Off Season Moves/News/Rumors/Discussion Thread

[ColinCoby]

Cal/MSG/SF: great points. Rep all around.

In a perfect world blah, blah, blah...We go into the season with a decent chance of making the playoffs/being in contention. What else can a fan ask for?

BTW: again, for what it's worth, ESPN has The Giants ranked as the 10th best team, 4th best in the NL. The team on paper is in the hunt; let's hope that's the reality come spring.

 

[ColinCoby]

A little comparison:

Coco Crisp .275 avg .314 OBP 27 2B 49 SB (531 AB)


Angel Pagan .262 avg .322 OBP 24 2B 32 SB (478 AB)



*Pagan made $3.5 million last year. Any idea what he'll make in arbitration?

 

[tzill]

Looks like Crisp re-signed with the A's (2 years for 14 million plus an option year).

Thats a fucking mistake contract...

 

[tzill]

A little comparison:

Coco Crisp .275 avg .314 OBP 27 2B 49 SB (531 AB)


Angel Pagan .262 avg .322 OBP 24 2B 32 SB (478 AB)



*Pagan made $3.5 million last year. Any idea what he'll make in arbitration?

$4.7MM is the estimate.

 

[the_broom]

Thats a fucking mistake contract...

Agreed...what was Beane thinking?

 

[CameronFrye]

Agreed...what was Beane thinking?

He's thinking that Crisp will make a nice trade chip at the deadline. What he failed to account for was the fact that $7 mil per with an option for a third year will decease his return.

Billy Beane may have had a book and a movie written about him, but I have always said and still maintain that he's a HORRIBLE general manager. Dude took what Sandy Alderson built - yes, Alderson built the early A's teams - and traded it all away for nothing.

 

[ColinCoby]

He's thinking that Crisp will make a nice trade chip at the deadline. What he failed to account for was the fact that $7 mil per with an option for a third year will decease his return.

Billy Beane may have had a book and a movie written about him, but I have always said and still maintain that he's a HORRIBLE general manager. Dude took what Sandy Alderson built - yes, Alderson built the early A's teams - and traded it all away for nothing.

I read somewhere that the Crisp signing gets the A's payroll above $40 million. Apparently that's the magic number to get to to avoid the wrath of Selig/large market teams sharing revenue with the low-budget teams.

In other words, Beane likely saved himself some headaches by overpaying for an average outfielder.

 

[mistgl]

He's thinking that Crisp will make a nice trade chip at the deadline. What he failed to account for was the fact that $7 mil per with an option for a third year will decease his return.

Billy Beane may have had a book and a movie written about him, but I have always said and still maintain that he's a HORRIBLE general manager. Dude took what Sandy Alderson built - yes, Alderson built the early A's teams - and traded it all away for nothing.

Crisp has a fairly expensive bonus written into his contract if he gets traded.

 

[calsnowskier]

Crisp has a fairly expensive bonus written into his contract if he gets traded.

Why would anyone WANT to play for the I's?

 

[CameronFrye]

I read somewhere that the Crisp signing gets the A's payroll above $40 million. Apparently that's the magic number to get to to avoid the wrath of Selig/large market teams sharing revenue with the low-budget teams.

In other words, Beane likely saved himself some headaches by overpaying for an average outfielder.

That makes sense. Facking cheapskates. They can afford to raise payroll. I read somewhere that the AAAA's actually took in almost $35 mil in revenue sharing last season. If they have a $40 mil payroll this season, then the profitable teams (SF being one) are paying the AAAA's players to play and ticket sales are only going toward operating expenses - meaning Wolfe and Co are pocketing a tidy little profit this season.

Eff them. Send 'em to Oklahoma City.

 

[ColinCoby]

That makes sense. Facking cheapskates. They can afford to raise payroll. I read somewhere that the AAAA's actually took in almost $35 mil in revenue sharing last season. If they have a $40 mil payroll this season, then the profitable teams (SF being one) are paying the AAAA's players to play and ticket sales are only going toward operating expenses - meaning Wolfe and Co are pocketing a tidy little profit this season.

Eff them. Send 'em to Oklahoma City.

Eff 'em indeed.

Found the article, written by Buster Olney. Here are some excerpts:

There is no hard salary floor established in the labor agreement, no specific minimum dollar amount that teams are required to spend. But there is an understanding between Major League Baseball and the players' association that the 30 teams will at least participate in the process and won't consistently work to field a bunch of minimum-wage players.

The Oakland Athletics signed Coco Crisp for $14 million during the next two seasons, and that may help the Athletics avoid getting slapped on the wrist by MLB and the union, which rendered that punishment a few years ago to the Florida Marlins.

The Athletics opened 2011 with a payroll of about $67 million, but through the free-agent departures of players like Josh Willingham and the trades of players like Mark Ellis, Oakland has dramatically slashed its payroll.

With the signing of Crisp, Oakland will have at least $30 million in payroll obligations, and with other moves, the Athletics figure to move closer to $40 million -- which, some executives believe, is the unofficial budget floor that MLB and the union would like to see from its teams.

 

[calsnowskier]

Eff 'em indeed.

