Off Season Moves/News/Rumors/Discussion Thread

[mistgl]

Brings up a discussion, if the Giants can't reach an extension before spring training (which I fully expect to happen, or else), do they trade him before the deadline and get value in return or do they go through the SportsHoopla of trying to retain him as a free agent?

Previous deals of this nature haven't worked out as well though (Using Sabathia, Lee, Santana and Peavy as examples). No player acquired in any of those deals has had anything close to the impact of the player they were traded for. But, do we risk losing Cain for nothing?

Hopefully it doesn't have to come to that, but if it does, would you move Cain at the deadline or hope to re-sign him in the offseason?

The Jurry is still out on LaPorta and Smoak. If they both suck next year then I think it's safe to say those trades were duds. The first two Lee trades were pitiful returns (Indians-Phillies, Phillies-Mariners), and kind of mind boggling considering his stuff. The Peavy trade was for high upside, young players, and hasn't worked out for either team so far. I don't remember the Santana package, so no coment XD

When it comes down to it, it's all about what the other team is willing to pay for their piece. We shelled out a prospect no one thought Beltran would fetch a few months before the deadline. Adams netted the Padres a possible 2 and 3 starter, both of whom are top 100 prospects.

 

[calsnowskier]

Actually, I would say the Pads made out like bandits in the Peavey trade. They were able to dump that contract off on the contract monster (CONTRACTS!!! Nomnomnomnom) in Chicago and he has hardly thrown since. The return was not mind numbing, but the addition by subtraction alone made it a GREAT trade for SD (think Morris/Davis).

MSG? Your thoughts?

 

[SFGRTB]

Actually, I would say the Pads made out like bandits in the Peavey trade. They were able to dump that contract off on the contract monster (CONTRACTS!!! Nomnomnomnom) in Chicago and he has hardly thrown since. The return was not mind numbing, but the addition by subtraction alone made it a GREAT trade for SD (think Morris/Davis).

MSG? Your thoughts?

Well, yes based on the way Peavy hasn't pitched these years has made it look better for the Pads, but the return they got was subpar.

BTW ChiTown contract monster LOL!

 

[msgkings322]

Actually, I would say the Pads made out like bandits in the Peavey trade. They were able to dump that contract off on the contract monster (CONTRACTS!!! Nomnomnomnom) in Chicago and he has hardly thrown since. The return was not mind numbing, but the addition by subtraction alone made it a GREAT trade for SD (think Morris/Davis).

MSG? Your thoughts?

It's even worse. The Sox don't just eat others' awful contracts (Rios, Peavy), they cook up their own too (Dunn)!

But they finally realized that they're fucked so they are officially rebuilding. Traded their closer for a pitching prospect, and today Quentin for 2 more. They are looking to be good again in 2014 when Rios is off the books, and Dunn is on the last year of his horrible deal and they can dump him. In their defense there was no way to predict Dunn's epic suckitude. I liked the signing. Nobody knows nuthin'.

I suspect they'll dump Konerko and Floyd at the deadline this year. Maybe the Giants will pick up Konerko, depending on what Huff and Belt are up to.

 

[sfsportsfan]

man, why does it seem no one thinks Dunn can bounce back? lol. maybe hes a PTMFB type and needs to be in the field in order to hit?

 

[msgkings322]

man, why does it seem no one thinks Dunn can bounce back? lol. maybe hes a PTMFB type and needs to be in the field in order to hit?

Maybe. I think he'll have to improve this year, only because he literally couldn't hit any worse. He says he wasn't in shape blah blah blah (just like Huff...whatev).

But you kept waiting for him to do so at least in the second half of the year and it just never happened. Maybe he had to get used to new pitchers too.

But even if he rebounds the Sox aren't really trying to do anything next year.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

What does everyone think of the Quentin deal? Could the Giants have used him?

 

[CameronFrye]

What does everyone think of the Quentin deal? Could the Giants have used him?

Absolutely the Giants could have used Quentin. He's much better than either of the two scrub OFs the Giants got via trade this past winter.

But the problem with the question is that the Giants could not have landed Quentin because they didn't have the pitching prospects that Sandy Eggo had in order to facilitate the trade. And no, Jonathan Sanchez was not going to be part of any deal for Quentin. The White Sux are slashing payroll. Since Sanchez and Quentin are making essentially the same amount of money, there would have been no reason for the Sux to have made that deal. Since the White Sux are looking for arms, SF was eliminated before the bidding began. The Giants have zero arms in the minors that can fetch a major league player in return.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

The two pitchers the Padres gave up Simon Castro & Pedro Hernandez aren't even in their top 30 in terms of prospects. Castro was awful last season. Hernandez is a soft throwing lefty. To me the deal was nothing more than a salary dump. If the Padres don't resign him or trade him at the deadline they'll get a comp draft pick.

