Offseason thread, WR hunt, Cap Space now $4.768M not counting JJ and Jacobs

[imac_21]

Everything else?

So you are saying that statistics are the only way to measure all improvement for a WR and therefore it is your argument that Michael Crabtree has improved his chemistry, his reliability and is today a better tactical WR than he was in 2009 because the statistics say so.

Brilliant! - You win!

I thought you didn't want to have this conversation? Do you now, or are you just going be a dick and not actually respond again, like with Crimson?

Are you arguing that the QB is responsible for a WRs ability to run routes? You said Crabtree is the only WR not to have improved with Smith. I took that as you saying that Crabtree is bad and Smith has been able to lead to improvement in all other WRs with whom he has played (crimson has challenged that and you ran away and avoided the conversation).

Now you're saying that improvement in chemistry, reliability and tactical WR skills are due to the QB. Explain to us how it is the QBs job to make his WRs better route runners.

Then explain to me how, despite improvements in catches and yards in each of his 3 seasons that Michael Crabtree has not improved. Afterall, you did say he's the only WR to NOT have improved with Smith. Since Smith is really the only NFL QB with whom Crabtree has played, Crabtree must be no better now than he was when he stepped on the field for the first time against Houston 2 and a half seasons ago.

Or, you know, you can claim to not care about this discussion again and avoid answering any and all questions and challenges that don't fit your perfect little idea of why Smith is good and Crabtree is not.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I can't believe you're citing Bleacher Report.

Did Smith step up in the NFC Championship game? We probably could have used some production there.

I know, I know, Crabtree couldn't get open blah blah blah. But Davis only caught 3 balls. Two were huge plays, but it isn't as if Smith was lighting it up to him.


The one catch Crabtree had was a horribly thrown ball that he had to jump to catch and gave him no chance to get the first down. Smith threw some horrible balls that game.

I can't believe you're treating Smith like the greatest QB ever to justify your hatred of Crabtree.

Let's see about a list of QBs that could have replaced Smith. . .

Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Romo, Vick, Stafford, Manning, Rivers, Schaub, Roethlisberger. . . . and this doesn't include guys like Cutler and Freeman who are much more skilled QBs but have other flaws.

smith made enough plays to win that game against the giants. u do realize the wet conditions can hurt a qb, look at eli, he didn't exactly have a good game either. let's not compare eli and smith because u have umi offside half the game getting the jump on staley while justin smith is grabbed on the inside collar every play.

fact is crabtree was nowhere to be found when we needed plays. he gets yards during the season because of all the bodies that went down. if it wasn't for injuries crabtree would have been the #3 where he would have been much more effective, especially in double TE sets...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

did smith hold us back when we needed a lead late it games? our wr's rarely stepped up.

sure there would be a few qb's that can replace smith and do what he did. how many can go toe to toe with brees tho? smith also performed when we opened up the offense.

hard to know now, but the offense looked a lot better when morgan was the #1 option. the eagles and bucs game our offense was clicking when we were trying to score.

i really can't believe you're defending crabtree just to bash smith. i hate bringing up bleacher report, but i seen a ranking of right guards and snyder was 32. crabtree would be 32 i'm guessing if we ranked starting wr's. i should say #1 wr's

You are incapable of discussing either Smith or Crabtree in a reasonable fashion. All you've got is hyperbole.

Just one quick point before I leave this thread for a bit: You mention the offense looked better "when we had Morgan." I disagree. We had Morgan in the first three games - in fact, he was arguably our primary receiver - and the offense struggled. The games you cite (Philly and TB) are noteworthy because we had Morgan AND a mostly healthy Crabtree. It's amazing what having two competent receivers can do for an offense.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm going to throw out something crazy:

Bemular = MW49ers5

I don't like accusing people of having two handles, but there are just too many similarities.

 

[Bemular]

I thought you didn't want to have this conversation? Do you now, or are you just going be a dick and not actually respond again, like with Crimson?

Are you arguing that the QB is responsible for a WRs ability to run routes? You said Crabtree is the only WR not to have improved with Smith. I took that as you saying that Crabtree is bad and Smith has been able to lead to improvement in all other WRs with whom he has played (crimson has challenged that and you ran away and avoided the conversation).

Now you're saying that improvement in chemistry, reliability and tactical WR skills are due to the QB. Explain to us how it is the QBs job to make his WRs better route runners.

Then explain to me how, despite improvements in catches and yards in each of his 3 seasons that Michael Crabtree has not improved. Afterall, you did say he's the only WR to NOT have improved with Smith. Since Smith is really the only NFL QB with whom Crabtree has played, Crabtree must be no better now than he was when he stepped on the field for the first time against Houston 2 and a half seasons ago.

Or, you know, you can claim to not care about this discussion again and avoid answering any and all questions and challenges that don't fit your perfect little idea of why Smith is good and Crabtree is not.

You are saying that the statistics say Michael Crabtree is a better WR today than he was in 2009 - I find that argument to be brilliant and I can't imagine anyone being able to dispute it! So what is there to argue about? Well Done!

 

[Flyingiguana]

You are incapable of discussing either Smith or Crabtree in a reasonable fashion. All you've got is hyperbole.