Found the article, written by Buster Olney. Here are some excerpts:

There is no hard salary floor established in the labor agreement, no specific minimum dollar amount that teams are required to spend. But there is an understanding between Major League Baseball and the players' association that the 30 teams will at least participate in the process and won't consistently work to field a bunch of minimum-wage players.

The Oakland Athletics signed Coco Crisp for $14 million during the next two seasons, and that may help the Athletics avoid getting slapped on the wrist by MLB and the union, which rendered that punishment a few years ago to the Florida Marlins.

The Athletics opened 2011 with a payroll of about $67 million, but through the free-agent departures of players like Josh Willingham and the trades of players like Mark Ellis, Oakland has dramatically slashed its payroll.

With the signing of Crisp, Oakland will have at least $30 million in payroll obligations, and with other moves, the Athletics figure to move closer to $40 million -- which, some executives believe, is the unofficial budget floor that MLB and the union would like to see from its teams.

Assuming these are accurate numbers, I have a hard time believing that MLB will side with the I's in the SC issue. The G's have a 130M payroll and are fielding an elite-level competitive team. They are one of the leading marketing teams in all of sports (Panda, Giraffe, Franchise, Beard, etc).

The I's are a parasite sucking on the tit of the successful franchises in the game.

Does owning SC help the G's fund these endeavors? Sure. No question. But they are a net plus to the game as a whole. Outside of a book and movie, the I's add nothing to the league (except acting as the Leagues AAA affiliate).

 

[SF11704]

The A's haven't been competitive since 2006. Since then they have been between 10-24 games out when the season ended. Signing Crisp at 14M for two years really doesn't address that at all. With both Texas and the Halo's making some major moves that puts the A's at about 25 out (IMO). Revamping a team takes both time and funding and I don't believe the A's want to invest in either of those commodities. The Crisp move just puts them at the magic MLB number. If I had to venture a guess ..... the cost to upgrade this team to make them competitive in the AL West would never show a positive return for quite some time. Too much funding over a 2-3 year investment period and not enough return on the investment. Fan appreciation and support most likely doesn't equate to enough positive revenue for them.

 

[msgkings322]

The A's haven't been competitive since 2006. Since then they have been between 10-24 games out when the season ended. Signing Crisp at 14M for two years really doesn't address that at all. With both Texas and the Halo's making some major moves that puts the A's at about 25 out (IMO). Revamping a team takes both time and funding and I don't believe the A's want to invest in either of those commodities. The Crisp move just puts them at the magic MLB number. If I had to venture a guess ..... the cost to upgrade this team to make them competitive in the AL West would never show a positive return for quite some time. Too much funding over a 2-3 year investment period and not enough return on the investment. Fan appreciation and support most likely doesn't equate to enough positive revenue for them.

As Jonah Keri pointed out in that link I put in the other thread: Jonah Keri looks behind the curtain of the alleged woes of MLB's second-class franchises - Grantland

The A's are basically trying stink so bad they force MLB to force the Giants to let them move to SJ (like Montreal to Washington over the objections of Baltimore). The process of trying to be good with a crappy stadium and market like the Rays is just too damn hard.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Can the Giants buy the A's for a bag of balls and a couple nice bats, then give them all one-way bus tickets to San Antonio?

Would that be legal?

 

[calsnowskier]

Can the Giants buy the A's for a bag of balls and a couple nice bats, then give them all one-way bus tickets to San Antonio?

Would that be legal?

I wouldn't mind absorbing their farm system into ours...

The MLB club, not so much...

 

[filosofy29]

I wouldn't mind absorbing their farm system into ours...

The MLB club, not so much...

Aren't they the same thing?

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

The A's should be contracted. Any team that can't afford to keep young talent for 3 to 5 million per year shouldn't be allowed in MLB.

 

[CameronFrye]

The A's should be contracted. Any team that can't afford to keep young talent for 3 to 5 million per year shouldn't be allowed in MLB.

Let's make a distinction here: The AAAA's CAN afford to keep the talent around. They choose not to. The current line of "thinking" with Wolff and Beane is that if they plead poverty enough in the next few years, Selig will have no choice but to open up the San Jose market, which is exactly what Wolff wants.

Meanwhile, the team is sending out a $40 million payroll and profiting about the same amount every year. Wolff is having his cake AND getting to eat it too.

So please don't continue to spread the rumor that the AAAA's cannot afford to field a competitive team. Let everyone know that they no longer WANT to compete until they get what they want. I think they should never get it just for that reason.

 

[msgkings322]

Let's make a distinction here: The AAAA's CAN afford to keep the talent around. They choose not to. The current line of "thinking" with Wolff and Beane is that if they plead poverty enough in the next few years, Selig will have no choice but to open up the San Jose market, which is exactly what Wolff wants.

Meanwhile, the team is sending out a $40 million payroll and profiting about the same amount every year. Wolff is having his cake AND getting to eat it too.

So please don't continue to spread the rumor that the AAAA's cannot afford to field a competitive team. Let everyone know that they no longer WANT to compete until they get what they want. I think they should never get it just for that reason.

+1!