New Orleans

[HaroldSeattle]

Plenty of people outside of Seattle also don't embarrass themselve's by calling him a pocket passer. Find another station. Great Fact plenty of people outside Seattle...

Just how many threads you going to turn into pissing contests? You can consider RW however you like and we can do the same. Give it a break, and not derail thread after thread.

 

[chf]

C'mon Sonny, you know how this works. NW knows what's stats are okay, and which are just nit-picking. He also knows which media are knowledgeable, and which aren't.

Just ask him.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

And now, this.....

No Michael Bennett. Maybe for the rest of the season.

May be a thread elsewhere about it but it's a fact.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Just how many threads you going to turn into pissing contests? You can consider RW however you like and we can do the same. Give it a break, and not derail thread after thread.

Oh I forgot this was the main board not the Seattle board. Grow up. You and your croonies continue to argue their point yet I'm the one derailing the thread. Three Seattle homers continue their claim RW is a pocket passer. I continue to provide insight why he's not. Whether anyone of you circa 2012 fans want to agree with it or not? So I guess your opinion makes it fact. Go grab the Vagasil.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

C'mon Sonny, you know how this works. NW knows what's stats are okay, and which are just nit-picking. He also knows which media are knowledgeable, and which aren't.

Just ask him.

You are learning that's a good thing. It's just taking forever. If you recall I'm the one who continually states stats are useless for the most part. Yet it's extremely entertaining watching you and the other easily feather ruffled clowns pick and choose which ones you think are credibile. Keep up the good work Skippy.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Oh I forgot this was the main board not the Seattle board. Grow up. You and your croonies continue to argue their point yet I'm the one derailing the thread. Three Seattle homers continue their claim RW is a pocket passer. I continue to provide insight why he's not. Whether anyone of you circa 2012 fans want to agree with it or not? So I guess your opinion makes it fact. Go grab the Vagasil.

So now that you've spent a few pages on how Wilson isn't a good pocket passer, what brings you to that conclusion? What things did you see him not doing in the pocket last year that leads to this? Because I thought he threw really well in the pocket last season.

 

[chf]

You are learning that's a good thing. It's just taking forever. If you recall I'm the one who continually states stats are useless for the most part. Yet it's extremely entertaining watching you and the other easily feather ruffled clowns pick and choose which ones you think are credibile. Keep up the good work Skippy.

<zoom>

right over your head.

And uses, 'skippy' to boot. Awesome.

That there would be irony sport.

 

[chf]

So now that you've spent a few pages on how Wilson isn't a good pocket passer, what brings you to that conclusion? What things did you see him not doing in the pocket last year that leads to this? Because I thought he threw really well in the pocket last season.

It's a carefully concealed statistical argument, that's NOT a statistical argument, because stats are for 'nit pickers'.

See if you can follow along. I spent the last several days with a whiteboard and dry erase markers, flow charting his mastery. It's tough to keep up.

1. Last year in the first 8 games, Wilson and his O-line struggled mightily, resulting in him having to resort to his scrambling to survive.

2. In the last 8 games, the team had him try something new, staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball more quickly.

3. Those 8 games (where he went on a historic tear) aren't a big enough SAMPLE SIZE out of the entire body of Wilson's work for NW to admit that Wilson might be quite capable of being a 'pocket passer.'

4. Because he's making that argument by typing out words instead of numbers, he isn't making a STATISTICAL ARGUMENT, so he's safe from being tarred by his own 'nit-picker' brush.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

It's a carefully concealed statistical argument, that's NOT a statistical argument, because stats are for 'nit pickers'.

See if you can follow along. I spent the last several days with a whiteboard and dry erase markers, flow charting his mastery. It's tough to keep up.

1. Last year in the first 8 games, Wilson and his O-line struggled mightily, resulting in him having to resort to his scrambling to survive.

2. In the last 8 games, the team had him try something new, staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball more quickly.

3. Those 8 games (where he went on a historic tear) aren't a big enough SAMPLE SIZE out of the entire body of Wilson's work for NW to admit that Wilson might be quite capable of being a 'pocket passer.'

4. Because he's making that argument by typing out words instead of numbers, he isn't making a STATISTICAL ARGUMENT, so he's safe from being tarred by his own 'nit-picker' brush.

And I can see the opinions that he hasn't done it long enough, it's only been a few years now. Sure the highest QB rating of any QB in the pocket in a season the past three years was Russell Wilson last year. And sure when Lynch and Rawls and Graham all went out he had something like 22 TD's to 1 INT in the pocket, completing nearly 80% of his passes and a 145 QB rating.

But just watching his games, he can do what you need to be successful in the pocket. He has solid mechanics. Footwork, throwing motion, not issues. He can diagnose a defense and read a blitz and align based on that. He looks off DB's A LOT (one of his big strengths I see). He can throw all the throws (especially from the pocket to outside the hash-marks on both sides of the field) and make them with anticipation rather than a guy like Kaep or Cutler who throws when they are open.

That's what I saw a few years ago when some guy was trying to say Kaep's stats were similar to Wilson's. Sure, they were close stats overall, but in the pocket Wilson excelled (105 QB rating, 67% completions, 20 TD's 5 INT's) and Kaep didn't (80 QB rating, 57% completions, 12 TD's 10 INT's). That to me is what provides the consistency that gets you long term success.



