NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[DJ]

It's more of a formality. Ellington generally averages about 20 mins a game. With this team he probably gets even less.

He'll be a "ghost starter."

Average 15-18mpg to provide outside shooting.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Really looking forward to this heavyweight tonight

@CitySushi

 

[Shanemansj13]

You are screwed either way if he isn’t your franchise QB.

Agree but I’ve seen enough from him that I truly believe he is a franchise QB. The question is what level of a franchise QB can he be? We will see this year. You won’t hear any excuses from me if he doesn’t live up to expectations. But I will say that doesn’t mean he has to throw 40 TD’s and 6 INT’s but I also won’t look at it from a team accomplishment as well. 13 wins doesn’t mean he deserves it but the Browns might look at it differently. I have faith in Berry

 

[trojanfan12]

Agree but I’ve seen enough from him that I truly believe he is a franchise QB. The question is what level of a franchise QB can he be? We will see this year. You won’t hear any excuses from me if he doesn’t live up to expectations. But I will say that doesn’t mean he has to throw 40 TD’s and 6 INT’s but I also won’t look at it from a team accomplishment as well. 13 wins doesn’t mean he deserves it but the Browns might look at it differently. I have faith in Berry

Imo, the Browns need to be careful that this doesn't turn into a Cowboys with Dak situation. They kept putting off extending him, then had to franchise tag him what? Twice? Then ended up giving him everything he wanted...and they still don't seem convinced that he is their guy. But it doesn't matter now, they're stuck. Had they extended him 2 or 3 years ago, they could have saved a lot of money.

The Browns FO seems smart enough that they won't make that mistake. But tlance in right in that, the longer they wait, the more it's going to cost them. They may be fine with that, especially if he balls out. But the more they pay him, the less money they have to work with if they need to get/keep other players.

That's why QB's who have made their money will sometimes restructure their contracts or take a little less. Baker hasn't made his money yet, so it's unlikely he's going to want to take anything less than the maximum he can get.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Imo, the Browns need to be careful that this doesn't turn into a Cowboys with Dak situation. They kept putting off extending him, then had to franchise tag him what? Twice? Then ended up giving him everything he wanted...and they still don't seem convinced that he is their guy. But it doesn't matter now, they're stuck.

Had they extended him 2 or 3 years ago, they could have saved a lot of money. The Browns FO seems smart enough that they won't make that mistake. But tlance in right in that, the longer they wait, the more it's going to cost them. They may be fine with that, especially if he balls out. But the more they pay him, the less money they have to work with if they need to get/keep other players.

Yeah true, I believe the tag won’t be in play and a decision will be made bc if they were to wait one more year that’s when the price could get crazy. And I have always agreed the longer they wait the larger the price but imo the risk is greater if you pull the trigger early (this offseason) and he stinks it up. You are put in the situation of living with your decision for 3, 4 or 5 years. That would be a nightmare. I also think Berry has the future in plan no matter the price…$45M/year lets say. He has a plan. I mean if you look at what they gave Chubb and Hunt, that’s a bargain. That already makes up for a some of the difference if they pay Baker more. The hope is Baker is that guy and as soon as he truly proves that, they pull the trigger. I mean for all that we know that is early in the regular season and they don’t wait a full year. Like you said, I just want them to have full faith in Baker for the future. This isn’t a 3 year plan or even a 5 year plan. This could be a 10 year plan. Berry is that good imo

 

[Shanemansj13]

Total domination by Gane. Just way too athletic and strong for Lewis. Wow

 

[tlance]

Agree but I’ve seen enough from him that I truly believe he is a franchise QB. The question is what level of a franchise QB can he be? We will see this year. You won’t hear any excuses from me if he doesn’t live up to expectations. But I will say that doesn’t mean he has to throw 40 TD’s and 6 INT’s but I also won’t look at it from a team accomplishment as well. 13 wins doesn’t mean he deserves it but the Browns might look at it differently. I have faith in Berry

Exactly.

Which is why waiting to pay him makes no sense.

 

[tlance]

Imo, the Browns need to be careful that this doesn't turn into a Cowboys with Dak situation. They kept putting off extending him, then had to franchise tag him what? Twice? Then ended up giving him everything he wanted...and they still don't seem convinced that he is their guy. But it doesn't matter now, they're stuck. Had they extended him 2 or 3 years ago, they could have saved a lot of money.

The Browns FO seems smart enough that they won't make that mistake. But tlance in right in that, the longer they wait, the more it's going to cost them. They may be fine with that, especially if he balls out. But the more they pay him, the less money they have to work with if they need to get/keep other players.

That's why QB's who have made their money will sometimes restructure their contracts or take a little less. Baker hasn't made his money yet, so it's unlikely he's going to want to take anything less than the maximum he can get.

QB is the one position you can’t afford to mess around with.

Pay him early and get it done. 1 less distraction.

Kirk Cousins is the other, even worse example of how things could go. Delay that long term deal long enough and bad blood could develop between the player and the organization.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

By all accounts Baker is content with the situation. He's still got 19 for next year which I'm sure will grow. But not pressing the matter allows them to better evaluate the roster and which cut to make to pay for Baker to get his money. Because he will get his so long as he does what he needs to do.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

The obvious casualty is OBJ but Jarvis may be the one to go if OBJ can return to form. Jarvis isn't a 1, OBJ has been a 1.

DPJ is having an amazing camp that really helps things there also.

They still need to figure out what to do with Teller and much of their DL is only a 1 year deal

 

[Shanemansj13]

QB is the one position you can’t afford to mess around with.

Pay him early and get it done. 1 less distraction.

Kirk Cousins is the other, even worse example of how things could go. Delay that long term deal long enough and bad blood could develop between the player and the organization.

