'No one wants to play with Kobe'

[Black Adam]

Bullshit. The rings card ALWAYS applies. It's how the great players separate themselves from one another. Ask those guys you listed how important winning a ring is and what individual accomplishments they'd give up just to get one ring.

http://youtu.be/xhpqP-BaME0


just my assessment of this so far...

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The "rings" card doesn't apply everywhere. Don't be a frontrunner. How many rings does Charles Barkley have? Karl Malone? Patrick Ewing? George Gervin? How about even Kevin Durant? Zach Randolph? (Guys that have worked their asses off to get where they currently are.)

Just because some teams aren't tanking for the next "susperstar" to fall into their laps like the Lakers and Sixers are doesn't mean they are failing at what they are trying do do.

So in your opinion, teams who do extremely well during the regular season and then get eliminated in the first round are successful teams? Now I know you're a true Pacers fan.

 

[trojanfight]

Uhhh, Kobe has 5 championships. If you are talking recently then every year has been a waste for the Mavs since their championship season until this one. I know no amount of reason will change your mind though because you're too deeply entrenched in this idea to admit you are wrong. Lakers could have gotten Rondo if they had some more assets, but the Lakers gambled most of their assets away on the Dwight/Nash Lakers team a few years back. What does Kobe's contract have to do with the Mavs acquiring Rondo? I don't know.

Maybe you're just spoiled?

its not just about championships. since mavs won championship what is their worst season? without looking it up im pretty positive they made playoffs every year. Id counter you and say lakers put much of their "assets" into kobes contract. if dirk had kobe contract the last few years there likely never is montae ellis or parsons on the team. bottom line one team has improved and one team is being poorly run

 

[HurricaneDij39]

So in your opinion, teams who do extremely well during the regular season and then get eliminated in the first round are successful teams? Now I know you're a true Pacers fan.

The last time the Pacers lost in the first round was 2011. How 'bout the Lakers? 2013?

Also, you were begging for Howard to join your team on CBS back in 2012. Don't pretend I've forgotten...

 

[OutlawImmortal]

The last time the Pacers lost in the first round was 2011. How 'bout the Lakers? 2013?

Also, you were begging for Howard to join your team on CBS back in 2012. Don't pretend I've forgotten...

Apparently you have because I wanted to keep Bynum, I argued with QID every day over it. I was also like 16 years old at the time so

 

[Inimical]

Apparently you have because I wanted to keep Bynum, I argued with QID every day over it. I was also like 16 years old at the time so

i REMEMBER QID NOW LOL

 

[HurricaneDij39]

i REMEMBER QID NOW LOL

A whore...

 

[OutlawImmortal]

its not just about championships. since mavs won championship what is their worst season? without looking it up im pretty positive they made playoffs every year. Id counter you and say lakers put much of their "assets" into kobes contract. if dirk had kobe contract the last few years there likely never is montae ellis or parsons on the team. bottom line one team has improved and one team is being poorly run

You're pretty positive and you're wrong. Mavs got swept by the Thunder, then missed the playoffs completely in the 2012-2013 season.

So what you're saying is that Kobe should have taken less so that the Lakers could trade Parsons or Ellis for Rondo? I'm lost. In case you are unaware, assets are young players, draft picks and to some extent, expiring contracts, not B-level free agents like Parsons who are overpaid. Do you seriously not know what trade assets are?

 

[trojanfight]

You're pretty positive and you're wrong. Mavs got swept by the Thunder, then missed the playoffs completely in the 2012-2013 season.

So what you're saying is that Kobe should have taken less so that the Lakers could trade Parsons or Ellis for Rondo? I'm lost. In case you are unaware, assets are young players, draft picks and to some extent, expiring contracts, not B-level free agents like Parsons who are overpaid. Do you seriously not know what trade assets are?

im saying kobe should have took less like dirk did to create a "ideal situation". prior to this trade being announced rondo said he would consider resigning in dallas and Houston. half to think some of that is them being a solid team before he joined. lakers have been trading picks for years. not just with nash deal. atleast boston got something for rondo not like the lakers with Dwight...writing was on the wall Dwight wasn't coming back...should have traded for something.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

its not just about championships. since mavs won championship what is their worst season? without looking it up im pretty positive they made playoffs every year. Id counter you and say lakers put much of their "assets" into kobes contract. if dirk had kobe contract the last few years there likely never is montae ellis or parsons on the team. bottom line one team has improved and one team is being poorly run

Bro, this is the Lakers first year witg Kobe's new contract. The Mavs had 4 years, since there last championship, to get the players they have. Can you give the Lakers time to prove themselves too?

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

im saying kobe should have took less like dirk did to create a "ideal situation". prior to this trade being announced rondo said he would consider resigning in dallas and Houston. half to think some of that is them being a solid team before he joined. lakers have been trading picks for years. not just with nash deal. atleast boston got something for rondo not like the lakers with Dwight...writing was on the wall Dwight wasn't coming back...should have traded for something.