I'm surprised the Giants couldn't do any better.

 

[tzill]

Absolutely the Giants could have used Quentin. He's much better than either of the two scrub OFs the Giants got via trade this past winter.

But the problem with the question is that the Giants could not have landed Quentin because they didn't have the pitching prospects that Sandy Eggo had in order to facilitate the trade. And no, Jonathan Sanchez was not going to be part of any deal for Quentin. The White Sux are slashing payroll. Since Sanchez and Quentin are making essentially the same amount of money, there would have been no reason for the Sux to have made that deal. Since the White Sux are looking for arms, SF was eliminated before the bidding began. The Giants have zero arms in the minors that can fetch a major league player in return.

Agree with 98% here Cam (as usual). However, neither Cabrera nor Pagan are "scrubs." That would imply replacement level or less.

Cabrera projects out at 275/325/410 with 12 bombs, 70 RBI and 12 SB.
Pagan projects to 280/335/400 with 10 bombs, 60 RBI, 30 SB, and 80 runs.

That's not "scrub."

 

[Stokes1931]

Agree with 98% here Cam (as usual). However, neither Cabrera nor Pagan are "scrubs." That would imply replacement level or less.

Cabrera projects out at 275/325/410 with 12 bombs, 70 RBI and 12 SB.
Pagan projects to 280/335/400 with 10 bombs, 60 RBI, 30 SB, and 80 runs.

That's not "scrub."

One man's scrub is another man's HOF'er. :ballchain:

 

[CameronFrye]

Agree with 98% here Cam (as usual). However, neither Cabrera nor Pagan are "scrubs." That would imply replacement level or less.

Cabrera projects out at 275/325/410 with 12 bombs, 70 RBI and 12 SB.
Pagan projects to 280/335/400 with 10 bombs, 60 RBI, 30 SB, and 80 runs.

That's not "scrub."

OK. While they may not be scrubs, neither is deserving of anything more than than a 4th OF spot. Neither should be starting in the Majors, and at least one of them will. If (when) Huff gets hurt or proves ineffective, there's a good chance that BOTH will be starting. That's not good.

Also, neither one is a good defensive CF - and since Nate will be playing RF and Huff will get most of his time in left, that leaves Pagan and Melky to battle for the CF spot. With a weak glove in left and a weak glove in CF, the Giants pitchers had all better learn to throw grounders.

Bottom line is that I am not a fan of slappy hitters like Pagan and Melky in the OF - especially when they are not studs with the glove (and neither is). If either one brought back memories of Darren Lewis or Brett Butler, I would be more than happy to live with their limited bats. But both will remind us more of Marvin Benard than either of the two I mentioned.

 

[Stokes1931]

OK. While they may not be scrubs, neither is deserving of anything more than than a 4th OF spot. Neither should be starting in the Majors, and at least one of them will. If (when) Huff gets hurt or proves ineffective, there's a good chance that BOTH will be starting. That's not good.

Also, neither one is a good defensive CF - and since Nate will be playing RF and Huff will get most of his time in left, that leaves Pagan and Melky to battle for the CF spot. With a weak glove in left and a weak glove in CF, the Giants pitchers had all better learn to throw grounders.

Bottom line is that I am not a fan of slappy hitters like Pagan and Melky in the OF - especially when they are not studs with the glove (and neither is). If either one brought back memories of Darren Lewis or Brett Butler, I would be more than happy to live with their limited bats. But both will remind us more of Marvin Benard than either of the two I mentioned.

Now you've done it! You're scaring the kids again, Cam.

 

[CameronFrye]

Now you've done it! You're scaring the kids again, Cam.

REP!!!

 

[ColinCoby]

From ESPN in (for what it's worth):

In my opinion, no team has had a worse offseason than the Giants. With a team that just missed the playoffs and its weakest positions being almost custom-fit for some of the biggest players available in the market, San Francisco passed on Jose Reyes with barely a raised eyebrow and showed almost no interest in bringing back Carlos Beltran or pursuing Jimmy Rollins. Sure, Melky Cabrera is a better hitter than Aaron Rowand, but he's a defensive liability in center and has nowhere near the potential with the bat that Brandon Belt would have in left.



The Giants also have made little progress on the Matt Cain extension, though I guess they did have time to put in a bid for Willie Bloomquist. With most of the players that would really help the Giants' offense gone, don't expect much of significance to happen in January.

