Michigan football is a fucking embarrassment

[ellupo]

Did you missed the past couple of years of recruiting? The last two classes Hoke pulled in were both top 10, including reeling in the top RB last year, and currently have commitment of one of the top 5 recuits of the 2014 class (Peppers) and is the strong lead for another (Hand).

Seems like they are having no trouble brining top level talent to Michigan, it's just still very young and raw at the moment.

Problem is you don't have that great of a coach to coach them.

Exactly, Michigan has the talent to easily beat Akron and UConn. They had trouble because of coaching not talent.

 

[jalopy]

Problem is you don't have that great of a coach to coach them.

I'm not sure that is a fair statement. This staff did a tremendous job in '11 with a very mediocre team.

I will say that this is the third year this staff has put an inferior product on the field. At some point there has to be some accountability.

 

[Sox33OSU]

I'm not sure that is a fair statement. This staff did a tremendous job in '11 with a very mediocre team.

I will say that this is the third year this staff has put an inferior product on the field. At some point there has to be some accountability.

Oh, come on now. You guys avoided Wisconsin, got smoked by MSU, lost to an average Iowa team and then lucked out getting to face a paper tiger VT team. That Michigan team was not any different than the 2012 team that went 8-5, except you had to face good teams.

 

[jalopy]

Oh, come on now. You guys avoided Wisconsin, got smoked by MSU, lost to an average Iowa team and then lucked out getting to face a paper tiger VT team. That Michigan team was not any different than the 2012 team that went 8-5, except you had to face good teams.

I notice you forgot to mention the crappy OSU team we beat.

I'm not sure what to make of this staff. As I mentioned, the overall quality of the team is very low but to pull the plug would put the program in a Notre Dame-like spiral. With the quality of recruits coming in the next two years, Hoke has until the end of 2015 to right the ship. The same cannot be said of his staff. Borges (OC) is likely gone after this year.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Hoke has been there 3 years, most of the guys should be his now. Will RR still be the excuse next year when all the guys are Hokes?

ellupo,

this is hoke's 3rd year -- the first year, because of the late hire, the recruiting class was hoke trying to salvage the players RR staff had received commitments from. last year was the 1st year a recruiting class that was hit played on the team. this year those players are sophomores.

starting for UM this year at FB, LG, RG, C, WR, both DE's, 2 LB's, both CB's and our nickel back are either Sophomore's or Freshman recruited by Hoke.

I can't imagine any teams in the top 25 playing more young players than UM. It has a lot to do with the mistakes, but it should help out the team in the future.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Oh, come on now. You guys avoided Wisconsin, got smoked by MSU, lost to an average Iowa team and then lucked out getting to face a paper tiger VT team. That Michigan team was not any different than the 2012 team that went 8-5, except you had to face good teams.

I'm sorry, you don't just luck out and go 11-2 and win a BCS bowl game. Michigan beat another team who also had 10+ wins. The major difference between 2011 and 2012 is that Denard stayed healthy throughout 2011. Once his elbow got hit and he went from being able to complete 50% of his passes to like 20%, then we had a problem. That problem was then limited because we switched Gardner back from WR but it was a little late at that point.

To some extent though, I haven't seen the progression I'd like to have seen. It seems like we're dealing with the same problem we were 3 years ago, youth and players from the wrong system.

As a side note, how did we "get smoked" by MSU? The game was 21 to 14 going into the last drive of the game upon which Denard through a pick 6. Hardly what I call getting smoked. Even the final score 28 to 14 does not qualify. 41-10 is getting smoked.

Also, I like how you skipped over the fact that Michigan did, in fact, "smoke" a ranked Nebraska team.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I notice you forgot to mention the crappy OSU team we beat.

I'm not sure what to make of this staff. As I mentioned, the overall quality of the team is very low but to pull the plug would put the program in a Notre Dame-like spiral. With the quality of recruits coming in the next two years, Hoke has until the end of 2015 to right the ship. The same cannot be said of his staff. Borges (OC) is likely gone after this year.

I would bet anything that Borges stays. Borges has been coaching with Hoke for quite some time and they're not going to fire him because some people are irrationally angry at his play calling. The fact is, the players aren't executing the plays. Gardner's turnovers are single handedly keeping teams in these games.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

This is the old - counting your chickens before it's hatched thing. OSU fans act like they have this in the bag. We honestly have no idea how this season plays out. For all we know, Michigan comes out of the bye week and looks like the team that beat ND. If that team shows up to play OSU, we certainly have a very good shot at winning that game. Let's not forget, OSU's defense has been anything but awesome so far and while their offense has looked good, their biggest came so far has been against a Cal team that won 3 games last year - and even that was a shootout.

 

[Sox33OSU]

I notice you forgot to mention the crappy OSU team we beat.

If you wanna gloat about beating an OSU team that lost it's Heisman-candidate QB and had some lameduck head coach that had no idea what was going on, be my guest. Just remember, you only won because of a Braxton Miller overthrow.