If your beef is that the Lakers have been making bad decisions over the years, then that should be the focus, but seem to make it seem like Kobe's contract just fucked everything up.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

im saying kobe should have took less like dirk did to create a "ideal situation". prior to this trade being announced rondo said he would consider resigning in dallas and Houston. half to think some of that is them being a solid team before he joined. lakers have been trading picks for years. not just with nash deal. atleast boston got something for rondo not like the lakers with Dwight...writing was on the wall Dwight wasn't coming back...should have traded for something.

Rondo has yet to say that himself, it's just an unnamed source that says "Dallas and Houston intrigues him" and that equals "open to signing an extension" I guess. If I were Rondo, I would wait to see how it plays out in Dallas before making a decision. I think if Rondo were truly that eager to sign an extension then teams would have been willing to give more than a 1st rounder in the 20's and Brendan Wright.

The Lakers clearly weren't willing to pay full price, or even the price that Dallas ended up paying for Rondo. The Lakers were willing to do a deal but only a deal that involved Green. I'm interested in seeing if another trade opportunity will pop up down the line, I think J Hill has become a little more expendable due to Ed Davis, and J Hill's value is at an all-time high right now. Who knows, maybe down the line you will be thanking the Lakers for not going all-in on the Rondo trade. Remember, the Suns backcourt is getting more crowded with each loss they suffer. This is a PG heavy league, no reason to get rid of what little assets we have now to take a gamble on a PG that probably won't get us over the hump right away in the West.

Lakers are in great shape next year. Kobe will have 1 year left on his contract, the Lakers could possibly end up with a top-5 pick as well as a pick in the 20's, we'll get Randle back to develop, we'll have a ton of cap space and more trade chips to play with. The Lakers went from Kobe and Shaq to Kobe and Pau to Kobe and Dwight and you say that the Mavs are a better organization?

 

[trojanfight]

Bro, this is the Lakers first year witg Kobe's new contract. The Mavs had 4 years, since there last championship, to get the players they have. Can you give the Lakers time to prove themselves too?

It's not really the first year of Kobe making this kind of money. He's made 23 mil of more since 2008-2009 season. Topping out last season he made 30 mil per. So that makes it worse in my book. It's not like he's been underpaid for several years. If this was 28 year Kobe with several 40-50 point games on the season And doesn't need much help to win is say sure pay him whatever. But he's not in his prime anymore. He can't control 4th quarters vs quality teams anymore. The only real comparison with age and contract is joe Johnson and that's also viewed a bad contract. It's been said time and time agan nobody was going to pay him more than 12 mil or so anywhere. So it's a poor decision to pay him double that. Next time I go for a burger should I pay 50 dollars for a burger that retails 1.99 for an act of appreciation?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

We could have signed Ariza with that money Lakers+USC! He would have gotten us at least 2 more wins, Trojanfight is right!

 

[lakersrule]

It's not really the first year of Kobe making this kind of money. He's made 23 mil of more since 2008-2009 season. Topping out last season he made 30 mil per. So that makes it worse in my book. It's not like he's been underpaid for several years. If this was 28 year Kobe with several 40-50 point games on the season And doesn't need much help to win is say sure pay him whatever. But he's not in his prime anymore. He can't control 4th quarters vs quality teams anymore. The only real comparison with age and contract is joe Johnson and that's also viewed a bad contract. It's been said time and time agan nobody was going to pay him more than 12 mil or so anywhere. So it's a poor decision to pay him double that. Next time I go for a burger should I pay 50 dollars for a burger that retails 1.99 for an act of appreciation?

That's always been pure speculation though. Nobody can be certain what his value would have been on the open market because he didn't get there. But, yes, obviously if he took less money there would have been more to spend on others.

Management tried to put Kobe and the Lakers in position to compete late in Kobe's career. They made widely applauded moves bringing in Dwight and Nash. Injuries and bad coaching hires messed that up. It has unfortunately put the Lakers in this current position.

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

It's not really the first year of Kobe making this kind of money. He's made 23 mil of more since 2008-2009 season. Topping out last season he made 30 mil per. So that makes it worse in my book. It's not like he's been underpaid for several years. If this was 28 year Kobe with several 40-50 point games on the season And doesn't need much help to win is say sure pay him whatever. But he's not in his prime anymore. He can't control 4th quarters vs quality teams anymore. The only real comparison with age and contract is joe Johnson and that's also viewed a bad contract. It's been said time and time agan nobody was going to pay him more than 12 mil or so anywhere. So it's a poor decision to pay him double that. Next time I go for a burger should I pay 50 dollars for a burger that retails 1.99 for an act of appreciation?

You say he's been overpaid since 08-09 right? Well tell me how man Finals they been to and how many they won, since then, compare to the better ran Mavs.

