Passion Bucket

[nuraman00]

I figured it out. Only try against teams that you know you will lose to. And hope you do. Don't tank every game.

There's no teams I think the Jazz will lose to 100% of the time. I think they have a chance to beat anyone.

Also, I don't want to hope the Jazz lose. I want to hope they win, and I want to see some amazing performances that make me think there's above average talent on the team. Or I want to see the type of team wins where I can at least give them a B+.

Or I want to see Burke have a good game against a veteran PG, and I want him to at least hold his own. I want to see how he competes.

I'd like to see Favors play like Kirilenko did when Kirilenko was good, but don't think Favors can reach at that level anymore. He's starting to look like someone who will have a few good plays game, but not quite be the impact maker that a quasi-All-Star does.

So I'm not sure what you figured out. Maybe you should wear reverse jinx shirts against teams you think the Jazz will lose to.

 

[MHSL82]

No, I am not talking about the year after Stockton and Malone left. That was 2003-2004, when they nearly made the playoffs with Kirilenko getting the All-Star nod.

I am talking about 2004-2005. That was the offseason when they signed Boozer and Okur. But Arroyo and Lopez couldn't keep up their play from a year ago, and Boozer was hurt halfway through the season. And Kirilenko couldn't keep up his play from the year prior also. So the Jazz won 26 games.

Some people thought that Sloan couldn't reach the team anymore.

But I am curious as to what you and Sackataters thought, as that was the previous season comparable to this one.

Perhaps you didn't have time to watch games that season either.

That year was not similar to this year. We don't have Jerry Sloan coaching the team. Just my perspective. I will not say he is the best coach ever in the whole world and doesn't have his flaws, but he's better than Ty Corbin, even at their respective ages. Again, not saying that there isn't anyone better than Sloan at this time, just better then Corbin. Also not saying Corbin is the worst coach ever. But he is, just kidding.

 

[MHSL82]

There's no teams I think the Jazz will lose to 100% of the time. I think they have a chance to beat anyone.

Also, I don't want to hope the Jazz lose. I want to hope they win, and I want to see some amazing performances that make me think there's above average talent on the team. Or I want to see the type of team wins where I can at least give them a B+.

Or I want to see Burke have a good game against a veteran PG, and I want him to at least hold his own. I want to see how he competes.

I'd like to see Favors play like Kirilenko did when Kirilenko was good, but don't think Favors can reach at that level anymore. He's starting to look like someone who will have a few good plays game, but not quite be the impact maker that a quasi-All-Star does.

So I'm not sure what you figured out. Maybe you should wear reverse jinx shirts against teams you think the Jazz will lose to.

Why would I do that? You just proved that doesn't work. Unless you're different luck than I am. Also I'm not spending money on other teams. You want something special, we don't have it. At least not yet. The only person that I am optimistic for is Trey Burke. I think Derrick Favors and Enis Kanter can be pretty good but depends what on you're talking about as special. I don't see them being as that. It's not that I would trade them or get rid of them, just not special.

And if we think that we're going to lose to every team, then we can try against every team. So we just need to think we're going to lose. We will be wrong half the time or so. When I said that I figured it out, I was talking about the dilemma of trying hard to win and ruining your draft pick versus securing your draft pick. I hope you do know that I'm kidding. To be honest, I really do believe that the Lakers will get a higher pick than we will. Nothing we can do about it.

 

[nuraman00]

That year was not similar to this year. We don't have Jerry Sloan coaching the team. Just my perspective. I will not say he is the best coach ever in the whole world and doesn't have his flaws, but he's better than Ty Corbin, even at their respective ages. Again, not saying that there isn't anyone better than Sloan at this time, just better then Corbin. Also not saying Corbin is the worst coach ever. But he is, just kidding.

Thanks.

 

[nuraman00]

Why would I do that? You just proved that doesn't work. Unless you're different luck than I am. Also I'm not spending money on other teams. You want something special, we don't have it. At least not yet. The only person that I am optimistic for is Trey Burke. I think Derrick Favors and Enis Kanter can be pretty good but depends what on you're talking about as special. I don't see them being as that. It's not that I would trade them or get rid of them, just not special.

