Nick Foles benched!!!!!! Case Keenum to start @ Ravens this Sunday.

[Retroram52]

So you are stating during the course of a game, it is the direct responsibility of the HC to know the health status of every player on the field for every play.

Well, we will just have to disagree Retro, and your guarantees are perhaps the only baloney being served here.

You have no real insight to what's going on in these players heads, it's only your own speculations driven by your personal biases.

As far as the NFL goes, no one will be surprised if they look for a scapegoat here but it clear to most that while Fisher may be ultimately responsible for the conduct of his team, as in trainers and medical staff, it wont be due to his direct failure to act in this scenario in 'knowing the status' of anyone of his players.

Yea I am stating that because that is what every coach does every game except, according to you, Fisher doesn't or is not required of him. Fisher has headphones on connected to both coordinators. He gets game synopses as they occur and he can routinely receive reports of the health of any player at any time before, during, and after the games by his coordinators and the training and medical staff just like every other HC in the league does. But this obvious point alludes you for some reason.

Similar to the bolded part above, you have a need to defend a coach that is simply done here. And you're suggesting that your posts are free from personal biases by accusing me of having personal biases? Your defense of Fisher is prime example of a personal biases that are obviously out of touch with a guy who is completely failing.

 

[Smed55]

First of all if Fisher said he didn't know, I believe him, there seems to be a lot that he doesn't know?

Yes apparently EVERYONE failed on this play! Shouldn't the "head" linesman have some say in this also?

 

[Vitamike]

Yea I am stating that because that is what every coach does every game except, according to you, Fisher doesn't or is not required of him. Fisher has headphones on connected to both coordinators. He gets game synopses as they occur and he can routinely receive reports of the health of any player at any time before, during, and after the games by his coordinators and the training and medical staff just like every other HC in the league does. But this obvious point alludes you for some reason.

Similar to the bolded part above, you have a need to defend a coach that is simply done here. And you're suggesting that your posts are free from personal biases by accusing me of having personal biases? Your defense of Fisher is prime example of a personal biases that are obviously out of touch with a guy who is completely failing.

Retro, this is not personal, we just simply don't agree. I'm not protecting J.Fisher, I am talking about who exactly is responsible to protect the player in these concussion protocol situations.

So it's not just CJF, it's all HC's in the NFL I'm am advocating for.

Go back and read the link to the NFL's Concussion Protocol I listed and tell me where you see the HC is directly responsible in any aspect for any player health status under the Concussion Protocol.

 

[Retroram52]

The concussion protocol would not dictate those terms because that is a medical issue that is handled by the medical and training staffs but the HC is the CEO of the team and he would be kept in the loop. Thus Fisher's reference every Monday in his presser where he reports on player's injuries.

We are not talking about be aware of the concussion protocol. WE are talking about a HC who is not aware of his QB's condition on the field during a game play and seemed clueless as was everyone else. Don't get the two things confused. They are connected because the HC has to make the final decision on whether or not to play his concussed player are abide by the recommended protocol.

 

[Vitamike]

We are not talking about be aware of the concussion protocol. WE are talking about a HC who is not aware of his QB's condition on the field during a game play and seemed clueless as was everyone else. Don't get the two things confused. They are connected because the HC has to make the final decision on whether or not to play his concussed player are abide by the recommended protocol.

No, and here lies the disconnect.

"We've" all been discussing the the concussion protocol and how it was handled in the Ravens game.

You, on the other hand are on CJF jock and want to discuss how he was unaware of anything this important during a game.

You Sir, have found a way to connect the two because it fits your agenda. (If you were satisfied with our current HC you would probably see things differently and that's the point)

Therefore, that is why you want to implicate a specific Head Coach in this discussion, and in this arena, specifically Coach Jeff Fisher (CJF).

If it were a specific function of the HC it would be out lined in the NFL's Concussion Protocol.

 

[Retroram52]

Are you braindead and/or blind Vita? From post 106 to 126 we were discussing Fisher's denial of knowing what happened to his QB on that play. You even joined in and it was you that added the concussion protocol to begin with at post 99 when the rest of us were talking about Fisher being clueless. You had one or two posts discussing the concussion protocol but very few have bought and thus the thread continued. WE all were not discussing the protocol. You and maybe one or two others were but starting at post 106, the discussion returned to Fisher not knowing. So, who was promoting an agenda here?

 

[ozarkram]

Too stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. (again) Probably enough blame to go around in this thing. Did the coach know? Yeah. Should the player have been pulled? Yep. Did the NFL screw up? Yep. Was it criminal? No I don't think so. Lets remember a player will almost never say he wants to be pulled. Heat of the moment and all that. And lets remember this is all new. Still bugs in the system. Player safety comes first. But I have hard time believing any coach at this level would put his QB in harms way on purpose.

 

[ozarkram]

Well there was that thing with Shanahan. But I never liked RG3 anyway.

 

[Smed55]

I'm surprised that there wasn't a fine and suspension, that's what Mike Zimmer would have wanted? Hey Mike, it's football shit happens! Putz!

 

[Vitamike]

Are you braindead and/or blind Vita?

I've been saying all along that we just don't agree, apparently not even on the subject matter.

I think the two are completely intertwined

Lighten up on the insults man, it's a time to be thankful and a time for brotherhood.

