Off Season Moves/News/Rumors/Discussion Thread

[tzill]

I doubt he burned any bridges (in my humble opinion). I think he probably held out for a 2 - 3 year contract for so long that he missed the Giants boat. Once the market told him what he was worth, it was too late in the game and the Giants already had a full OF.

Whatever the reason, good luck Cody. I sincerely hope you do well even though you play for the vile Red Sox. You are forever immoratalized in SF. Ssory Doc.

I guess that's what I'm not seeing. Melky, Pagan, Nate, Belt...and??? There's an open spot.

 

[tzill]

9/214...

Thats about 24M per.

Ouch.

We will see how that one looks in about 3 years. He will sink faster than Mo Vaughn... With an anvil tied to his neck.

This. Because of the lame DH rule, AL teams will always have an advantage over NL teams for fat sluggers.

 

[filosofy29]

I guess that's what I'm not seeing. Melky, Pagan, Nate, Belt...and??? There's an open spot.

I think they view Huff as an OF too as 1B is bursting at the seems. Huff, Belt, Pill and Posey (occasionally) will need playing time at 1B. Melky, Nate and Pagan are the only true OF's. I think Huff and Belt will each get at least 40 starts in the outfield. You grab another OF'er and 1B gets really scary.

1B/OF is almost synonymous for the Giants in my humble opinion.

 

[tzill]

I think they view Huff as an OF too as 1B is bursting at the seems. Huff, Belt, Pill and Posey (occasionally) will need playing time at 1B. Melky, Nate and Pagan are the only true OF's. I think Huff and Belt will each get at least 40 starts in the outfield. You grab another OF'er and 1B gets really scary.

1B/OF is almost synonymous for the Giants in my humble opinion.

I suppose with Belt and Huff, you have two "halves" of a fourth OF. Still seems light in the OF to me.

Here's what I see

SP: Tim, Cain, Bum, Song, Zeets (5)
RP: Weez, Romo, Lopez, Affeldt, Casilla, Runzler, Mota (7)
C: Buster, Chez3 (2)
IF: Franchez, Stamos, Panda, Fonty, Burriss, Pill (6)
OF: Melky, Pagan, Nate (3)
IF/OF: Huff, Belt (2)

Does that seem about right?

 

[tzill]

BTW, the Budget is now $128.53MM give or take a couple hundred K (depends on the pre-arb six of Buster, Bum, Runzler, Belt, Stamos, and Pill). I figured each for about 500K; the league minimum is 420K. The budget includes $13.6MM for RoRo....the gift that keeps on giving.

We have $58.95 committed to 2013. But, that's before an extension to Cain (figure about $17MM there). So put it at $76MM with 6 guys under contract (Zito, Tim, Cain, Lopez, Panda, Song); 7 arb eligible (Weez, Casilla, Romo, Nate, Fonty, Burriss, Posey); 6 pre-arb (Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill, Chez3); and 6 FA (Huff, Melky, Franchez, Affeldt, Pagan, Mota).

Wild stab: Huff -- bye bye. Weez re-ups for 2/19. Melky 2/17. Franchez -- bye bye. Jeremy -- adios. Pagan -- 2/13. Casilla 2/7. Romo 2/5. Nate 2/5. Fonty 1/1.5. Mota -- retires. Burriss 1/1. Posey 3/18. Chez3, Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill all on pre-arb (approx. 0.5).
Total: about $116.5 with 21 players under contract. 5 SP, 5 RP, 2 C, 6 IF (Belt becomes a full time 1b), 3 OF.

Brown makes the team. Hembree makes the team. $117.5. 2 open spots (RP and IF/OF). Surkamp gets long role. $118. One open spot. Jose Lopez? Kelly Johnson?

If Casilla or Romo is ready to close do you trade Weez for Kinsler?

 

[SFGRTB]

So the Tiger get Prince. What out in 2013 when they have Miggy-Prince-Martinez-Avila. Wow with Verlander and their 'Pen, they'll be tough to beat.

And good to see Tim locked up. Now it's Cain's turn (hopefully 4-5 years) then we start officially counting down to pitcher's and catchers (unless you are like me and have already started)

 

[SFGRTB]

BTW, the Budget is now $128.53MM give or take a couple hundred K (depends on the pre-arb six of Buster, Bum, Runzler, Belt, Stamos, and Pill). I figured each for about 500K; the league minimum is 420K. The budget includes $13.6MM for RoRo....the gift that keeps on giving.

We have $58.95 committed to 2013. But, that's before an extension to Cain (figure about $17MM there). So put it at $76MM with 6 guys under contract (Zito, Tim, Cain, Lopez, Panda, Song); 7 arb eligible (Weez, Casilla, Romo, Nate, Fonty, Burriss, Posey); 6 pre-arb (Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill, Chez3); and 6 FA (Huff, Melky, Franchez, Affeldt, Pagan, Mota).

