Offseason thread, WR hunt, Cap Space now $4.768M not counting JJ and Jacobs

[Bemular]

As I have always maintained, they have improved. Funny thing about rookies. They get better.

LMAO!! talk about avoiding questions. So you are conceding then that Davis & Morgan have become better and that Smith has played a role in their improvement - Well I agree!

See how easy that was!

 

[imac_21]

No, I don't think that was it because when I told him that I got my argument from you (figuring he knew you) he said, "well then that Imac_21 guy is an assclown!" Well, as you can imagine that is when I opened up a can of whoop-ass on the guy and told him nobody talks that way about my bff!

Don't you worry little dude I've got your back! I know damn well your More Catches/More Yards argument is pure brilliance and bullet proof!!

I appreciate you having my back. It makes me feel really good inside. I would love to be able to reciprocate, but I have to know that you can defend your statements. I can't have your back if you're such a pushover and will cave as soon as someone presents a little evidence against you.

Could you tell us why you stated that Crabtree has not improved at all in the NFL?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

LMAO!! talk about avoiding questions. So you are conceding then that Davis & Morgan have become better and that Smith has played a role in their improvement - Well I agree!

See how easy that was!

I don't "concede" it. I have always believed it. Just as I believe that Crabtree has improved.

But I'm over you for tonight. Maybe when I wake up tomorrow you'll have grown a pair and actually addressed some questions to support your claims.

 

[Bemular]

Allow me to translate for you: "I can't actually support any of my claims, so I'll just keep spouting off."

Yeah, Bem, we know.

Do you really think your strength is translation? After what I have seen I think not - Like I have said repeatedly Imac_21's brilliance has changed my mind what part of that do you not understand? I'm not spouting off - this is serious shit!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Everything else?

So you are saying that statistics are the only way to measure all improvement for a WR and therefore it is your argument that Michael Crabtree has improved his chemistry, his reliability and is today a better tactical WR than he was in 2009 because the statistics say so.

Brilliant! - You win!

Gotta hand it to you, Bemular, you changed the goal posts yet again, and I missed this one.

The discussion was not about overall improvement, it was about improvement in the context of the QB. As such, statistical improvement is actually a very relevant measure. Perhaps the most relevant measure. After all, a WR doesn't rely on his QB to improve his hands, route-running, or awareness. A WR relies on his QB primarily to throw him the ball (as well as to make the right read, adjust protection schemes, get the ball out before pressure, etc). Dismissing statistical improvement in that context completely diverts from the relevant conversation, which is the extent to which Alex Smith allowed for or caused the improvement.

Congrats, Bem. That was quite clever. You're better at changing the subject than I realized. I'll have to watch you a bit more carefully in the future.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Do you really think your strength is translation? After what I have seen I think not - Like I have said repeatedly Imac_21's brilliance has changed my mind what part of that do you not understand? I'm not spouting off - this is serious shit!

I'm not sure it's a strength, but I'm quite certain I nailed this one.

I appreciate you adding lying to your bag of tricks. I'd call it a strength, but it turns out you're actually pretty bad at it.

 

[Bemular]

Gotta hand it to you, Bemular, you changed the goal posts yet again, and I missed this one.

The discussion was not about overall improvement, it was about improvement in the context of the QB. As such, statistical improvement is actually a very relevant measure. Perhaps the most relevant measure. After all, a WR doesn't rely on his QB to improve his hands, route-running, or awareness. A WR relies on his QB primarily to throw him the ball (as well as to make the right read, adjust protection schemes, get the ball out before pressure, etc). Dismissing statistical improvement in that context completely diverts from the relevant conversation, which is the extent to which Alex Smith allowed for or caused the improvement.

Congrats, Bem. That was quite clever. You're better at changing the subject than I realized. I'll have to watch you a bit more carefully in the future.

The discussion was not about overall improvement, it was about improvement in the context of the QB.

My conversation with Imac_21 at this time had nothing to do with Smith - Once again your translation skills have failed you. But I do like how you not only moved the goal posts, but hell fire you went and painted them red! Man when you get nervous you get weird! But, hey I like the new color and you my friend are going to be a lot of fun!

However, it is good to see you mention the word context - Now the question is, do you understand what context is and what it means? Many people do not and thus far you are one of those people. But congrats on at least mentioning it. That is a start.

Btw, I got what I came for. You have admitted that Alex Smith has indeed played a role in the development of Vernon Davis & Joshua Morgan and I would say both have improved noticeably with Alex Smith as their QB.

Therefore since Crabtree has failed to improve upon his rookie performance and at the same rate as these other receivers with the same QB we can assume with some degree of certainty that the problem for Crabtree's failed or stagnant improvement lies more to much more with Crabtree than with Alex Smith.

Thank You for participating in this scientific experiment - I look forward to experimenting on you in the future.

 

[Bemular]

I'm not sure it's a strength, but I'm quite certain I nailed this one.

I appreciate you adding lying to your bag of tricks. I'd call it a strength, but it turns out you're actually pretty bad at it.

Yeah, you nailed something - :hdn:

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Yeah, you nailed something - :hdn:

Was that your mother? Shit, I'm sorry, buddy. Should have known it from all the body hair.

 

[Bemular]

Was that your mother? Shit, I'm sorry, buddy. Should have known it from all the body hair.

Oh dude, don't be sorry, she said it was the best 2 inches & 2 seconds she ever had!

 

[Crimsoncrew]

My conversation with Imac_21 at this time had nothing to do with Smith - Once again your translation skills have failed you. But I do like how you not only moved the goal posts, but hell fire you went and painted them red! Man when you get nervous you get weird! But, hey I like the new color and you my friend are going to be a lot of fun!

