying to take us in.

That isn’t America treating blacks differently. Those are organizations who use many metrics on who to extend credit to. Do those credit extensions include locations? Can you verify it is race causing problems with credit? Can you prove it is race that prevents certain people from getting a job? Could it be a poor interview? Could it be syntax? Could there be more to it? Are cops really worse with treatment of black criminals? Could it be the difference in how the black criminal interacts with the police?

So you don’t think things have worked out for you because of the history of people before you? Had there not been slavery, maybe you would be a member of Boko Haram and have slaves of your own while raping women after murdering their husbands. Maybe you would be a member of a militia in Africa that does those same things. Maybe you would have been one of the murdered. As a black man in the US, you have it better than black men and white men everywhere else in the world.

What direction do you see the representatives of this country wanting to lead us? I see them as wanting to make things “fair” for all Americans. They want equality among Americans. They have not pushed for or made a single policy suggestion wanting to put any sect of Americans over another sect of Americans that would require somebody to sacrifice something they actually earned.

 

[Sportster 72]

I am a student of history. I know I am right. It doesn't really matter. Slavery in any form is wrong. IMO trying to make one worse than the other is not the point.

 

[gkekoa]

We have been over this numerous times. In things like credit, Jobs, how the police treat non whites. You maintain pride in American History because it worked out to favor you and yours and continues to do so. I maintain pride in the man I am, I maintain pride in what this country CLAIMS it wants to be. But any one with a heart and a shred of decency would be ashamed of this countries history, and honestly in the direction our LEADERS are trying to take us in.

Oops, I forgot.

I guess I am not a decent human being, or I should say I don’t have a shred of decency. I have no shame in our history. Have you ever made a mistake? Did it make you stronger?

 

[Sportster 72]

Anyhow. I am out. I personally don't like that we even have these discussions on a football forum .... even in this thread. But this was agreed upon so I'll hush.

I will tell you this. I am from a white European ancestors. Mostly Irish, Scottish and English. Currently my family is made of those descendants I just mentioned and as time has moved on members have taken black, Japanese and Mexican spouses. So you can see I don't really have a dog in this fight. Hopefully one of these days we will all learn to live the way God intended.

 

[Sharkinva]

I am a student of history. I know I am right. It doesn't really matter. Slavery in any form is wrong. IMO trying to make one worse than the other is not the point.

I 100% agree. How ever, when some folks try and justify the American slave trade with statements like.. well America didnt invent slavery.... I tend to find that a bit disingenuous and rather self serving.

 

[Sharkinva]

Oops, I forgot.

I guess I am not a decent human being, or I should say I don’t have a shred of decency. I have no shame in our history. Have you ever made a mistake? Did it make you stronger?

Sure... but I dont take pride in those mistakes even if they did make me stronger. And I damn sure dont try and justify them by saying, well its just who I was at the time.

 

[gkekoa]

Sure... but I dont take pride in those mistakes even if they did make me stronger. And I damn sure dont try and justify them by saying, well its just who I was at the time.

It isn’t taking pride in the mistake to take pride in who you are. It is pride in learning from the mistake. Would I rather never had to make the mistake, of course.

If the mistake of slavery had never been made, America would be much whiter, and you would likely be an African.

 

[gkekoa]

I 100% agree. How ever, when some folks try and justify the American slave trade with statements like.. well America didnt invent slavery.... I tend to find that a bit disingenuous and rather self serving.

Isn’t it disingenuous to be so outraged by slavery in the US 160 years ago, but not really have an issue with slavery existing today?

 

[Sharkinva]

It isn’t taking pride in the mistake to take pride in who you are. It is pride in learning from the mistake. Would I rather never had to make the mistake, of course.

If the mistake of slavery had never been made, America would be much whiter, and you would likely be an African.

I think I just found the fundamental difference then.... If some one came to me and said.... giving my life would mean American Slavery never happened, but neither would my entire family tree as I know it... I would gladly ask where do I sign up.

 

[Sharkinva]

Isn’t it disingenuous to be so outraged by slavery in the US 160 years ago, but not really have an issue with slavery existing today?

Who says I dont have an issue with slavery in todays world?? IN most civilized nations slavery is illegal today. And to be honest if I KNEW some one was being held or treated as a slave, and I had the ability to stop it.. I would.

 

[Sportster 72]

I 100% agree. How ever, when some folks try and justify the American slave trade with statements like.. well Ameria didnt invent slavery.... I tend to find that a bit disingenuous and rather self serving.

You and I both know I did not say "well America didn't invent slavery"

We could have some good conversations about this and its many branches but it is almost impossible on a forum. I'll just finish saying in my opinion it wasn't acceptable to have slaves help build pyramids, row Roman ships or be forced to farm fields.

 

[Sharkinva]

You and I both know I did not say "well America didn't invent slavery"

Hence my statement "When some folks". Its all good.