I'm sorry, you don't just luck out and go 11-2 and win a BCS bowl game. Michigan beat another team who also had 10+ wins. The major difference between 2011 and 2012 is that Denard stayed healthy throughout 2011. Once his elbow got hit and he went from being able to complete 50% of his passes to like 20%, then we had a problem. That problem was then limited because we switched Gardner back from WR but it was a little late at that point.

To some extent though, I haven't seen the progression I'd like to have seen. It seems like we're dealing with the same problem we were 3 years ago, youth and players from the wrong system.

As a side note, how did we "get smoked" by MSU? The game was 21 to 14 going into the last drive of the game upon which Denard through a pick 6. Hardly what I call getting smoked. Even the final score 28 to 14 does not qualify. 41-10 is getting smoked.

Also, I like how you skipped over the fact that Michigan did, in fact, "smoke" a ranked Nebraska team.

You guys unquestionably lucked out. Everything that could possibly go for you that season, did. You got to miss playing 2 of the other top 4 teams in the conference in Wisconsin and Penn State, got to play the worst OSU team in ages, played nobody in OOC, and got matched up with the worst team in BCS Bowl history. Nebraska was nothing that year. Their fans even admit that if not for a Braxton getting hurt we'd of blown them out at their home. Clearly MSU deserved to be in a BCS bowl over you but you got the nod because they had to play in the CCG, which gave them an extra loss. MSU had about 30% more yards than you and despite giving you 124 penalty yards they still doubled you up. Robinson looked like total crap while Cousins and Baker ripped Michigan up. Clearly when you look at how Michigan played last year and now how they've looked so far this year, you haven't been a BCS-caliber team.

 

[Sox33OSU]

This is the old - counting your chickens before it's hatched thing. OSU fans act like they have this in the bag. We honestly have no idea how this season plays out. For all we know, Michigan comes out of the bye week and looks like the team that beat ND. If that team shows up to play OSU, we certainly have a very good shot at winning that game. Let's not forget, OSU's defense has been anything but awesome so far and while their offense has looked good, their biggest came so far has been against a Cal team that won 3 games last year - and even that was a shootout.

Meh, we allowed 34 points to Cal on the road, would've only been 27 if our DB hadn't dropped a sure INT and deflected it right to a Cal WR. Sonny Dykes has proven to have a hell of an offensive prowess in his career (at La Tech last year they put up way more than 34 on a pretty good A&M defense and almost won), so I doubt OSU is the only team they score 34 on. Otherwise, our defense has given up 21 points. One thing is for sure, Cal is a far more talented offense than Akron, who was a delay of game penalty from putting up 31 and beating you in your own house.

There's no question we've looked better than Michigan so far this season. Your last 2 games are worse than anything I've seen OSU do in a while. This was supposed to be the year with no more RR excuses since most players were Hoke's and they knew his system and Gardner was gonna pick up where he left off last season. Congrats on beating a pretty mediocre-looking ND team, I guess. Akron and UConn are laughingstocks and both came way too close to beating you. If the roles were reversed, you'd be all over OSU's shit right now.

 

[ellupo]

ellupo,

this is hoke's 3rd year -- the first year, because of the late hire, the recruiting class was hoke trying to salvage the players RR staff had received commitments from. last year was the 1st year a recruiting class that was hit played on the team. this year those players are sophomores.

starting for UM this year at FB, LG, RG, C, WR, both DE's, 2 LB's, both CB's and our nickel back are either Sophomore's or Freshman recruited by Hoke.

I can't imagine any teams in the top 25 playing more young players than UM. It has a lot to do with the mistakes, but it should help out the team in the future.

This is Meyers 2ns year and he has only 1 returning started on the front 7.

This is a depth chart for tOSU. Check out how many So. and Fr. there are.
Ohio State releases first depth chart for 2013 football season | cleveland.com


My point is Hoke has 3 years of his guys and next year will be 4 years. After this year there is not blaming RR, it is all Hoke.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

This is Meyers 2ns year and he has only 1 returning started on the front 7.

This is a depth chart for tOSU. Check out how many So. and Fr. there are.
Ohio State releases first depth chart for 2013 football season | cleveland.com


My point is Hoke has 3 years of his guys and next year will be 4 years. After this year there is not blaming RR, it is all Hoke.

But Meyer didn't have to clean out the Rich Rod talent (or lack thereof). Meyer walked into a program that was only 1 year removed from the "heights" of the Jim Tressel years, while Hoke walked into a program they just had it's three worst years in the programs history. So your comparrison is a false equivalency at best.

 

[ellupo]

But Meyer didn't have to clean out the Rich Rod talent (or lack thereof). Meyer walked into a program that was only 1 year removed from the "heights" of the Jim Tressel years, while Hoke walked into a program they just had it's three worst years in the programs history. So your comparrison is a false equivalency at best.