Now that's not to say he's Drew Brees in the pocket. I think he has had times where he's run out of clean pockets before the pressure was near him, and those plays really cut the field in half. I think while him and Baldwin work as well as any QB/WR combo in the NFL together, he has some building of rapport to do with his other weapons at times.

I think he holds the ball a bit much where other non-mobile QB's take the dump off. Leads to some big plays both ways. I think his ability to break contain doesn't allow defenses to play him like they would a normal pocket passer (less pin the ears back and rush and more gap assign while rushing).



But I think we get too caught up when he makes a huge play outside of the pocket and say 'well he does that because he's not a pocket QB', which if you don't just watch the highlights, obviously isn't true. To me that's what has set him apart from a lot of other running QB's.

 

[chf]

Yep he's a work in progress. Which is fun for us Seahawk fans.

And sure, him having the ability TO run, sometimes makes him hold the ball too long, or not take the easy check-down.

I remember someone linking an article on Bill Walsh literally tying Steve Young's feet together, because he wanted him to play practice without the option of running. Idea being to re-train the brain to get out of familiar habits.

At any rate, BECAUSE people remember the big flashy scrambly plays, they forget the mundane effective stuff he's quite capable of too.

Example i use of that is the 13 Superbowl. In the first half, when the game was still in doubt, it wasn't Lynch moving the chains and putting points on the board. It wasn't Wilson running around. It was Wilson passing, mostly from the pocket. Converting on 3rd downs.

He didn't wow us with his chunk plays. He didn't run around and buy time. He just moved the sticks, and even though they didn't convert major scores much, he put points up.

2nd half, with special teams and a pick 6, suddenly the game was a laugher.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

It's a carefully concealed statistical argument, that's NOT a statistical argument, because stats are for 'nit pickers'.

See if you can follow along. I spent the last several days with a whiteboard and dry erase markers, flow charting his mastery. It's tough to keep up.

1. Last year in the first 8 games, Wilson and his O-line struggled mightily, resulting in him having to resort to his scrambling to survive.

2. In the last 8 games, the team had him try something new, staying in the pocket, and delivering the ball more quickly.

3. Those 8 games (where he went on a historic tear) aren't a big enough SAMPLE SIZE out of the entire body of Wilson's work for NW to admit that Wilson might be quite capable of being a 'pocket passer.'

4. Because he's making that argument by typing out words instead of numbers, he isn't making a STATISTICAL ARGUMENT, so he's safe from being tarred by his own 'nit-picker' brush.

Translated = Wilson had 5 great games from the pocket. He's played 70. Seattle lingo= great pocket passer. I guess this season doesn't count in the sample size because of all the excuses I already listed. Can he become a pocket passer? Sure. So can I. He likely will become a pp but shouldn't be considered one at this point.

 

[chf]

Translated = Wilson had 5 great games from the pocket. He's played 70. Seattle lingo= great pocket passer. I guess this season doesn't count in the sample size because of all the excuses I already listed. Can he become a pocket passer? Sure. So can I. He likely will become a pp but shouldn't be considered one at this point.

Heh, and now the strawman argument.

And you're STILL not making a stats argument, right?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Heh, and now the strawman argument.

And you're STILL not making a stats argument, right?

If you want to consider the # of games played a stat then you're on it. How long you going to make me wait before you start with RW has an x,y,z % when moving left to right in the pocket when playing on any day but Sunday, on artificial turf, with two starting defensive players out. You're still upset I think he had 5 good games while you insist it was 8 in a row. Oh no I used two numbers I'm becoming a cyber stat geek

 

[chf]

If you want to consider the # of games played a stat then you're on it. How long you going to make me wait before you start with RW has an x,y,z % when moving left to right in the pocket when playing on any day but Sunday, on artificial turf, with two starting defensive players out. You're still upset I think he had 5 good games while you insist it was 8 in a row. Oh no I used two numbers I'm becoming a cyber stat geek

Probably a long time, since I've never made a post like that. Feel free to dig one up.

What's priceless is watching YOU pick and choose when stats are relevant to a discussion and when they're not.

 

[cdumler7]

Couple of notes towards this game...

1) Michael Bennett is having surgery this week and will be out probably 2-3 weeks after the surgery.

2) From what I understand the Seahawks are in contract negotiations with Bennett to try and show him how much they value him being a part of this organization.

3) Since week 3 of the season here is a list of some of the players with more rushing yards than Russell Wilson. Drew Brees, the Raiders punter Marquette King, and Tom Brady. Russell Wilson only has 3 rushing yards since week 3. Those injuries have really taken away such a huge aspect of Wilson's game.

 

[Uhsplit]

And now, this.....

No Michael Bennett. Maybe for the rest of the season.

May be a thread elsewhere about it but it's a fact.

Sorry to disappoint you Hank.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

WOW so the refs have decided it's ok for the Saints to cheat ? They're running pick play's on offense and taking our DB's out of the play.... @#$^

 

[GNG]

WOW so the refs have decided it's ok for the Saints to cheat ? They're running pick play's on offense and taking our DB's out of the play.... @#$^

Teams run pick plays all the time. The Patriots probably more than any of them.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Teams run pick plays all the time. The Patriots probably more than any of them.

I know but this was past the 1 yard rule and obviously a penalty... receivers shouldn't get away with that crap ...

 

[jarntt]

WOW so the refs have decided it's ok for the Saints to cheat ? They're running pick play's on offense and taking our DB's out of the play.... @#$^

What weak BS...