And if we think that we're going to lose to every team, then we can try against every team. So we just need to think we're going to lose. We will be wrong half the time or so. When I said that I figured it out, I was talking about the dilemma of trying hard to win and ruining your draft pick versus securing your draft pick. I hope you do know that I'm kidding. To be honest, I really do believe that the Lakers will get a higher pick than we will. Nothing we can do about it.

It's not a dilemma to me, just win!

I'm not that big on the draft. And even if the Jazz got a good pick, O'Connor doesn't have a strong record of picking the best guy.

I'm bigger on FA, or good trades. Maybe that's why I liked the signings of Okur and Boozer. Well I wasn't that high on Okur initially, but he played better than I thought.

Teams don't usually get great just through the draft, it takes good FA and trades too.

Plus, the average NBA career is 4.7 years, so odds are against a draft pick even turning out decent. Maybe find 1-2 guys through the draft, but after that, you have to get good existing players that have a proven track record of talent.

To be honest, I really do believe that the Lakers will get a higher pick than we will. Nothing we can do about it.

Thanks.

 

[MHSL82]

It's not a dilemma to me, just win!

I'm not that big on the draft. And even if the Jazz got a good pick, O'Connor doesn't have a strong record of picking the best guy.

I'm bigger on FA, or good trades. Maybe that's why I liked the signings of Okur and Boozer. Well I wasn't that high on Okur initially, but he played better than I thought.

Teams don't usually get great just through the draft, it takes good FA and trades too.

Plus, the average NBA career is 4.7 years, so odds are against a draft pick even turning out decent. Maybe find 1-2 guys through the draft, but after that, you have to get good existing players that have a proven track record of talent.



Thanks.

You sound like the person at the passport office who told me I didn't have to hurry to submit my papers because they don't always do it in order. I asked them if waiting would make my application go faster, they said no. So I asked why I would wait then? I said it nicely because I didn't want them spitting in my soup. I mean, losing my papers. Similarly, even if O'Conner drafts poorly or randomly, why not have the better pick? It's not limited not cost much more this season (I'm not talking about the contract).

 

[nuraman00]

You sound like the person at the passport office who told me I didn't have to hurry to submit my papers because they don't always do it in order. I asked them if waiting would make my application go faster, they said no. So I asked why I would wait then? I said it nicely because I didn't want them spitting in my soup. I mean, losing my papers. Similarly, even if O'Conner drafts poorly or randomly, why not have the better pick? It's not limited not cost much more this season (I'm not talking about the contract).

It's more about O'Connor needing to do a better job in FA and trades, than it is him seemingly relying just on the draft to build a contender.

He seems to only use one avenue of getting better.

And is the draft even the best way to get better? If the average career is 4.7 years, then there can be a high non success rate. Why not use the other tools to get better?

And it also raises the question as to whether he should be the GM. Has he been a top GM? Maybe the draft would be better in someone else's hands. If O'Connor drafts poorly or randomly for an extended period of time, why not get a better GM? Is there too much complacency in the front office? Is there enough accountability?

If the people handling your passport application are too slow, then the INS should either hire better workers, or find what's causing the slowness, and improve it.

 

[MHSL82]

It's more about O'Connor needing to do a better job in FA and trades, than it is him seemingly relying just on the draft to build a contender.

He seems to only use one avenue of getting better.

And is the draft even the best way to get better? If the average career is 4.7 years, then there can be a high non success rate. Why not use the other tools to get better?

And it also raises the question as to whether he should be the GM. Has he been a top GM? Maybe the draft would be better in someone else's hands. If O'Connor drafts poorly or randomly for an extended period of time, why not get a better GM? Is there too much complacency in the front office? Is there enough accountability?

If the people handling your passport application are too slow, then the INS should either hire better workers, or find what's causing the slowness, and improve it.

