OT: Zimmerman Not Guilty

[Crimsoncrew]

I never said Zimmerman was a saint, but so many people are trying to paint trayvon as an innocent little kid who was murdered. An innocent little kid would have ran him if he was being followed by in his words "a creepy ass cracker", but now he turned confronted and attacked the guy who was following him. and the text messages and tweets I am talking about have been released. his twiter name is no limit ni#$% and one tweet says fuck the hater ill kill them all if I could, then they released that via text messages he was trying to obtain a gun, then there is his FB where he has posts of him smoking weed and there finally th fact that he had been in numerous fights and bragged about them and bragged about planning to be involved in more fights. all I am saying is that the kid was far from an innocent little angel. Like I said before had Zimmerman not got out his car then we wouldn't be talking about this but the same goes for trayvon had he gone home and not attacked Zimmerman we wouldn't be talking about this.

At the end of the day the prosection failed to prove that Zimmerman commited MURDER.

I thought only three people know what happened that night, and you're not one of them. You seem pretty convinced. There was evidence that Martin did try to get away from Zimmerman, you're apparently just picking and choosing what evidence to believe.

Whatever Martin said on his twitter account has no bearing whatsoever on the case.

 

[RedneckNiner]

Side note I have a concealed carry permit and I carry just hardly ever concealed. I carry a full size colt 1911 where its plainly visible. The reason being I never want to actually have to use it. The sight of it on my hip has been more than enough to persuade the criminal element to go pick on softer targets.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Here's the thing that kills me, and I haven't read much past the second page yet, so I apologize if it's been said:

To those who think Zimmerman was justified in defending himself, why wasn't Martin also justified in defending himself? After all, he was the one being pursued BY A MAN WITH A GUN. He almost certainly feared for his life, and rightly so. Apparently Zimmerman had the right to use lethal force because Martin used non-lethal force. That doesn't add up in my book.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Side note I have a concealed carry permit and I carry just hardly ever concealed. I carry a full size colt 1911 where its plainly visible. The reason being I never want to actually have to use it. The sight of it on my hip has been more than enough to persuade the criminal element to go pick on softer targets.

I respect your right to carry it and your responsible position on the burden it carries .... This is a healthy attitude

 

[NinerSickness]

If an armed person initiates a confrontation and kills the person they confront, the burden should be on that person to prove they were acting in self-defense, not on the state to prove they weren't.

There's a bit of a paradox in this sentence. If it's known that the armed person initiates a confrontation (I'm assuming you mean a physical confrontation? In other words: assault) then there would be nothing to "prove" in the first place.

The state's responsibility is to show evidence pertaining to who initiates confrontation and who was acting in self defense whether it's a bar fight or anything else. If there's a death involved, that person can't testify; so there would have to be evidence showing that a person acted in self-defense in order to avoid charges or be acquitted (like this case).

...Speaking of which: some states (Illinois I think?) have laws that say if you're in a bar and you're in a fight you get can be arrested regardless of whether you started the confrontation or not. That law doesn't seem jurisprudent IMO.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Like I said he shouldn't have gotten out his car. the kid broke zimmermans nose and he had cuts on the back of his head and the ME reported no injuries on trayvon except the gunshot so the evidence points to trayvon attacking him. at the end of the day we can battle back and forth forever, neither me or you were there and don't know 100% of what transpired. but we do know that there was reasonable doubt that Zimmerman felt his life was in danger therefore they couldn't convict him.

That's funny, cause you keep acting like you do. The truth is that you have no idea who initiated the physical altercation. None of us except Zimmerman does - which is why it's silly to make the state prove self defense in a case in which the victim is killed. But we do know, as you concede, that Martin would still be alive if Zimmerman hadn't followed him.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Zimmerman was innocent because the jury didn't let their emotion over rule the facts. The people that are going to riot don't know how to control their emotions and they let their emotions over rule facts.

Zimmerman was "not guilty." That's not the same thing as innocent.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Zimmerman made a mistake in judgement getting out of his car. However once the fight started and he was on his back getting his ass beat because he was stupid and possibly provoked it He shot the kid. He was found not guilty because of a) not enough evidence to convict b) everyone with half a brain knew they couldn't win the case which is why they had to bring in another prosecutor. The whole trial was a political show so that politicians could pretend they care to ensure they get votes. The prosecution was inept, ill prepared and bungled at every step. And in my community which is gated if I don't know you I don't care if you are white, black, hispanic, or Martian I'm going to watch, possibly follow and confront you to ask what you are doing here. I am sick and tired of everyone going a white guy shot a black kid when they don't give a flying fuck about the hundreds of black on black murders. Its all politics so they can keep their voting blocks segregated and locked into voting them back into office so they can make more money stealing from the taxpayer. I am not naive racism still exists, has always existed and will always exist because people are ignorant. But the media loves keeping it alive.. If a white kid had shot Zimmerman it would have been white kid shoots hispanic. The bottom line is Zimmerman was a tard, Trayvon should have just walked away. But sadly common sense was murdered long ago. Story here is simply neighborhood do gooder goes too far, other kid goes thug life and someone dies.

So are you suggesting that in these "hundereds of black on black murders" the suspects were let loose that night and not charged ? Because if that is not the case your point is lost on me......

