Most Overrated Players at every position?

[Great Dayne]

I can say that you are an idiot that thinks a rookie going to 5 straight playoffs and a SB is 1 lucky year, and that you need to put the pipe down and try to retain a few brain cells before they are all gone....Judging by this last post, it may be too late already...

1.) You used the SB as the main way to justify him deserving to be considered elite which is why I only used that specific example.
2.) You're still going off of team success over individual performance combined with the surrounding talent and resources at his disposal which is an inferior way of thinking
3.) The statistical inadequacies of Joe makes him a long way from ever being elite and if you would like to debate this with me I would be glad to enlighten you.
4.) ad hominem attacks only makes you appear childish and doesn't strengthen your argument in any way. It proves you're unable to substantiate your claims.

Your method of proving Joe isn't overrated in stating his team success is insufficient and a very poor attempt. Now, until you can provide a more logical and statistical means of proving your case you're just wasting my time with this redundant argument that is becoming quite boring now. I appreciate your effort though and wish you good luck on your future attempts.

 

[Oldschool739]

It's almost sad how you miss everything because Joe's nuts are covering you eyes.
Go back and look who's been getting the winner and funny icons.
Not you sweet cheeks. Look at post #7 and 8 for a good example.
just another swing and a miss there skippy

 

[Oldschool739]

1.) You used the SB as the main way to justify him deserving to be considered elite which is why I only used that specific example.
2.) You're still going off of team success over individual performance combined with the surrounding talent and resources at his disposal which is an inferior way of thinking
3.) The statistical inadequacies of Joe makes him a long way from ever being elite and if you would like to debate this with me I would be glad to enlighten you.
4.) ad hominem attacks only makes you appear childish and doesn't strengthen your argument in any way. It proves you're unable to substantiate your claims.

Your method of proving Joe isn't overrated in stating his team success is insufficient and a very poor attempt. Now, until you can provide a more logical and statistical means of proving your case you're just wasting my time with this redundant argument that is becoming quite boring now. I appreciate your effort though and wish you good luck on your future attempts.

You have a real problem reading and comprehending, I used his over all accomplishments and the SB was an important one....You really should get someone to help you because you are like talking to bird, you make a lot of noise but ain't saying nothing....

 

[Great Dayne]

You have a real problem reading and comprehending, I used his over all accomplishments and the SB was an important one....You really should get someone to help you because you are like talking to bird, you make a lot of noise but ain't saying nothing....

His overall accomplishments of rookie of the year and MVP of one game. Sorry Charlie but that doesn't make him an elite QB. QB's like Vince Young, RGIII, and Sam Bradford have won the ROY before and QB's win the SB MVP more often than not.

Statistically, he's not even close to an elite QB and if anything it makes him look very average at best.

He doesn't pass the eye test either as an elite QB. I have nothing against him but he's just doesn't check all the boxes off when determining if a QB is elite or not. This isn't to say he's terrible but he's not elite. He is better than Jay Cutler though that's for sure.

 

[SteelersPride]

View attachment 161681

84.5 career QB rating
61% completion percentage
6.88 YPC

yikes

 

[nebearsfan70]

RB: Jordan Howard
QB: Joe Flacco
WR: Brandin Cooks
TE: Martellus Bennett
OL: Jack Conklin

S: Reshad Jones
CB: Janoris Jenkins
Edge: Melvin Ingram I guess after seeing his contract
ILB: Cushing
DT: Dontari Poe

How is Howard overrated? He's not even in the NFL top 100 players and nobody gives two shits about the Bears?

I would love to hear your rationale...

 

[SteelersPride]

so seriously is the answer joe flacco

 

[nebearsfan70]

Like the Bears?

Interestingly, the Packers and Bears would probably switch records if that happened.

 

[SteelersPride]

Interestingly, the Packers and Bears would probably switch records if that happened.

joe flacco

 

[Great Dayne]

joe flacco

GOAT

 

[Great Dayne]

Interestingly, the Packers and Bears would probably switch records if that happened.