 

[trojanfight]

You say he's been overpaid since 08-09 right? Well tell me how man Finals they been to and how many they won, since then, compare to the better ran Mavs.

never said hes been overpaid for that duration. I said hes been making near the same salary for 6 years now. hes clearly not the same player at 36 years old that he was at age 30 and he shouldn't be paid like he is. and yes they have won championships. im not saying dallas has been past dallas for the last 7 years. but id say the last 2 or 3 years they have went in separate directions. kobes contract isn't the ONLY problem but its a large part of equation. dallas made some bad choices too. creating a ton of cap space for darron Williams for him to pass on to new jersey. but I think dirk taking less gave room to make mistakes. with the lakers situation. you cant trade a 1st rounder for ramon sessions and let him walk for nothing, have the nash and Dwight howard problems. between Andrew Bynum and the recently draft this year randle the lakers haven't drafted anyone that remained on team. so all those things combined with kobe contract makes a bad combo..

 

[Lakers+USC=#1]

never said hes been overpaid for that duration. I said hes been making near the same salary for 6 years now. hes clearly not the same player at 36 years old that he was at age 30 and he shouldn't be paid like he is. and yes they have won championships. im not saying dallas has been past dallas for the last 7 years. but id say the last 2 or 3 years they have went in separate directions. kobes contract isn't the ONLY problem but its a large part of equation. dallas made some bad choices too. creating a ton of cap space for darron Williams for him to pass on to new jersey. but I think dirk taking less gave room to make mistakes. with the lakers situation. you cant trade a 1st rounder for ramon sessions and let him walk for nothing, have the nash and Dwight howard problems. between Andrew Bynum and the recently draft this year randle the lakers haven't drafted anyone that remained on team. so all those things combined with kobe contract makes a bad combo..

Like I said in the other thread, that 1st round pick was going to be a late round pick and wasn't getting any playing time with the Lakers. So why not trade that pick, for a proven PG in Sessions, which we needed. The Lakers always traded their picks we never used our rookies to play a big role, so we got players through trades and free agency, and it worked.

To your other point about letting Sessions walk for nothing, that's not how it went down. You see, Sessions was going to resign with the Lakers, but when Nash wanted to come to the Lakers, it was a big upgrade. So that's why we ley sessions walk. Any GM would've done that.

Just two years ago, they had a team that was favored to win the Championship, so obviously they been making good decisions. Now, they made a mistake for keeping Mike D as coach, which caused Dwight to leave.

And to your last point about the Lakers having no drafted players remain on the team. Once again, the Lakers won by trades and free agency. You can't have a problem with that because it WORK!!! Now that they are in rebuilding mode, you will see more of these draft picks remain on the team.
Now,

 

[trojanfan12]

never said hes been overpaid for that duration. I said hes been making near the same salary for 6 years now. hes clearly not the same player at 36 years old that he was at age 30 and he shouldn't be paid like he is. and yes they have won championships. im not saying dallas has been past dallas for the last 7 years. but id say the last 2 or 3 years they have went in separate directions. kobes contract isn't the ONLY problem but its a large part of equation. dallas made some bad choices too. creating a ton of cap space for darron Williams for him to pass on to new jersey. but I think dirk taking less gave room to make mistakes. with the lakers situation. you cant trade a 1st rounder for ramon sessions and let him walk for nothing, have the nash and Dwight howard problems. between Andrew Bynum and the recently draft this year randle the lakers haven't drafted anyone that remained on team. so all those things combined with kobe contract makes a bad combo..

So much wrong here, I'm not even sure where to start.

First of all, his contract is his contract. Even if he decided it was too much money and he wanted to tear it up and sign a new one for less, he can't. The NBAPA would shit themselves and it wouldn't be allowed. Harping on it over and over again is a pointless waste of time.

Second, who the hell are you to say how much he should be paid. It's what the Lakers felt he was worth, it's what they offered and it's what he accepted. As has been pointed out, he has made and continues to make, more money for the Lakers than they will ever pay him, so from a business perspective, it makes perfect sense.

Third, it has been shown and explained by both Mitch Kupchak and Jeanie Buss that Kobe's contract has not prevented the Lakers from having the money to add a top tier free agent or 2. Not sure why that is so hard for some people to grasp. They threw max money at both 'Melo and Lebron who chose to do what everyone knew they were going to do anyway. But as Mitch said, they "had to try" and as Kobe said, "they gave their best effort and that's all I can ask.

Fourth, even if Kobe's contract was somehow crippling the Lakers ability to add better players and/or top tier FA's, it's a 2 year contract that expires in the 2nd season of what the FO has said is a 3 year plan. So, it's not as if the Lakers would be looking at 5+ years of being hamstrung because of it.

But don't worry, I'm sure Logicman will be along any minute to tell you how much more "logical" you're being compared to the rest of us. So you have that going for you.

 

[LogicMan]

Trojan, I have to say, you surprised me today with your comment on Kelly O. Even if he does well, it will be you who does deserve credit for the KOE!