Of course it did, silly. You said to me that Crabtree is the only receiver not to improve with Smith as his QB (I'm still waiting for more than two examples, btw, as we've had far more than two receivers on the team since 2005). We began discussing that, and Imac responded to one of your posts ON THAT TOPIC. You and Imac have always been discussing Crabtree in the context of Smith as his QB.

However, it is good to see you mention the word context - Now the question is, do you understand what context is and what it means? Many people do not and thus far you are one of those people. But congrats on at least mentioning it. That is a start.

There's the trademark. "You used the word context. You don't know what it means. I know what it means because I say so." A compelling argument. Very incisive.

Btw, I got what I came for. You have admitted that Alex Smith has indeed played a role in the development of Vernon Davis & Joshua Morgan and I would say both have improved noticeably with Alex Smith as their QB.

Again, of course they improved. I never denied their improvement. Again, they were rookies, and rather raw rookies. Davis especially, given his physical ability. Crabtree was much more polished than either guy, but he has also improved. He has improved statistically, but he has also reduced his drops from his rookie year, improved his route-running and awareness, and is a FAR better blocker. You have yet to provide any evidence that he has failed to improve. Again, this is your, "I said it so it must be true" argument. I'm sure it works with other seven-year-olds, but we have slightly higher standards here.

Therefore since Crabtree has failed to improve upon his rookie performance and at the same rate as these other receivers with the same QB we can assume with some degree of certainty that the problem for Crabtree's failed or stagnant improvement lies more to much more with Crabtree than with Alex Smith.

Again, Crabtree was a much better receiver coming out than the other two. As no other WR have moved beyond the level of pretty good #2 receiver with Smith at QB, and in fact no other WR has even produced at Crabtree's level, it is very possible Smith is a large part of the problem.

Thank You for participating in this scientific experiment - I look forward to experimenting on you in the future.

Sure thing, buddy. I'll be happy to point out your lack of evidence and your penchant for changing the hypothesis as the experiment progresses any time.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh dude, don't be sorry, she said it was the best 2 inches & 2 seconds she ever had!

I started to come up with - if I may say so myself - a very witty and cutting response to this. But this is just more evasion. You have nothing to contribute to this discussion or this board. Trading insults, while entertaining, doesn't further that. Worse, it demeans me to stoop to your level. Sorry I let you drag me down.

 

[Flyingiguana]

crabtree hasn't turned into a reliable target. he isn't a downfield threat, he always cuts his routes off 1-2 yards shy of the marker, very inconsistent with his hands especially on balls placed around his chest and can't gain seperation.

morgan isn't a great wr by any means, but he can actually gain seperation and i think he was due for a breakout year had he not gotten injured.

after antonio bryant, there's a huge dropoff when it comes to recieving talent. i've said this ever since last season when morgan got hurt, we needed more bodies and an actual wr capable of being a #1. we should have traded for lloyd and then brought in owens when it became apparent edwards was not gonna become healthy. crabtree would have been much more effective as the #3

 

[Bemular]

I started to come up with - if I may say so myself - a very witty and cutting response to this. But this is just more evasion. You have nothing to contribute to this discussion or this board. Trading insults, while entertaining, doesn't further that. Worse, it demeans me to stoop to your level. Sorry I let you drag me down.

Well, well! Look who is becoming a man - and right in front of our computers. I am pleased to know you won't be throwing around any insults in the future and I'll be happy to join you on this crusade.

 

[Flyingiguana]

i think the eagles are a great example of a team that wasted years with bad wr talent. their offense really started to click with owens, then it dropped off when he got flakey. then it picked up when kevin curtis was healthy for a full season and then picked up again when desean developed into a true #1 option

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Well, well! Look who is becoming a man - and right in front of our computers. I am pleased to know you won't be throwing around any insults in the future and I'll be happy to join you on this crusade.

You could take some lessons. Maybe you'd learn something if you managed to pry your head out of your ass.

On that note, I never said I wasn't going to throw around insults. Just that I'm not going to let that become the focus of discussion. I still think you're a chickenshit who can't muster an argument that's more convincing than "Because I say so." Nothing in this thread has changed my mind on that front.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i think the eagles are a great example of a team that wasted years with bad wr talent. their offense really started to click with owens, then it dropped off when he got flakey. then it picked up when kevin curtis was healthy for a full season and then picked up again when desean developed into a true #1 option

No one disagrees that we need to upgrade WR. The questions are whether Crabtree is viable as a #2 or #3 guy (you think he is not), and whether Smith can generate more in the passing game with less-than-spectacular talent at the WR position.

The Eagles had a dearth of talent at all the receiving positions, incidentally. Not just WR. At least we have Davis.

 

[Bemular]

You could take some lessons. Maybe you'd learn something if you managed to pry your head out of your ass.

On that note, I never said I wasn't going to throw around insults. Just that I'm not going to let that become the focus of discussion. I still think you're a chickenshit who can't muster an argument that's more convincing than "Because I say so." Nothing in this thread has changed my mind on that front.

Are you mad?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Are you mad?

Mad at you? Why would I be? You've met my expectations.

I might be a little sad/disappointed that you haven't learned to support your arguments better - or at all - in the months you've been away from the board. I'll pull through somehow, though.

 

[Flyingiguana]

No one disagrees that we need to upgrade WR. The questions are whether Crabtree is viable as a #2 or #3 guy (you think he is not), and whether Smith can generate more in the passing game with less-than-spectacular talent at the WR position.

The Eagles had a dearth of talent at all the receiving positions, incidentally. Not just WR. At least we have Davis.

whatever qb we have, we can't have crabtree being the #1 target. he'd be better off as a #3, but i'd much rather have someone with the capabilities of say brandon stokly who can actually find the soft spot in coverage and give his qb a good outlet to pick up a 1st down.

with vernon clearing out defensive backs, crabtree should be wide open all day and night.