It might even the playing field if the Pack get an average QB like Dalton but if they go with a backup QB then potentially yes that might happen.

 

[Great Dayne]

84.5 career QB rating
61% completion percentage
6.88 YPC

yikes

When people say Joe is elite and then I check his stats again I do this every time. Hell, I do that even when they say he's above average.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

How is Howard overrated? He's not even in the NFL top 100 players and nobody gives two shits about the Bears?

I would love to hear your rationale...

Short and simple: His hype is exceeding his actual production.

He is not currently a very good receiver and the talk about him having 1500 yards is just over the top from what you can ask of him currently, imo. Hype is pretty premature for my liking. Make no mistake, I think he's damn good, I am just implying there needs to be some brakes for his hype train for at least right now. It's why I don't say out loud stuff like Tyreek Hill is the next Devin Hester, TY Hilton, Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson etc.

Pretty hard to overrate a RB though it seems like these days. He's probably the least overrated guy I had in my post, just my opinion.

 

[SteelersPride]

When people say Joe is elite and then I check his stats again I do this every time. Hell, I do that even when they say he's above average.

bingo

 

[cdumler7]

Short and simple: His hype is exceeding his actual production.

He is not currently a very good receiver and the talk about him having 1500 yards is just over the top from what you can ask of him currently, imo. Hype is pretty premature for my liking. Make no mistake, I think he's damn good, I am just implying there needs to be some brakes for his hype train for at least right now. It's why I don't say out loud stuff like Tyreek Hill is the next Devin Hester, TY Hilton, Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson etc.

Pretty hard to overrate a RB though it seems like these days. He's probably the least overrated guy I had in my post, just my opinion.

Going to be interesting to see how Tyreek Hill follows up this season. Teams now have a years worth of tape to try and figure out how to stop some of the gadget plays. So can he become a more well rounded WR? Can he show that the letting go of Maclin was no big deal and the WR core has some spark to it?

My guess is this year he will only see about half the returnable punts that he did a year ago. Teams will very much emphasize to just keep it away from him. Hester's punt return numbers went down dramatically after his 2nd year as teams just kept it away from him. He had 7 punt return TD's in those first 2 years and then 7 total the rest of his career. Teams just learned to take him out of the game.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Going to be interesting to see how Tyreek Hill follows up this season. Teams now have a years worth of tape to try and figure out how to stop some of the gadget plays. So can he become a more well rounded WR? Can he show that the letting go of Maclin was no big deal and the WR core has some spark to it?

My guess is this year he will only see about half the returnable punts that he did a year ago. Teams will very much emphasize to just keep it away from him. Hester's punt return numbers went down dramatically after his 2nd year as teams just kept it away from him. He had 7 punt return TD's in those first 2 years and then 7 total the rest of his career. Teams just learned to take him out of the game.

I tend to think Hill will do just fine as he adds more intermediate routes to his repertoire which will probably bump his YPC well above 10. I gif bombed the heck out of this thread Chiefs Cut Jeremy Maclin and he's a much better WR than he's given credit for, imo. Now the wacky gadget stuff where he's averaging 15 yards plus a carry is pretty darn unsustainable, but it might open up other opportunities in the passing game as teams have to honor it. We'll see.

Previously the Chiefs were running decoys and sweeps with guys like AJ Jenkins and De'Anthony Thomas and well, Hill is a 2 sigma guy and those two are just not; what's a more credible threat. Those Jet Sweeps/PA rubs are going to stay around no matter what though. That's just a nice little wrinkle he brings. Really this is uncharted waters so the impact is just flat unknown, but Hill imo breaks a lot of stereotypical "gadget" rules once you get into 2 Sigma territory where he's just obviously more athletic than >97.9% of NFL players.