If that is true then why are so many Fr. and So. playing? Those are Meyer guys not Tressel guys. If Tressel left it so great then there would be less underclassmen playing. It is the same for Hoke, he has had 3 years to recruit and any that are Fr. to Jr. should be his guys.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

If that is true then why are so many Fr. and So. playing? Those are Meyer guys not Tressel guys. If Tressel left it so great then there would be less underclassmen playing. It is the same for Hoke, he has had 3 years to recruit and any that are Fr. to Jr. should be his guys.

ellupo -- what part of Hoke being hired so late by UM that he didn't get to recruit his first year. he basically just tried to convince the players who were at michigan to stay and convince those who had committed to hold true to their commitment.

The players who are Freshman and Sophomores are from the TWO recruiting classes Hoke has brought in.

Any player that is a junior was recruited by Rich Rod and coached by Hoke his first year.

 

[ellupo]

ellupo -- what part of Hoke being hired so late by UM that he didn't get to recruit his first year. he basically just tried to convince the players who were at michigan to stay and convince those who had committed to hold true to their commitment.

The players who are Freshman and Sophomores are from the TWO recruiting classes Hoke has brought in.

Any player that is a junior was recruited by Rich Rod and coached by Hoke his first year.

Meyer has many Fr. and So. playing from his TWO recruiting classes. If we give Hoke a pass on the first year then I do not see much difference.

 

[Sox33OSU]

ellupo -- what part of Hoke being hired so late by UM that he didn't get to recruit his first year. he basically just tried to convince the players who were at michigan to stay and convince those who had committed to hold true to their commitment.

The players who are Freshman and Sophomores are from the TWO recruiting classes Hoke has brought in.

Any player that is a junior was recruited by Rich Rod and coached by Hoke his first year.

Urban got hired in late November and turned a fringe top-25 OSU recruiting class into a top 3 class. Excuses are for losers.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

If that is true then why are so many Fr. and So. playing? Those are Meyer guys not Tressel guys. If Tressel left it so great then there would be less underclassmen playing. It is the same for Hoke, he has had 3 years to recruit and any that are Fr. to Jr. should be his guys.

Yeah, but look at Ohio States O-line:
LT - Jack Mewhort, Sr
LG – Andrew Norwell, Sr.
C – Corey Linsley, Sr.
RG – Marcus Hall, Sr.
RT – Taylor Decker, So.

How many how Michigan's problems go away if they had good O-Line play?

And then look at the skill guys:
QB – Braxton Miller, Jr.
RB – Jordan Hall, Sr.
WR – Corey Brown, Sr.
WR – Evan Spencer, Jr.
H-back – Chris Fields, Sr.

Where are all those freshmen and sophmores?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

This is Meyers 2ns year and he has only 1 returning started on the front 7.

This is a depth chart for tOSU. Check out how many So. and Fr. there are.
Ohio State releases first depth chart for 2013 football season | cleveland.com


My point is Hoke has 3 years of his guys and next year will be 4 years. After this year there is not blaming RR, it is all Hoke.

Meyers didn't take over a team who was running a completely different offense. Rich Rod wanted all his RBs to be 180 lbs and really fast. He wanted his OL to be around 280-290. His WRs were all 170 little guys who were quick, so they could run the bubble screens over and over.

Rich Rod ran a 2-5 defense for whatever reason and wanted undersized LBs who could run, because that worked in the Big East.

Hoke runs a pro style offense, but has changed his style to fit the QBs he had/has on the roster. Al Borges the offensive coordinator runs a pro style offense, but has had to change because of the personnel on the team.

So other than taking over a team who didn't have the personnel to play the offense or defense Hoke wants -- I'd say the cupboard was pretty bare. Hell -- Hoke loves using his TE's and UM didn't even have a TE on the roster for him, as they are rarely used in Rich Rod's system.

Urban Meyer, on the other hand, is a coach who wants to run the spread with a dual option QB and took over a team with one of the best dual threat QBs in the country. He was also stacked at the skill positions too.

The one area he had to recruit was the DLine and he has done that.

The two coaches came into two totally different scenarios. Both coaches came into spread offenses with running QBs, but one coach would much rather run a pro style offense, but doesn't have the personnel to do so yet.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Urban got hired in late November and turned a fringe top-25 OSU recruiting class into a top 3 class. Excuses are for losers.

utter stupidity -- take a look at where Rich Rod's recruiting classes have ranked over his career. he goes after players who fit HIS way of doing things. he doesn't go after 5 star recruits, he goes after fast, undersized guys who can run his scheme.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Yeah, but look at Ohio States O-line:
LT - Jack Mewhort, Sr
LG – Andrew Norwell, Sr.
C – Corey Linsley, Sr.
RG – Marcus Hall, Sr.
RT – Taylor Decker, So.

How many how Michigan's problems go away if they had good O-Line play?

And then look at the skill guys:
QB – Braxton Miller, Jr.
RB – Jordan Hall, Sr.
WR – Corey Brown, Sr.
WR – Evan Spencer, Jr.
H-back – Chris Fields, Sr.

Where are all those freshmen and sophmores?

And Michigan has like 6 underclassmen starting out of 22, so it's not that bad, dude.