Mock Drafts

[Tubbs1518]

I didn't say he was whining because he didn't agree, I said he was whining because he was whining. I disagree with other people besides you on this board and never say they are whining just because we don't agree. He was whining, so I said it.

 

[cincygrad]

I didn't say he was whining because he didn't agree, I said he was whining because he was whining. I disagree with other people besides you on this board and never say they are whining just because we don't agree. He was whining, so I said it.

What in the hell was I whining about? I said we had a below average and disappointing offseason. Does negative opinion of player/team equal whining?

 

[cincygrad]

Jesus Christ, you'd think with the way people are freaking out we were saying he was the next Ed Reed.

It wouldn't be much of a stretch -- This is the same board that proclaims Kellen Moore to be as good as Drew Brees.

 

[Tubbs1518]

No, just the way you did it. I can say the exact same thing twice, and one can sound like whining and the other won't.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I said I thought he could be. Please give me some reasons on how they are that different.

 

[cincygrad]

I said I thought he could be. Please give me some reasons on how they are that different.

Given that I'm not paid to be a talent evaluator, I'll refrain from discussing mechanics, arm-strength, pocket-presence, etc...... What I can tell you is this- The year Brees came out, he was labeled the second best talent at the position in the draft (Vick was first) and he had a first round grade. Kellen Moore has been rated as the 10 (at best) prospect at quarterback in his class.

While the scouts aren't infallible when it comes to qb rankings (see Brady and Romo), they get it right more than they get it wrong -- First round quarterbacks still dominate this league.

Also, Drew Brees is going to put up numbers that are only equalled by a select-few superstars during his prime years. Saying that any 'prospect' can do this is silly.

 

[Tubbs1518]

I also said if put in the right situation, much like Brees is in the right situation, Moore had a chance of doing this. You take Brees out of NO and put him on most other teams, he doesn't put up those numbers. He didn't in SD.

 

[cincygrad]

Yeah he didn't put up 4K+ in yards in SD, but he had two very good seasons before moving onto New Orleans.

 

[cincygrad]

I also think it's ridiculous to assume that you could plug any quarterback into New Orleans system and expect Brees types of numbers.

 

[vancelot23]

He's still a strong tackler, but obviously not as fast as he was 5 years ago.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Did a little digging around and came up with two big factors that negate trying to compare moore to Brees:


Brees has a much, much better arm. Drew's 2001 scouting report gave him very high marks on his arm strength and overall accuracy in the short/medium game. Moore's marks, from what I've seen, are below average.

Brees also rated very highly as mobile in the pocket, and able to elude rushers and buy time. Moore graded negatively in mobility in the pocket and ability to elude rushers.

Height was/is about the same, but Brees was nearly a full 25lbs heavier coming into the NFL at 220-225. Moore is listed as 195-200.

Another negative was how long it takes Moore to get the ball out of his hand, as he has a wind-up motion, but it doesn't result in more velocity. Brees' report showed him to have a more compact throwing motion, but delieved maximum velocity.


Just what I read by doing a simple search. That doesn't mean that Moore can improve on some of those areas, such as the wind-up motion. If Moore ended up in the right offense, with high skill players at WR/TE and they spread the ball around/out....he could have a decent shot to put up good numbers. I don't think he'll approach Brees type status due to pure lack of arm strength (as noted in reports), and the ability to get the ball to the WR "NOW" at the NFL is a premium with how fast CB/DB/LB's can close on a WR at this level.

 

[Cincyfan78]

He's still a strong tackler, but obviously not as fast as he was 5 years ago.

And the whole point: You don't have to be AS FAST at Safety as you do at CB when you are mostly lining up right over guys. Safety, while does need some speed, needs to be able to read, react, and anticipate in an open space to make plays. I think Clements can do that. Yes, he's lost a step, but that step can help to be negated by not having him line-up 1-1 a ton at the safety position.

Again, it's all heresay.

 

[cincygrad]

Did a little digging around and came up with two big factors that negate trying to compare moore to Brees:


Brees has a much, much better arm. Drew's 2001 scouting report gave him very high marks on his arm strength and overall accuracy in the short/medium game. Moore's marks, from what I've seen, are below average.

Brees also rated very highly as mobile in the pocket, and able to elude rushers and buy time. Moore graded negatively in mobility in the pocket and ability to elude rushers.