Also gonna copy paste this from an earlier post on the fantasy board as it's mostly applicable to the discussion as well

There are a lot of things that say his potential is somewhere between Desean Jackson, Steve Smith, and a superior version of Antonio Brown, so there's that as a maximal outcome [though make no mistake there's a real floor here somewhere!]. He was at around 30 snaps or so (half roughly) which kind of tells you he might not be the most nuanced route runner in intermediate routes; his yards per catch being below 10
actually corroborates this theory, imo. I think the Tavon Austin comp is probably wrong because the volume of his snaps is likely to increase pretty dramatically with a full offseason to develop more nuanced routes and routerunning. Hill has real WR skills, that [are] already better than Austin in my opinion, but this is a pretty TD dependent player if he doesn't diversify his routes just a bit more. Reid using gimmicks (Sweeps aren't really gimmicks if it's ran by a 4.2 guy) isn't really a concern because by that definition every player in the offense including Kelce is a gimmick.

I wouldn't count on Albert Wilson (or some facsimile such as say Chris Conley or Demarcus Robinson) vulturing nearly as many snaps next year.

My concern really is the Chiefs no longer have a 3rd guy (unless you cheat and say Spencer Ware and that's a RB which has it's own problems) that can force defenses to adjust their coverage to them with Maclin being cut. What made me kind of interested in how the Chiefs passing game was going to look this year is it would have 3 passcatchers that can really truly cause problems for talented secondaries- now they're down to two and one of them is a TE.

As for the more immediate question of Is Tyreek Hill a #1 receiver: Maybe. May-be. Possibly. I do not know. I would bet he is by 2018. 2017? Seems ambitious. Looks promising, but the intermediate routes are a real big sticking point- can't ignore the sub 10 yards per catch.

 

[cdumler7]

I tend to think Hill will do just fine as he adds more intermediate routes to his repertoire which will probably bump his YPC well above 10. I gif bombed the heck out of this thread Chiefs Cut Jeremy Maclin and he's a much better WR than he's given credit for, imo. Now the wacky gadget stuff where he's averaging 15 yards plus a carry is pretty darn unsustainable, but it might open up other opportunities in the passing game as teams have to honor it. We'll see.

Previously the Chiefs were running decoys and sweeps with guys like AJ Jenkins and De'Anthony Thomas and well, Hill is a 2 sigma guy and those two are just not; what's a more credible threat. Those Jet Sweeps/PA rubs are going to stay around no matter what though. That's just a nice little wrinkle he brings. Really this is uncharted waters so the impact is just flat unknown, but Hill imo breaks a lot of stereotypical "gadget" rules once you get into 2 Sigma territory where he's just obviously more athletic than >97.9% of NFL players.

Also gonna copy paste this from an earlier post on the fantasy board as it's mostly applicable to the discussion as well



My concern really is the Chiefs no longer have a 3rd guy (unless you cheat and say Spencer Ware and that's a RB which has it's own problems) that can force defenses to adjust their coverage to them with Maclin being cut. What made me kind of interested in how the Chiefs passing game was going to look this year is it would have 3 passcatchers that can really truly cause problems for talented secondaries- now they're down to two and one of them is a TE.

As for the more immediate question of Is Tyreek Hill a #1 receiver: Maybe. May-be. Possibly. I do not know. I would bet he is by 2018. 2017? Seems ambitious. Looks promising, but the intermediate routes are a real big sticking point- can't ignore the sub 10 yards per catch.

I guess for me Tyreek the returner could easily finish top-3 all-time. Tyreek the receiver I don't ever see him being a true #1. I've watched him catch the football and it just doesn't look natural. Let's way too many passes get into his body and that just leads to lots of inconsistency. Yes he can improve in that area and especially then on his route running to become a better WR but to me as a WR he will be more of a #2/make people respect his speed and playmaking ability kind of guy. I really do think the Maclin cut is going to come back and bite them in such a tight division this year. I understand it for future decisions but seems like a move you make if you are punting the season to the future.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I guess for me Tyreek the returner could easily finish top-3 all-time. Tyreek the receiver I don't ever see him being a true #1. I've watched him catch the football and it just doesn't look natural. Let's way too many passes get into his body and that just leads to lots of inconsistency. Yes he can improve in that area and especially then on his route running to become a better WR but to me as a WR he will be more of a #2/make people respect his speed and playmaking ability kind of guy. I really do think the Maclin cut is going to come back and bite them in such a tight division this year. I understand it for future decisions but seems like a move you make if you are punting the season to the future.