Wild stab: Huff -- bye bye. Weez re-ups for 2/19. Melky 2/17. Franchez -- bye bye. Jeremy -- adios. Pagan -- 2/13. Casilla 2/7. Romo 2/5. Nate 2/5. Fonty 1/1.5. Mota -- retires. Burriss 1/1. Posey 3/18. Chez3, Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill all on pre-arb (approx. 0.5).
Total: about $116.5 with 21 players under contract. 5 SP, 5 RP, 2 C, 6 IF (Belt becomes a full time 1b), 3 OF.

Brown makes the team. Hembree makes the team. $117.5. 2 open spots (RP and IF/OF). Surkamp gets long role. $118. One open spot. Jose Lopez? Kelly Johnson?

If Casilla or Romo is ready to close do you trade Weez for Kinsler?

I see a one Josh Hamilton in that next FA class. $12 million left to spend, don't re sign Melky, about 8 million more, thats $20 million. Sign Josh to a 5/6 year deal.

Just a thought.

 

[filosofy29]

I suppose with Belt and Huff, you have two "halves" of a fourth OF. Still seems light in the OF to me.

Here's what I see

SP: Tim, Cain, Bum, Song, Zeets (5)
RP: Weez, Romo, Lopez, Affeldt, Casilla, Runzler, Mota (7)
C: Buster, Chez3 (2)
IF: Franchez, Stamos, Panda, Fonty, Burriss, Pill (6)
OF: Melky, Pagan, Nate (3)
IF/OF: Huff, Belt (2)

Does that seem about right?

Yup. Only possible addition OF'er I'd throw in is either Gregor Blanco (sp???) or one of the Yutes.

 

[filosofy29]

BTW, the Budget is now $128.53MM give or take a couple hundred K (depends on the pre-arb six of Buster, Bum, Runzler, Belt, Stamos, and Pill). I figured each for about 500K; the league minimum is 420K. The budget includes $13.6MM for RoRo....the gift that keeps on giving.

We have $58.95 committed to 2013. But, that's before an extension to Cain (figure about $17MM there). So put it at $76MM with 6 guys under contract (Zito, Tim, Cain, Lopez, Panda, Song); 7 arb eligible (Weez, Casilla, Romo, Nate, Fonty, Burriss, Posey); 6 pre-arb (Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill, Chez3); and 6 FA (Huff, Melky, Franchez, Affeldt, Pagan, Mota).

Wild stab: Huff -- bye bye. Yup. And fine by me. Good luck in the future Huffer and thanks for all you've done. Weez re-ups for 2/19. I wouldn't do this. I'm not keen on paying that much for a closer unless we're one of the big 5 spenders. Either use him in a trade or ask/hope him to take a hometown discount. Melky 2/17. Depends on how he does this year (obviously). Franchez -- bye bye. Agreed. See Huff. Jeremy -- adios. Agreed, see Huff. Pagan -- 2/13. Good by me. I think he's going to do well this year. Casilla 2/7. Romo 2/5. Nate 2/5. Fonty 1/1.5. I'm good with all of these.....but Fonty and Nate can take off it it means help in payroll for a better bat. Mota -- retires. Agreed, see Huff. Burriss 1/1. Posey 3/18. I like both of these as well. Chez3, Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill all on pre-arb (approx. 0.5).
Total: about $116.5 with 21 players under contract. 5 SP, 5 RP, 2 C, 6 IF (Belt becomes a full time 1b), 3 OF.

Brown makes the team. Hembree makes the team. $117.5. 2 open spots (RP and IF/OF). Surkamp gets long role. $118. One open spot. Jose Lopez? Kelly Johnson?

If Casilla or Romo is ready to close do you trade Weez for Kinsler? Even if Casilla or Romo isn't ready, I do that trade every day of the week.

Good post. Answers above in red.

 

[calsnowskier]

I suppose with Belt and Huff, you have two "halves" of a fourth OF. Still seems light in the OF to me.

Here's what I see

SP: Tim, Cain, Bum, Song, Zeets (5)
RP: Weez, Romo, Lopez, Affeldt, Casilla, Runzler, Mota (7)
C: Buster, Chez3 (2)
IF: Franchez, Stamos, Panda, Fonty, Burriss, Pill (6)
OF: Melky, Pagan, Nate (3)
IF/OF: Huff, Belt (2)

Does that seem about right?

I would say Runz and Mota are only guaranteed spots as far as they have squatters rights. Those two spots are definitely open for competition.

I would say about 60/40 Belt makes the club. If he does not, Blanco or Frankie Peggs takes the 4/5 OF spot.