Just one quick point before I leave this thread for a bit: You mention the offense looked better "when we had Morgan." I disagree. We had Morgan in the first three games - in fact, he was arguably our primary receiver - and the offense struggled. The games you cite (Philly and TB) are noteworthy because we had Morgan AND a mostly healthy Crabtree. It's amazing what having two competent receivers can do for an offense.

we would have won the super bowl if we had talent at wr. vernon cant carry the passing game. every offense in the playoffs has multiple guys a qb can depend on.

crabtree lined up against the other teams #2 would greatly help crabtree. hopefully next season we have a new #1 and either a new #2 or morgan gets resigned.

now in the event crabtree's struggles are because of his chronic foot problems. if he can be 100% next year and play well i will be the first to give him props. but i think we have damaged goods on our hands.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

we would have won the super bowl if we had talent at wr. vernon cant carry the passing game. every offense in the playoffs has multiple guys a qb can depend on.

crabtree lined up against the other teams #2 would greatly help crabtree. hopefully next season we have a new #1 and either a new #2 or morgan gets resigned.

now in the event crabtree's struggles are because of his chronic foot problems. if he can be 100% next year and play well i will be the first to give him props. but i think we have damaged goods on our hands.

Again, replace WR with QB and it's an equally accurate statement.

Crabtree would, ideally, be a #2 wide receiver. This year, he was our ONLY wide receiver. That's the primary problem, not Crabtree's lack of ability.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

You are saying that the statistics say Michael Crabtree is a better WR today than he was in 2009 - I find that argument to be brilliant and I can't imagine anyone being able to dispute it! So what is there to argue about? Well Done!

No, he's saying the statistics support the argument that Crabtree was a better receiver this year than in 2009.

Since you're now off of stats (it's interesting how your opinion of statistics shifts given the argument they support, btw), and you clearly believe Crabtree is worse now than in 2009, why don't you tell us why that is.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Again, replace WR with QB and it's an equally accurate statement. Crabtree would, ideally, be a #2 wide receiver. This year, he was our ONLY wide receiver. That's the primary problem, not Crabtree's lack of ability.

so who is smith suppose to throw to? we had no starting wr's on our roster and it showed in the playoffs. u can't replace wr with qb and make it equally accurate. we wouldn't have made the playoffs if smith didn't show he was at least capable of starting in the nfl.

guys like smith and flacco who are still developing are capable of getting to the playoffs and helping their teams win. they're not in the class of brees, rodgers or brady but they are capable of being quality starters. crabtree was in completely over his head as the #1 wr on this team.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

so who is smith suppose to throw to? we had no starting wr's on our roster and it showed in the playoffs. u can't replace wr with qb and make it equally accurate. we wouldn't have made the playoffs if smith didn't show he was at least capable of starting in the nfl.

guys like smith and flacco who are still developing are capable of getting to the playoffs and helping their teams win. they're not in the class of brees, rodgers or brady but they are capable of being quality starters. crabtree was in completely over his head as the #1 wr on this team.

Smith had one starting WR. He needed two or three.

No one has said Smith isn't capable of starting in the NFL. On the contrary, I have repeatedly said he is an average starting QB. You are the only person - well, perhaps Bemular too - claiming that someone isn't capable of starting in the NFL.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh, and I'd bet heavily that this team would have made the playoffs with Shaun Hill at QB. We might not have made it to 13-3, and we probably would have lost to NO in the playoffs, but let's not pretend that the fortunes of this team were resting on Alex Smith's arm.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Oh, and I'd bet heavily that this team would have made the playoffs with Shaun Hill at QB. We might not have made it to 13-3, and we probably would have lost to NO in the playoffs, but let's not pretend that the fortunes of this team were resting on Alex Smith's arm.

and shaun hill is capable of winning a playoff game like smith did? we would barely get into the playoffs, being in such a weak division would be the only reason we get in.

smith didn't light it up this year, hill wouldn't either. but hill wouldn't give us those 2nd half drives when we need them.

injuries can give a player a great opportunity to prove their skills. troy smith got his shot last year and failed. crabtree got his shot this year and failed. when smith was getting boo'd out of the stadium against the eagles up to that point he was failing. he picked up socks and played much better (couldn't get much worse, but the whole offense was in shambles).

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Oh, and I'd bet heavily that this team would have made the playoffs with Shaun Hill at QB. We might not have made it to 13-3, and we probably would have lost to NO in the playoffs, but let's not pretend that the fortunes of this team were resting on Alex Smith's arm.

and shaun hill is capable of winning a playoff game like smith did? we would barely get into the playoffs, being in such a weak division would be the only reason we get in.

smith didn't light it up this year, hill wouldn't either. but hill wouldn't give us those 2nd half drives when we need them.

injuries can give a player a great opportunity to prove their skills. troy smith got his shot last year and failed. crabtree got his shot this year and failed. when smith was getting boo'd out of the stadium against the eagles up to that point he was failing. he picked up socks and played much better (couldn't get much worse, but the whole offense was in shambles).