 

[msgkings322]

From ESPN in (for what it's worth):

In my opinion, no team has had a worse offseason than the Giants. With a team that just missed the playoffs and its weakest positions being almost custom-fit for some of the biggest players available in the market, San Francisco passed on Jose Reyes with barely a raised eyebrow and showed almost no interest in bringing back Carlos Beltran or pursuing Jimmy Rollins. Sure, Melky Cabrera is a better hitter than Aaron Rowand, but he's a defensive liability in center and has nowhere near the potential with the bat that Brandon Belt would have in left.



The Giants also have made little progress on the Matt Cain extension, though I guess they did have time to put in a bid for Willie Bloomquist. With most of the players that would really help the Giants' offense gone, don't expect much of significance to happen in January.

For what this reply is worth, clearly the brass is thinking that Posey (and Franchez) is the big pickup of the offseason. They are counting on a healthy team that looks a lot like what they started 2011 with. We had no problem with the lineup at the start of 2011 after winning it all in 2010, and they are basically playing it that way. They are assuming Huff improves some, or Belt replaces him. They are assuming their hitters stay healthy, and they are assuming they can get Torres 2010 or close to it from Pagan/Melky.

We didn't feel that good about the team going into 2010, and we felt great about them into 2011. So if we don't feel awesome because they didn't get a big name, not sure that correlates to a bad season. Only a very small number of major spending teams can be assumed to make the playoffs, and as always we aren't one of them. I think we have about a 50/50 shot.

Nobody. Knows. Nuthin'. Especially ESPN Insider.

 

[SFGRTB]

From ESPN in (for what it's worth):

In my opinion, no team has had a worse offseason than the Giants. With a team that just missed the playoffs and its weakest positions being almost custom-fit for some of the biggest players available in the market, San Francisco passed on Jose Reyes with barely a raised eyebrow and showed almost no interest in bringing back Carlos Beltran or pursuing Jimmy Rollins. Sure, Melky Cabrera is a better hitter than Aaron Rowand, but he's a defensive liability in center and has nowhere near the potential with the bat that Brandon Belt would have in left.



The Giants also have made little progress on the Matt Cain extension, though I guess they did have time to put in a bid for Willie Bloomquist. With most of the players that would really help the Giants' offense gone, don't expect much of significance to happen in January.

It would be a bad offseason for the Yankees/RedSox but with a team under payroll constraints they did a good job in getting Pagan (I do agree with Belt being more productive in LF than Melky with Pagan in CF). And yes assuming Posey is healthy and Sanchez can play 120 games and Belt/Pill/Huff don't flop, the offense could be decent.

It's been a disappointing offseason but nothing much more could be done.

 

[jingo]

Looks like Crisp re-signed with the A's (2 years for 14 million plus an option year).

 

[calsnowskier]

Looks like Crisp re-signed with the A's (2 years for 14 million plus an option year).

7 per???

Another good non-signing by Sabes. We had talked here about getting him on a 2/12, and we thought that was a bit of an over-pay. NOT having him for 2/14 is WAY better than HAVING him at 2/14.

 

[calsnowskier]

From ESPN in (for what it's worth):

In my opinion, no team has had a worse offseason than the Giants. With a team that just missed the playoffs and its weakest positions being almost custom-fit for some of the biggest players available in the market, San Francisco passed on Jose Reyes with barely a raised eyebrow and showed almost no interest in bringing back Carlos Beltran or pursuing Jimmy Rollins. Sure, Melky Cabrera is a better hitter than Aaron Rowand, but he's a defensive liability in center and has nowhere near the potential with the bat that Brandon Belt would have in left.



The Giants also have made little progress on the Matt Cain extension, though I guess they did have time to put in a bid for Willie Bloomquist. With most of the players that would really help the Giants' offense gone, don't expect much of significance to happen in January.

I just do not get anyone who looks at all the variables the Giants faced this off-season and says they did badly. I am OK with anyone saying they did not hit any home-runs, but I think they did fine, given the constraints.

If this team faced NORMAL injuries last year, they would have been in the playoffs.

There WAS an issue last year of the team taking a month off once Diva-tran showed up, assuming that he WAS the offense, but that was from a team that was battered pretty brutally all season with the injuries (Posey, Panda, Torres, Franchez, Nate, Belt, Diva-tran, Durty, Wilson, Romo...). While that is not acceptable, it was an extreme situation that you really cannot plan around.

Overall, I think the Giants did just fine this off-season. This opinion ASSUMES an extension for Cain and an eventual extension for Timmeh. Signing Reyes would have, 100%, prevented one of (if not both) of those outcomes.