 

[calsnowskier]

BTW, the Budget is now $128.53MM give or take a couple hundred K (depends on the pre-arb six of Buster, Bum, Runzler, Belt, Stamos, and Pill). I figured each for about 500K; the league minimum is 420K. The budget includes $13.6MM for RoRo....the gift that keeps on giving.

We have $58.95 committed to 2013. But, that's before an extension to Cain (figure about $17MM there). So put it at $76MM with 6 guys under contract (Zito, Tim, Cain, Lopez, Panda, Song); 7 arb eligible (Weez, Casilla, Romo, Nate, Fonty, Burriss, Posey); 6 pre-arb (Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill, Chez3); and 6 FA (Huff, Melky, Franchez, Affeldt, Pagan, Mota).

Wild stab: Huff -- bye bye. Weez re-ups for 2/19. Melky 2/17. Franchez -- bye bye. Jeremy -- adios. Pagan -- 2/13. Casilla 2/7. Romo 2/5. Nate 2/5. Fonty 1/1.5. Mota -- retires. Burriss 1/1. Posey 3/18. Chez3, Bum, Runz, Belt, Stamos, Pill all on pre-arb (approx. 0.5).
Total: about $116.5 with 21 players under contract. 5 SP, 5 RP, 2 C, 6 IF (Belt becomes a full time 1b), 3 OF.

Brown makes the team. Hembree makes the team. $117.5. 2 open spots (RP and IF/OF). Surkamp gets long role. $118. One open spot. Jose Lopez? Kelly Johnson?

If Casilla or Romo is ready to close do you trade Weez for Kinsler?

So you have Panik in SF by 13? That would be great, but a bit aggressive, if you ask me.

Edit:

Ah... Just saw your "one spot open" remark...

 

[tzill]

I see a one Josh Hamilton in that next FA class. $12 million left to spend, don't re sign Melky, about 8 million more, thats $20 million. Sign Josh to a 5/6 year deal.

Just a thought.

I'd pass. He'll be 32 when that contract kicks in, and potentially 37 when it ends. No more dead money. And besides, I LIKE Melky. Some AL squad will overpay and DH him towards the end.

 

[SFGRTB]

Brown the 8th best OF prospect by MLB.com could climb up to top 5 if he stays in the minors this year (and continues to have success)

Also Culberson and Panik ranked at 2B, 7th and 10th respectively. Interesting to see Culberson still high and Panik listed at 2B. After looking back at Culberson's numbers, he didn't have an awful year, in fact did well for being in AA. K's were fairly high and walks fairly low, but he improved him defense.

Still, I like this combo developing into a leadoff force:

Brown (R)
Panik (L)
Posey (R)
Sandoval (B)
Belt (L)

Outside chance Villalona develops into a solid power bat. Possibly see this lineup by 2014.

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/...20&content_id=26403738&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120120&content_id=26407614&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

[SF11704]

Ok - the Tiggers and the Prince .... just have to comment .... and thank God it wasn't us ... 9yr/214M? He's young enough to qualify for a 9yr contract but is he healthy enough to sustain these kind numbers for 9 years? One hell of a gamble by the Tiggers if you ask me. If he physically breaks down around year 6 they still have another 75M or so outstanding on the contract. I've never been a fan of LONG contracts (and 9yrs is really out there) ... it's moves like that that dramatically start changing the landscape of baseball management ... Albert 10Yr followed by Prince for 9Yr ....

 

[CameronFrye]

Ok - the Tiggers and the Prince .... just have to comment .... and thank God it wasn't us ... 9yr/214M? He's young enough to qualify for a 9yr contract but is he healthy enough to sustain these kind numbers for 9 years? One hell of a gamble by the Tiggers if you ask me. If he physically breaks down around year 6 they still have another 75M or so outstanding on the contract. I've never been a fan of LONG contracts (and 9yrs is really out there) ... it's moves like that that dramatically start changing the landscape of baseball management ... Albert 10Yr followed by Prince for 9Yr ....

I was the biggest Prince homer on these boards and even I am glad the Giants didn't pay that kind of money.

It amazes me how easily Bor-ass gets teams to bid against themselves. You can say that the Nationals and the Rangers were in on the Prince bidding, but it was obvious to anyone watching that he wasn't going to get that kind of scratch from the St-Rangers and the Nats just don't have that kind of payroll flexibility any longer. Washington has Worth under contract, Zimmerman is due a big fat raise soon, Morse will get his if he keeps hitting, and they still have Strassburg and Harper. Both of those guys stand a very good chance of breaking the bank in free agency long before Fielder's contract is to end.

So that leaves the Tigers all alone, bidding against themselves and pushing their payroll to places it does not belong.