 

[shopson67]

Does it matter whether he was unaware or deceptive about being unaware? Both are terrible things that cannot be allowed when dealing with head injuries. It is hard to believe that Fisher wasn't aware when clearly his former starting QB was, especially during the last ditch effort to save the game. I personally think that being unaware is worse and more telling than trying to cover it up, especially for these Rams.

 

[Vitamike]

Does it matter whether he was unaware or deceptive about being unaware? Both are terrible things that cannot be allowed when dealing with head injuries. It is hard to believe that Fisher wasn't aware when clearly his former starting QB was, especially during the last ditch effort to save the game. I personally think that being unaware is worse and more telling than trying to cover it up, especially for these Rams.

Well the buck needs to stop somewhere, I guess if all of you want to believe that this is the primary duty of the HC than you all are entitled to your belief.

Since it's not spelled out that way in the NFL's concussion protocol, I have to believe that the focus of an NFL head coach, especially in a critical game situation we were in, is not focusing on something that is not his primary function, specifically because there are those in place like the NFL spotters that should be accountable for stopping action and involving the HC so they are aware.

I think he needs to know & I think he wants to know.

I just believe he relies on the NFL spotters and his own Medical staff to do their jobs and report to him if there is an issue.

Good leaders rely on others to support them, not manage every aspect of every detail.

I find this situation very similar to Bill Belichick's role in deflate-gate. He doesn't involve his self in those details of proper inflation, there are people who manage that aspect.

He just does HIS job.

 

[Battlelyon]

Rams HC Jeff Fisher told reporters that Case Keenum has yet to clear concussion protocol and they’re currently planning to start Nick Foles against the Bengals, per Nick Wagoner.

• Fisher added that they plan to see how Keenum is doing on Saturday before making anything official.

St. Louis elected to bench Foles in favor of Keenum last week, but he unfortunately sustained a concussion against the Ravens, but was left in game.

Foles, 26, came over in a trade from the Eagles that sent Sam Bradford to Philadelphia. He had one year remaining on his rookie contract when the Rams signed him to a two-year, $24 million extension back in August.

This season, Foles has completed just 56.6 percent of his passes, throwing only seven touchdowns to go with six interceptions. Last week during the Rams’ 37-13 loss to the Bears, Foles was 17 of 36 for 200 yards and an interception.

Keenum has apoeared in two games this season and thrown for 136 yards while completing 46.2 percent of his passes to go along with one touchdown and no picks.

 

[Retroram52]

Foles better learn how to duck because with Havenstein out and this O-line in its present state, he could be on his back a lot tomorrow.

 

[shopson67]

Well the buck needs to stop somewhere, I guess if all of you want to believe that this is the primary duty of the HC than you all are entitled to your belief.

Since it's not spelled out that way in the NFL's concussion protocol, I have to believe that the focus of an NFL head coach, especially in a critical game situation we were in, is not focusing on something that is not his primary function, specifically because there are those in place like the NFL spotters that should be accountable for stopping action and involving the HC so they are aware.

I think he needs to know & I think he wants to know.

I just believe he relies on the NFL spotters and his own Medical staff to do their jobs and report to him if there is an issue.

Good leaders rely on others to support them, not manage every aspect of every detail.

I find this situation very similar to Bill Belichick's role in deflate-gate. He doesn't involve his self in those details of proper inflation, there are people who manage that aspect.

He just does HIS job.

If you're the head coach, you are ultimately responsible for everything that your employees do. He doesn't call plays, so what else is he looking at while watching his QB wobble after immediately grabbing his head after hitting the ground? Was he on his phone looking for more Titans has-beens to plague the team with?

 

[Retroram52]

Precisely Shopson!

 

[Vitamike]

While I agree the ultimate responsibility does end with the HC, it doesn't mean he has eyes on the actual events as they occur.

I'm gonna guess that neither you Shops nor you RR have ever been in a leadership role where you are 'accountable' and ultimately responsible in the big scope of things. If either of you were, you would have a greater understanding of situations like these.

Hell, when you're in a leadership role of this magnitude, you're responsible even when your are not even there on site.

Now I know Fisher was in this instances, but when you count on others to report to you on certain events and your focus is on others it's really the same difference.

 

[Retroram52]

Oh, you are dead wrong on that Vita. Having taught at major universities with rooms of 200 kids in lecture halls and sech and been a member of peer mentor programs as well as conducted major research in cancer and published scientific articles in peer-reviewed journals, I am acutely aware of what the role of leadership demands. Fisher dropped the ball and he got caught not paying attention. Granted he may not have witnessed the actual event, but as Shopson accurately stated, he cannot claim that this is not his responsibility for doing nothing by hiding behind the implication that he didn't "see" the actual incident.

 

[Vitamike]

Retro, as impressive as those leadership roles are that you've been/are involved with, they are void of true direct reports and down line reports. These types of reports are people who are responsible for various functions within an organization which allow leadership to focus on the big scope of things while communicating with various key direct reports in action in the function of their leadership role. Should one of the key direct reports fail, unfortunately it becomes a reactionary action such as was the case here with CJF.

Also, I'll state it again Retro, if it were intended to be a primary function of the HC, we would see it clearly spelled out in the NFL's concussion protocol and it is not.

he cannot claim that this is not his responsibility for doing nothing by hiding behind the implication that he didn't "see" the actual incident.

Last if some wish to implicate CJF as in 'hiding' that's fine, but those folks are basically calling CJF a liar, because no one can have a realistic expectation of someone 'reacting' to something they did not see. That's ridiculous!

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Still waiting for S Mannion's turn @ throwing the rwak about the yard.