The Jazz got someone from the Spurs last year and then immediately started talking about trading Jefferson for Splitter (sp?). Does he do the drafting and FA work? O'Conner in name only?

 

[nuraman00]

The Jazz got someone from the Spurs last year and then immediately started talking about trading Jefferson for Splitter (sp?). Does he do the drafting and FA work? O'Conner in name only?

I always get confused about this about front offices.

I make a thread asking a similar question every year. About what a President Of Basketball Operations does, and what a GM does.

A good answer I got:

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It kind of varies from team to team and many times, the President of Basketball Operations is also the GM.

It's a hierarchy thing.

If the GM isn't the President of Operations, he reports to the President, obviously.

Often times, GM's who've been at a particular destination for a time tend to get both titles while somebody like Pritchard, who hasn't been around in Indiana very long (while Walsh has) isn't give that title.

The actual job description differs aren't much. They all do similar things - scout, deal with the roster day to day, financials, etc. There are exceptions to the rule, but namely, it's all the same stuff - especially when they're a President/GM. Somebody like Walsh deals with more team oriented things while Pritchard deals with the roster and that's about it.

+++++++++++++++++++++

O'Connor is listed as the GM.

The Jazz haven't had a President since Dennis Haslam in 2000.

So, O'Connor seems to be the top decision-maker.

Splitter isn't quite the caliber of player I would have had in mind, but who knows. Maybe he just needs more playing time to show his stuff, and he'd be better on the Jazz.

It wouldn't be a bad move, probably not a great one either, but at least he can play a little.

 

[MHSL82]

I always get confused about this about front offices.

I make a thread asking a similar question every year. About what a President Of Basketball Operations does, and what a GM does.

A good answer I got:

++++++++++++++++++

It kind of varies from team to team and many times, the President of Basketball Operations is also the GM.

It's a hierarchy thing.

If the GM isn't the President of Operations, he reports to the President, obviously.

Often times, GM's who've been at a particular destination for a time tend to get both titles while somebody like Pritchard, who hasn't been around in Indiana very long (while Walsh has) isn't give that title.

The actual job description differs aren't much. They all do similar things - scout, deal with the roster day to day, financials, etc. There are exceptions to the rule, but namely, it's all the same stuff - especially when they're a President/GM. Somebody like Walsh deals with more team oriented things while Pritchard deals with the roster and that's about it.

+++++++++++++++++++++

O'Connor is listed as the GM.

The Jazz haven't had a President since Dennis Haslam in 2000.

So, O'Connor seems to be the top decision-maker.

Splitter isn't quite the caliber of player I would have had in mind, but who knows. Maybe he just needs more playing time to show his stuff, and he'd be better on the Jazz.

It wouldn't be a bad move, probably not a great one either, but at least he can play a little.

Maybe the guys on the radio here have no clue, but all they've been referring to is the other guy. Wouldn't surprise me, one of the guys there was seriously pleading the Jazz to lose last night. He said develop but find a way to lose. I say it as a joke, but I think he is serious. He said earlier that he was mad about us beating OKC.

 

[MHSL82]

Talking about the radio, the guy there was trying to complement Fredette. He said he didn't know where he should be, a 3 or a 4. He said he doesn't shoot well enough to be a three and he isn't tall enough to be a 4. and for some reason he couldn't be a 1 or 2, given his skill set and the players around him. Everything else he said sounded like Tebow. As in, I'm sure that there is a way to maximize what you get from him, but that's only if you need him to play. If you can go get somebody else, go do it.

Don't get me started with Jimmer. I can barely stand a BYU player if he is a good one, if he is not and I get persistent people mentioning him here with the Jazz, then get out. They're not even bashful about it, they talk about him being a marketing tool. I repeat, a marketing tool. This is basketball team, not a marketing team. Give me a reason why he'll make our basketball team better or shut up. A MARKETING TOOL? Why do we as fans give a shit about marketing? It doesn't make our tickets cheaper, doesn't make our basketball team better, and the people that we benefit, have plenty of money. I seriously don't understand it. BYU, if you want somebody on the Jazz, recruit a player who can play without having the greenlight all the time despite field-goal percentage.