But we also have to consider that the Tigers already have Miguel Cabrera at first base, which means that Fielder is going to be a full-time DH. He'll likely play first when Cabrera needs a day off. The idea of Cabrera moving to third is absurd. So having Fielder at DH means they will not have to worry about putting as much wear and tear on his round body as a real baseball team (read: a National League team) would have.

They definitely overpaid, but I don't think they'll feel the pain until year 7 at the very earliest, possibly year 8.

 

[SFGRTB]

I was the biggest Prince homer on these boards and even I am glad the Giants didn't pay that kind of money.

It amazes me how easily Bor-ass gets teams to bid against themselves. You can say that the Nationals and the Rangers were in on the Prince bidding, but it was obvious to anyone watching that he wasn't going to get that kind of scratch from the St-Rangers and the Nats just don't have that kind of payroll flexibility any longer. Washington has Worth under contract, Zimmerman is due a big fat raise soon, Morse will get his if he keeps hitting, and they still have Strassburg and Harper. Both of those guys stand a very good chance of breaking the bank in free agency long before Fielder's contract is to end.

So that leaves the Tigers all alone, bidding against themselves and pushing their payroll to places it does not belong.

But we also have to consider that the Tigers already have Miguel Cabrera at first base, which means that Fielder is going to be a full-time DH. He'll likely play first when Cabrera needs a day off. The idea of Cabrera moving to third is absurd. So having Fielder at DH means they will not have to worry about putting as much wear and tear on his round body as a real baseball team (read: a National League team) would have.

They definitely overpaid, but I don't think they'll feel the pain until year 7 at the very earliest, possibly year 8.

The thing is, moving Cabrera to third is one of their only options. When V-Mart returns in 2013, he should be the full-time DH (Avila catching), Cabrera to third and Prince at first. They are going to hit the ball, but it won't be pretty in the field.

 

[sfsportsfan]

Miggy said officially he'll be playing 3rd

 

[tzill]

I was the biggest Prince homer on these boards and even I am glad the Giants didn't pay that kind of money.

It amazes me how easily Bor-ass gets teams to bid against themselves. You can say that the Nationals and the Rangers were in on the Prince bidding, but it was obvious to anyone watching that he wasn't going to get that kind of scratch from the St-Rangers and the Nats just don't have that kind of payroll flexibility any longer. Washington has Worth under contract, Zimmerman is due a big fat raise soon, Morse will get his if he keeps hitting, and they still have Strassburg and Harper. Both of those guys stand a very good chance of breaking the bank in free agency long before Fielder's contract is to end.

So that leaves the Tigers all alone, bidding against themselves and pushing their payroll to places it does not belong.

But we also have to consider that the Tigers already have Miguel Cabrera at first base, which means that Fielder is going to be a full-time DH. He'll likely play first when Cabrera needs a day off. The idea of Cabrera moving to third is absurd. So having Fielder at DH means they will not have to worry about putting as much wear and tear on his round body as a real baseball team (read: a National League team) would have.

They definitely overpaid, but I don't think they'll feel the pain until year 7 at the very earliest, possibly year 8.

I had wondered what your take was going to be on this. I mostly agree, but then again I've always felt Tubagoo was due to break down much sooner than later...dude is just obese, and as someone who dropped from 200-180 (I'm 6-2) I can tell you that a vegetarian diet doesn't really help. Proteins aren't the problem; carbs are. And a vegetarian diet can be quite high in carbs (pasta, bread, sweets). Dude's a walking time bomb just like his dad. So, I didn't even want him on a 5 year deal, much less NINE. As for the tiggers, I suspect they will try Miggy at 3b -- don't know how that will work out. I think had VMart not had the season ending injury that Tubagoo would still be out there waiting for an offer. I think Cabrera and he will end up doing the 1b/DH shuffle. IMO, DHing is the worst thing for Tubagoo...he'll only get fatter.

 

[CameronFrye]

The thing is, moving Cabrera to third is one of their only options. When V-Mart returns in 2013, he should be the full-time DH (Avila catching), Cabrera to third and Prince at first. They are going to hit the ball, but it won't be pretty in the field.

No. Trading Victor Martinez is also an option.

Cabrera may say that he's willing to play third, but Jim Leyland will have none of that shizz. Cabrera at third would be as bad as Aubrey Huff at third.

In 2012, Fielder and Cabrera will likely alternate at 1B/DH or Cabrera will play first while Fielder is the DH.

In 2013, One of the three will have to go. My guess is that Victor Martinez will be the one to go.

 

[ColinCoby]

Prince to the Tiggers...wow

Glad he's out of the National League. The Brewers appear to be a team The Giants will not have to worry too much about next season.