 

[Crimsoncrew]

My guess would be for the same reason why people were outwardly pulling against him, because they didn't look at the entire case and rushed to a decision based on things like race and emotion. if you take those 2 things out of the equation you have a prosecution who failed to prove that Zimmerman committed MURDER 2. Had they tried to get him for a lesser charge they most likely would have convicted him but because of the public out cry of a poor little innocent black kid(which he wasn't) being shot and killed by a big bad white man(as he was first portrayed in the media even though he is of Hispanic descent) they overcharged him and came away empty handed.

The jury was instructed on manslaughter. That is a lesser charge.

You keep saying Martin wasn't innocent. Yet you also keep saying Zimmerman was. Zimmerman wasn't exactly a saint, either, this entire episode aside. If Martin wasn't "innocent" in your book, Zimmerman sure as shit isn't either.

 

[RoboticDreams]

I did not say dressed the same as , I said if it were readily apparent Martin was White would he have followed him ? You already showed your hand by saying that the past break ins were done by blacks therefore you would have followed Martin So I guess that makes this case about race in your eyes....

I'm saying there was a pattern. If you ignore that then you aren't a smart individual. I'm not going to let you define what is relevant and what is not. You can skew every detail but it doesn't matter, what's done is done. The man is innocent and was vindicated.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

I'm saying there was a pattern. If you ignore that then you aren't a smart individual. I'm not going to let you define what is relevant and what is not. You can skew every detail but it doesn't matter, what's done is done. The man is innocent and was vindicated.

So you are conceding that Race definitely was a factor in decisions made that night due to prior break ins happened to be done by Black male suspects..... I am not saying that it isn't understandable but for those that saying race wasn't a factor are not entirely telling the truth.

 

[NinerSickness]

The truth is that you have no idea who initiated the physical altercation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was an eye witness who testified. I didn't follow this too closely. Just bits & pieces.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Why do we have to be Trayvon defenders? I question why a guy follows another guy, calls the police, then decides to confront him for whatever reason and shoots him. I understand why he was found not guilty. Please stop using the word innocent. Do you really think Zimmerman is innocent of his role in the death of a person?

Again there's a difference between not guilty and innocent.

I asked the same question. Good post.

 

[erckm510]

Can someone explain to me what Zimmerman's injuries were. I read articles that the family doctor treated him and showed a broken nose, 2 black eyes, and lacerations on the back of his head but that the ER guys who showed up to the scene that day didn't even recommend him going to the ER. I can say that my doctor would tell me to go to the hospital if I showed up to his office with those injuries.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

[SIZE=-1](3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

^^^^ That's the florida statue on stand your ground that Zimmerman was using. Despite what alot of people think, the prosecution failed their burden of proof. Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful act. he had the right to be there. it is reasonable that a man with a split open head and broken nose reasonable thought great bodily harm was going to happen. He walks. It was the right decision.


[/SIZE]

Based on the law, yes. But I have a problem a law that allows an armed person to initiate a hostile confrontation - I am not saying that Zimmerman started the physical confrontation, but there is no doubt that by following Martin he directly caused the confrontation - with an unarmed person, kills that person, and can then claim self-defense and require the state to prove it. That is simply ridiculous.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

we dont know who attacked who. we dont. it's all speculative. that's why he walks. if the state could prove zimmerman the aggressor.. then he would be in jail. but getting out of your car is not illegal or aggresive. yelling at someone isnt either.

according to the stand your ground law.. zimmerman was in his rights.

Call me crazy, but yelling at a stranger at night is pretty damn aggressive in my book.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Can someone explain to me what Zimmerman's injuries were. I read articles that the family doctor treated him and showed a broken nose, 2 black eyes, and lacerations on the back of his head but that the ER guys who showed up to the scene that day didn't even recommend him going to the ER. I can say that my doctor would tell me to go to the hospital if I showed up to his office with those injuries.

No Dr Bodden on FoxNews even said the nose was not broken and in fact he received no medical attention for the bloody nose and scratches that night or anytime after...... He said they were nothing but superficial wounds.....
And mind you this is the guy on FoxNews the last bastion for White Men network.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It is funny that you don't hear anyone talking about how Trayvon should have just kept walking...

The saying "sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you..." seems to have been lost a decade or two ago.

Trayvon didn't like someone following him so he "kept it real" and tried to get MMA on Zimmerman and had his card punched.

Zimmerman is a pussy... and I don't like him... but based on all the circumstantial evidence (some of which was not allowed in the trial) I think there is a 90% chance Trayvon was the aggressor from a physical perspective.

Question: if Martin had killed Zimmerman, would all you folks have defended Martin as vigorously as you are defending Zimmerman?

 

[NinerSickness]

Can someone explain to me what Zimmerman's injuries were. I read articles that the family doctor treated him and showed a broken nose, 2 black eyes, and lacerations on the back of his head but that the ER guys who showed up to the scene that day didn't even recommend him going to the ER. I can say that my doctor would tell me to go to the hospital if I showed up to his office with those injuries.

 

[Ibangedlolojones]

Like I said a bloody nose and a couple of scratches on the head that required NO MEDICAL attention are somehow "life threatening"