Save it, Nuraman, I don't need to be told he is not as bad I think he is. He went to BYU, so he is as bad as I think he is.

 

[nuraman00]

Maybe the guys on the radio here have no clue, but all they've been referring to is the other guy. Wouldn't surprise me, one of the guys there was seriously pleading the Jazz to lose last night. He said develop but find a way to lose. I say it as a joke, but I think he is serious. He said earlier that he was mad about us beating OKC.

Interesting.

Usually when I listen to there teams' radio shows, who are not good teams, they all say they still want to win games, and to not worry about the draft pick. This spans multiple teams across multiple seasons.

But the radio guys you're listening to, are wanting to lose games.

I'll also do more research to see who this other guy can be, in the organization, who appears to be a top decision-maker.

 

[nuraman00]

The Jazz got someone from the Spurs last year and then immediately started talking about trading Jefferson for Splitter (sp?). Does he do the drafting and FA work? O'Conner in name only?

So you're referring to a top front office basketball decision-maker?

 

[nuraman00]

To me, the draft just isn't the most reliable way to improve. Most players don't pan out, or don't turn into more than a rotation player. About 1/2 of a draft is either out of the league, or a 3rd string caliber player, within 4 years. Every year.

While I'm disappointed that Kanter and Burks and to some extent Favors aren't as good as some players picked after them, at the same time, even their caliber of players is a modest success, as I can at least say they are NBA players, so that's a small success in just that.

The population size of the NBA is small. Not many overall roster spots, and only the top 9 men or so even play much. It's not like the MLB or NFL which have huge rosters. Or it's not like the NHL, which needs a dedicated backup goalie, for example.

Therefore, during certain good free agent classes, I think you need to get some players that have a proven track record of playing at a pretty good level, and not just build through the draft.

There's teams every year that just try to build through the draft, and they're the ones that usually seem to get stuck as a non-lottery team the most, IMO.

 

[MHSL82]

Interesting.

Usually when I listen to there teams' radio shows, who are not good teams, they all say they still want to win games, and to not worry about the draft pick. This spans multiple teams across multiple seasons.

But the radio guys you're listening to, are wanting to lose games.

I'll also do more research to see who this other guy can be, in the organization, who appears to be a top decision-maker.

THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE UTAH JAZZ

Dennis Lindsey, GM. Randy Rigby, President. Radio guys no longer talk about O'Connor. However, like you, I always refer to him.

 

[nuraman00]

THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE UTAH JAZZ

Dennis Lindsey, GM. Randy Rigby, President. Radio guys no longer talk about O'Connor. However, like you, I always refer to him.

Thanks.

Found this message:

A Message From Utah Jazz President Randy Rigby | THE OFFICIAL SITE OF THE UTAH JAZZ

 

[nuraman00]

LOL!


++++++++++++++

Statement from Utah Jazz President Randy Rigby

SALT LAKE CITY (May 1, 2013) – The following is a statement from Utah Jazz President Randy Rigby:

Media reports of Kevin O’Connor’s departure are inaccurate and he is not stepping down. He is fully engaged in Jazz preparations for draft season. The working relationship between Kevin and Dennis Lindsey is unchanged as both individuals provide valuable expertise, knowledge and perspective toward building a championship-caliber team. Kevin will be a member of the Jazz family for a long time. No further comment is needed.

 

[nuraman00]

Sounds like Rigby has more say than O'Connor, now.

 

[nuraman00]

Utah Jazz president (Randy Rigby) just confirmed Trey Burke and Alec Burks will work with Hall of Fame point guard John Stockton this weekend (self.nba)

submitted 4 months ago by

 

[nuraman00]

Good interview:

Bits from Randy Rigby Interview, 1/8 | jazzfanatical