Height was/is about the same, but Brees was nearly a full 25lbs heavier coming into the NFL at 220-225. Moore is listed as 195-200.

Another negative was how long it takes Moore to get the ball out of his hand, as he has a wind-up motion, but it doesn't result in more velocity. Brees' report showed him to have a more compact throwing motion, but delieved maximum velocity.


Just what I read by doing a simple search. That doesn't mean that Moore can improve on some of those areas, such as the wind-up motion. If Moore ended up in the right offense, with high skill players at WR/TE and they spread the ball around/out....he could have a decent shot to put up good numbers. I don't think he'll approach Brees type status due to pure lack of arm strength (as noted in reports), and the ability to get the ball to the WR "NOW" at the NFL is a premium with how fast CB/DB/LB's can close on a WR at this level.

Yes, but your entire argument is negated by the fact that Bleacher Report ran an argument comparing Moore to Brees. Bleacher Report has never been wrong.

 

[kramer1]

What in the hell was I whining about? I said we had a below average and disappointing offseason. Does negative opinion of player/team equal whining?

Yes, it does. See: Every reply to me from Jwill on the espn board for a decade.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yes, but your entire argument is negated by the fact that Bleacher Report ran an argument comparing Moore to Brees. Bleacher Report has never been wrong.

Well, that ends that!

 

[cincygrad]

Yes, it does. See: Every reply to me from Jwill on the espn board for a decade.

I thought you were bleeding, not whining.

 

[bengaldoug]

Over Clements? What is this a joke? Of course I'd rather have an actual safety - no matter how bad he is - than try to convert a backup CB to be my starting safety.

If it were that easy for a past-his-prime CB to convert to safety to prolong his career, it would be happening all the time. But it doesn't.

It's getting harder by the day to discuss anything with you, but I'll try again....I never said that it was that easy to convert any corner into a safety....I said that I thought Clements had the skill set to do it......and you're nuts if you would rather just stick Crocker back there again than try Clements......

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Did a little digging around and came up with two big factors that negate trying to compare moore to Brees:


Brees has a much, much better arm. Drew's 2001 scouting report gave him very high marks on his arm strength and overall accuracy in the short/medium game. Moore's marks, from what I've seen, are below average.

Brees also rated very highly as mobile in the pocket, and able to elude rushers and buy time. Moore graded negatively in mobility in the pocket and ability to elude rushers.

Height was/is about the same, but Brees was nearly a full 25lbs heavier coming into the NFL at 220-225. Moore is listed as 195-200.

Another negative was how long it takes Moore to get the ball out of his hand, as he has a wind-up motion, but it doesn't result in more velocity. Brees' report showed him to have a more compact throwing motion, but delieved maximum velocity.


Just what I read by doing a simple search. That doesn't mean that Moore can improve on some of those areas, such as the wind-up motion. If Moore ended up in the right offense, with high skill players at WR/TE and they spread the ball around/out....he could have a decent shot to put up good numbers. I don't think he'll approach Brees type status due to pure lack of arm strength (as noted in reports), and the ability to get the ball to the WR "NOW" at the NFL is a premium with how fast CB/DB/LB's can close on a WR at this level.

I know you are not talkign to me in regards comparing Moore to Brees, as I know I never did that, however, I think Moore would make a very good backup QB in this league. He is a strong leader, pretty good arm, is very accurate. He may even make a pretty decent starting quarterback someday in the league.

 

[flamingrey]

It's getting harder by the day to discuss anything with you, but I'll try again....I never said that it was that easy to convert any corner into a safety....I said that I thought Clements had the skill set to do it......and you're nuts if you would rather just stick Crocker back there again than try Clements......

I understood you the first time. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over.

There's nothing to try unless you think playing/switching is all about physical skill set. Clements has been reading defenses one way as a CB all his career. What/how safeties read and react to is different than CB's, and to become NFL caliber, it takes many years of learning and perfecting the ability.

 

[bengaldoug]

I understood you the first time. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over.

There's nothing to try unless you think playing/switching is all about physical skill set. Clements has been reading defenses one way as a CB all his career. What/how safeties read and react to is different than CB's, and to become NFL caliber, it takes many years of learning and perfecting the ability.

His experience and intelligence makes it worth a try in my opinion....you can't tell me he's not smart enough to look at the same play from the safety position and come to the right conclusion....Crocker has already proven he can't do it.....you either have good instincts or you don't.....Clements does, Crocker doesn't......