I said we probably would have lost to NO with Hill at QB. He's not as capable of putting together quick drives and I don't think there's any way he makes the game-winning throw.

I'm not saying Hill is better. I'm saying he's good enough playing it safe, checking down, and taking care of the football - with the occasional come-from-behind win thrown in - to have made the playoffs on last year's team. Of course a lot of that has to do with the division.

I wouldn't say Crabtree failed. You are putting almost complete stock in a single game in which Crabtree struggled. Starting with the Detroit game, Crabtree led the team in receiving in seven of eight straight games. During those games, we went 6-2 and locked up the division. Davis only broke 40 yards receiving in one of those games, and never led the team in receiving. Acting as if Crabtree played no part in our success this year is idiotic and just plain incorrect. Does he have lots of room to improve? Absolutely. Was he totally and utterly useless? Not even close.

 

[imac_21]

smith made enough plays to win that game against the giants. u do realize the wet conditions can hurt a qb, look at eli, he didn't exactly have a good game either. let's not compare eli and smith because u have umi offside half the game getting the jump on staley while justin smith is grabbed on the inside collar every play.

fact is crabtree was nowhere to be found when we needed plays. he gets yards during the season because of all the bodies that went down. if it wasn't for injuries crabtree would have been the #3 where he would have been much more effective, especially in double TE sets...

Look at all the excuses you're making. You sound like a 6 year old.

Can wet conditions hurt a WR too? Smith threw two good balls. It wasn't enough to win. If it was, we would have one. You're full of shit. Crimson has already addressed the ridiculous notion that Crabtree would have been a #3 in a previous thread.


Look at all the excuses you're making. You sound like a 6 year old.

Can wet conditions hurt a WR too? Smith threw two good balls. It wasn't enough to win. If it was, we would have one. You're full of shit. Crimson has already addressed the ridiculous notion that Crabtree would have been a #3 in a previous thread.

 

[imac_21]

You are saying that the statistics say Michael Crabtree is a better WR today than he was in 2009 - I find that argument to be brilliant and I can't imagine anyone being able to dispute it! So what is there to argue about? Well Done!

Perfect. You've done such a great job of illustrating that Crabtree hasn't improved since he entered the league. You stated he hadn't, then did absolutely nothing to back it up. Nothing.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Look at all the excuses you're making. You sound like a 6 year old.

Can wet conditions hurt a WR too? Smith threw two good balls. It wasn't enough to win. If it was, we would have one. You're full of shit. Crimson has already addressed the ridiculous notion that Crabtree would have been a #3 in a previous thread.


Look at all the excuses you're making. You sound like a 6 year old.

Can wet conditions hurt a WR too? Smith threw two good balls. It wasn't enough to win. If it was, we would have one. You're full of shit. Crimson has already addressed the ridiculous notion that Crabtree would have been a #3 in a previous thread.

so u mean to tell me crabtree is starting material in the nfl? what planet do u live on?

 

[imac_21]

so u mean to tell me crabtree is starting material in the nfl? what planet do u live on?

Not the one you do, where Alex Smith is an All Pro.

 

[numone9er]

I dont like him at all. From the recent Giant games that I've seen, he seems to get stuffed on short yardages a pretty good amount of the time even though it should be his strength. On top of that he is a dumbass, he's old, not a threat as a catcher, and has appeared to have slowed down quite a bit even though he was never all that good to begin with.

He's the kind of power back we need. He's solid in pass protection as well. He wouldn't be our big threat, but he's a definite upgrade over Dixon.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Not the one you do, where Alex Smith is an All Pro.

i never fucking said smith is an all pro.

crabtree had concerns coming out of college about his ability to seperate and his quickness in and out of his breaks. was smith the cause of that as well? because it seems like u want to pin crabtree's struggles on smith.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Dashon Goldson: Foolish Tag? | ProFootballFocus.com

Alongside Goldson in the San Francisco secondary, Donte Whitner was an undoubted success at strong safety in 2011 but the other safeties on the 49ers’ roster have proven in the past to not be capable of starting. Two other franchises benched and moved on from Madieu Williams and the 49ers would not really want to entertain the prospect of going back to him. As inconsistent as Goldson can be, Williams would be an unnecessary step back on the field for the financial saving of cutting ties with Goldson.

Outside of Williams the only other option would be Reggie Smith who came out of the University of Oklahoma as a halfway house between a safety and a corner and has struggled now for four years to find a home at either spot on the San Francisco defense. His only extended period as a starter in 2010 brought a slew of average games along with one awful game in coverage against Green Bay in Week 13. If the 49ers were to move on, clearly the replacement wouldn’t be found on their roster. If he was, then surely he would have seen at least some playing time in rotation with Goldson to ensure a seamless transition in 2012.

So the search would then advance to the draft and free agency. The 49ers in the past have not been averse to making a splash on safeties in the draft. They struck out on Taylor Mays, unfortunately for them, and with pressing needs on the offensive side with the need to upgrade at receiver and on the right side of the offensive line creating another need at free safety in the draft would have been unnecessary. Presuming they go offense early in the draft a mid- to low-round draft pick would be a very slow burn to replace Goldson.