He does look a bit clumsy catching the ball I must admit (he had a brutal drop on a slant he beat Harris pretty clean which probably was a TD for example) but he does track the ball very well in all actuality. That will be something to watch, I just feel comfortable betting on a guy who can track the ball to catch the football; even if it looks kind of ugly sometimes. Hill probably has the largest range of outcomes I can think of for a WR in the NFL this year. Most iterations seem pretty useful so I am happy with that, but the upside is very interesting.

As for the latter: Yeah, I am kind of in the mindset this is a punt/transition year. The FO pretty much said they'd rather see Demarcus Robinson on the field than Maclin. That doesn't make any sense for 2017, but maybe it does for 2018 if you had zero intention of seeing Maclin make it that far anyway which his contract always kind of implied. Maybe they make the playoffs anyway but it won't be because they put their best foot out there.

 

[cdumler7]

He does look a bit clumsy catching the ball I must admit (he had a brutal drop on a slant he beat Harris pretty clean which probably was a TD for example) but he does track the ball very well in all actuality. That will be something to watch, I just feel comfortable betting on a guy who can track the ball to catch the football; even if it looks kind of ugly sometimes. Hill probably has the largest range of outcomes I can think of for a WR in the NFL this year. Most iterations seem pretty useful so I am happy with that, but the upside is very interesting.

As for the latter: Yeah, I am kind of in the mindset this is a punt/transition year. The FO pretty much said they'd rather see Demarcus Robinson on the field than Maclin. That doesn't make any sense for 2017, but maybe it does for 2018 if you had zero intention of seeing Maclin make it that far anyway which his contract always kind of implied. Maybe they make the playoffs anyway but it won't be because they put their best foot out there.

He does have a great ability to track the ball. I think he can be a good WR in this league don't get me wrong. I'm just not sure I see a sure fire #1 WR that you can trust to make the big catch when you need one. I also do wonder if you have him as your #1 then what happens to his special teams snaps? AB has held up pretty well but that is also with them taking KR's away from him for the most part and at least the last 2 years limiting some of his work in the punt return area. So there is good and bad that comes with him taking over that kind of role for the team. And I will say that AB has been more of an anomaly when it comes to holding up at that size with such a big workload. Most of those guys start breaking down about 5 years into the NFL and we especially see them lose their speed.

Now I say all that and please understand I do think Hill is a special talent in this league. I hate that the Broncos have to play him twice a year and really that close game he pretty much won that game for the Chiefs with such an incredible individual effort all the way around. So I know they will continue to find ways to get him involved and he will find ways to make plays. He isn't just a one year wonder. He definitely though needs to add more to his game as a WR if he wants to see his game go to the next level. Teams will figure out how to game plan a bit better for those plays he has ran. IF he can add more then it opens up everything for the entire team.

 

[nebearsfan70]

Short and simple: His hype is exceeding his actual production.

He is not currently a very good receiver and the talk about him having 1500 yards is just over the top from what you can ask of him currently, imo. Hype is pretty premature for my liking. Make no mistake, I think he's damn good, I am just implying there needs to be some brakes for his hype train for at least right now. It's why I don't say out loud stuff like Tyreek Hill is the next Devin Hester, TY Hilton, Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson etc.

Pretty hard to overrate a RB though it seems like these days. He's probably the least overrated guy I had in my post, just my opinion.

Kinda difficult to overrate a 5th round pick, no? Especially a rookie RB? IDK, over 5 yards a carry behind a make-shift online?

Just wanted to know your rationale.