Not when you communicate with the player. Baker is betting on himself, we don’t know anything behind the scenes right now. So to even say the Browns are not doing this or doing that is all opinion at this point.

Like I told Trojan, at this point they could sign him mid-season, in that case nothing changes. The fact is we don’t know what Baker’s price is at this point. Baker has actually outproduced Allen in TD’s and yards so if he thinks he is better than Allen he might already want his deal, so in that case now or later means nothing.

Huge overreaction.

 

[dtgold88]

Kirk Cousins was the highest paid QB in the league when he signed his deal with Minnesota.

And I did actually address the flameout possibility in the past.

If he flames out, then it won’t matter that he is signed to a bad contract because the Browns won’t be a contending team without him playing well/

They also probably won’t be a contending team if they are on the QB market after next season.

Been trying to get an answer for this and if I missed it my apologies....based only on what we KNOW what have the Browns done wrong? FYI, we don;t know what has been offered to him, turned down, countered, etc.

 

[dtgold88]

Nope.

I would be saying it is the right move.

Actually less risky to sign him early.

Thing is, there is some risk either way. Signing him early is betting on your guy to succeed, which almost always plays better than the other way around, which almost seems like guarding against him failing.

I just think that is the wrong approach to managing a sports team.

You'd be saying it was the right move to sign him early even if he regressed or even flamed out? Stop it. Never mind you continue to ignore one simple fact......you don't know what has been offered by either side.

I get you are going by your own team's history and how it played out with Cousins, but maybe Berry/Dipo have a better handle on things than Snyder?

FYI, none of this is to say don't sign him or they shouldn't have gotten it done sooner....but you cannot make a guy sign.

 

[dtgold88]

Nope, more risky to sign him earlier. Like I said before, this is a team that has been in the gutter for a long time. If you sign him early and he doesn’t play up to expectations you are screwed for the future. If you wait and have to pay more you still got your guy but at a bigger price. It’s not like they are going to lose him, so really no risk.

I think you are definitely overthinking this, it’s pretty simple imo. Josh Allen and Lamar are in different circumstances. One won a MVP and the other had a great season and got his team to the AFCCG but I think it is fair they are waiting on Lamar, still some reason to worry. The worst thing a team can do is jeopardize their future committing to a QB too early, Wentz is a perfect example.

I mostly agree with this....but, sure, if there's a number each side likes then go ahead and sign him early.

 

[dtgold88]

You are screwed either way if he isn’t your franchise QB.

True...but seems likely he's the franchise guy. Only question what level. Barely top half? top 10? 5?

I think we'll know after this season.

 

[dtgold88]

Imo, the Browns need to be careful that this doesn't turn into a Cowboys with Dak situation. They kept putting off extending him, then had to franchise tag him what? Twice? Then ended up giving him everything he wanted...and they still don't seem convinced that he is their guy. But it doesn't matter now, they're stuck. Had they extended him 2 or 3 years ago, they could have saved a lot of money.

The Browns FO seems smart enough that they won't make that mistake. But tlance in right in that, the longer they wait, the more it's going to cost them. They may be fine with that, especially if he balls out. But the more they pay him, the less money they have to work with if they need to get/keep other players.

That's why QB's who have made their money will sometimes restructure their contracts or take a little less. Baker hasn't made his money yet, so it's unlikely he's going to want to take anything less than the maximum he can get.

all true...situation would be more dire if he was entering the final season of deal (in getting to a "Dak situation"). your last comment might be why a deal has not been reached yet. Takes both sides.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah true, I believe the tag won’t be in play and a decision will be made bc if they were to wait one more year that’s when the price could get crazy. And I have always agreed the longer they wait the larger the price but imo the risk is greater if you pull the trigger early (this offseason) and he stinks it up. You are put in the situation of living with your decision for 3, 4 or 5 years. That would be a nightmare. I also think Berry has the future in plan no matter the price…$45M/year lets say. He has a plan. I mean if you look at what they gave Chubb and Hunt, that’s a bargain. That already makes up for a some of the difference if they pay Baker more. The hope is Baker is that guy and as soon as he truly proves that, they pull the trigger. I mean for all that we know that is early in the regular season and they don’t wait a full year. Like you said, I just want them to have full faith in Baker for the future. This isn’t a 3 year plan or even a 5 year plan. This could be a 10 year plan. Berry is that good imo

Agree, but again only disagreement is they would pull the trigger before the season. Is definitely nice - and something you alluded to - they don't seems to need to pay a tax to keep guys simply for being the Browns.

 

[dtgold88]

Exactly.

Which is why waiting to pay him makes no sense.

so you keep saying....ignoring the deal has to be right for both parties. Are you suggesting negotiations should just go like this.....
Baker - "I want (whatever the number is)"
Browns - "OK"

Before you again say there's a number both would take, of course, but we don't know which side isn't where they want.

 

[dtgold88]

QB is the one position you can’t afford to mess around with.

Pay him early and get it done. 1 less distraction.

Kirk Cousins is the other, even worse example of how things could go. Delay that long term deal long enough and bad blood could develop between the player and the organization.

Of course...but, again, maybe Berry and Dipo have a better handle on this than Snyder did?

 

[dtgold88]

The obvious casualty is OBJ but Jarvis may be the one to go if OBJ can return to form. Jarvis isn't a 1, OBJ has been a 1.

DPJ is having an amazing camp that really helps things there also.

They still need to figure out what to do with Teller and much of their DL is only a 1 year deal

agree totally with first part. Have to assume either OBJ or Landry is gone after the season and will come down to how OBJ plays. If he's even close to himself he likely stays.

I hope everything we are hearing about DPJ in camp is true but hard to be close to sure until we see it in real games.

My guess is they resign Teller and Bitonio and/or Tretter is a casualty next offseason (unless they will take less to stay.