Michigan football is a fucking embarrassment

[ellupo]

Yeah, but look at Ohio States O-line:
LT - Jack Mewhort, Sr
LG – Andrew Norwell, Sr.
C – Corey Linsley, Sr.
RG – Marcus Hall, Sr.
RT – Taylor Decker, So.

How many how Michigan's problems go away if they had good O-Line play?

And then look at the skill guys:
QB – Braxton Miller, Jr.
RB – Jordan Hall, Sr.
WR – Corey Brown, Sr.
WR – Evan Spencer, Jr.
H-back – Chris Fields, Sr.

Where are all those freshmen and sophmores?

I agree the O was better, more on the D. I guess Meyer was able to take the guys who had the worst year in Buckeye football in 100 years and turn them around. That is what a good coach does.
If Hoke is a good coach he would be doing the same.

 

[Sox33OSU]

utter stupidity -- take a look at where Rich Rod's recruiting classes have ranked over his career. he goes after players who fit HIS way of doing things. he doesn't go after 5 star recruits, he goes after fast, undersized guys who can run his scheme.

Your 2008 class was littered with 4 star talent. Guys like Roundtree, Mike Martin, Elliott Mealer, Kevin Koger, JT Floyd were pretty good guys for you last I checked. 2009, well I'd say guys like Denard, Taylor Lewan, Will Campbell, Craig Roh, Anthony LaLota, Jeremy Gallon, and Fitz Touissaint have worked out. 2010 saw you bring in guys like Jibreel Black, Jake Ryan, Drew Dileo and Devin Gardner, who last I checked are doing alright. There are other guys that aren't huge names who are still playing for you as well but just aren't superstars (like on every team). This excuse is pathetic.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

I agree the O was better, more on the D. I guess Meyer was able to take the guys who had the worst year in Buckeye football in 100 years and turn them around. That is what a good coach does.
If Hoke is a good coach he would be doing the same.

And he did! Consider the defense 2010 (Rich Rod's last year) Michigan had one of the worst defenses in the country, 2011 (Hoke's first) Michigan had one of the best!

The three years prior to Hoke's arrival 3-9, 5-7, and 7-6 (the worst three years Michigan's history since 1934-1936). Hoke's first year, 11-2! What else can you ask from the guy?

So he hit a rough patch, you know what, that happens to even the best of them. The true test will be how he responds. Thankfully he has two weeks to figure shit out and at the end of the day team 134 is still 4-0. If Hoke corrects what needs to corrected and goes on to have a great remainder of the season, those last two games will be little more than a footnote.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

Your 2008 class was littered with 4 star talent. Guys like Roundtree, Mike Martin, Elliott Mealer, Kevin Koger, JT Floyd were pretty good guys for you last I checked. 2009, well I'd say guys like Denard, Taylor Lewan, Will Campbell, Craig Roh, Anthony LaLota, Jeremy Gallon, and Fitz Touissaint have worked out. 2010 saw you bring in guys like Jibreel Black, Jake Ryan, Drew Dileo and Devin Gardner, who last I checked are doing alright. There are other guys that aren't huge names who are still playing for you as well but just aren't superstars (like on every team). This excuse is pathetic.

Notice something missing from that list of players you gave, outside of Lewan (which by all rights should have left for the NFL last year) there is a void of current O-linemen, which is really the root of all of Michigan's troubles.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

And Michigan has like 6 underclassmen starting out of 22, so it's not that bad, dude.

In key positions, namely the O-line. If we had better play from the interior (half of those 6 underclassman) things would probably be different. Sometimes it isn't so much the numbers, but were they are located. For example, back in 2004 Michigan had a true freshmen starting at QB, Chad Henne, and he had a great year. Of course it helped that he had Braylon Edwards to throw to and a fairly seasoned line protecting him. But when the inexperience is concentrated into such a key aspect, it hurts a bit more if they were more spread out.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Notice something missing from that list of players you gave, outside of Lewan (which by all rights should have left for the NFL last year) there is a void of current O-linemen, which is really the root of all of Michigan's troubles.

In key positions, namely the O-line. If we had better play from the interior (half of those 6 underclassman) things would probably be different. Sometimes it isn't so much the numbers, but were they are located. For example, back in 2004 Michigan had a true freshmen starting at QB, Chad Henne, and he had a great year. Of course it helped that he had Braylon Edwards to throw to and a fairly seasoned line protecting him. But when the inexperience is concentrated into such a key aspect, it hurts a bit more if they were more spread out.

With all due respect, what great offensive linemen have come from Ohio State recently? We have upper-classmen, sure, but they aren't super stars by any means. It's all in how you coach them. Hoke has 3 of his recruiting classes there, you're telling me he isn't able to pull out any offensive linemen from that? He only has 4 of them to deal with, as well, since Lewan is there.

 

[ellupo]

And he did! Consider the defense 2010 (Rich Rod's last year) Michigan had one of the worst defenses in the country, 2011 (Hoke's first) Michigan had one of the best!

The three years prior to Hoke's arrival 3-9, 5-7, and 7-6 (the worst three years Michigan's history since 1934-1936). Hoke's first year, 11-2! What else can you ask from the guy?

So he hit a rough patch, you know what, that happens to even the best of them. The true test will be how he responds. Thankfully he has two weeks to figure shit out and at the end of the day team 134 is still 4-0. If Hoke corrects what needs to corrected and goes on to have a great remainder of the season, those last two games will be little more than a footnote.

So he did well with RR guys cant with his own? Hoke had one of the best D in the country? When did that happen?

Barely beating Akron, ok you can say they were not focused. However when they followed that up with the UConn game, that is coaching. That's all there is to that. Hoke should have had the problems fixed after Arkon.

 

[Sox33OSU]

So he did well with RR guys cant with his own? Hoke had one of the best D in the country? When did that happen?

Barely beating Akron, ok you can say they were not focused. However when they followed that up with the UConn game, that is coaching. That's all there is to that. Hoke should have had the problems fixed after Arkon.

Bingo.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

With all due respect, what great offensive linemen have come from Ohio State recently? We have upper-classmen, sure, but they aren't super stars by any means. It's all in how you coach them. Hoke has 3 of his recruiting classes there, you're telling me he isn't able to pull out any offensive linemen from that? He only has 4 of them to deal with, as well, since Lewan is there.

Did I say Ohio State have "great" offensive linemen? No, no I did not. But they do have a solid unit that is giving them good play.

The first class we really can't attribute to Hoke, given how late in the year the hire was. And in his first full class, 2012 he got Kalis (a 5* came from), and in the 2013 class he got 5 4*'s. The thing with lineman though is that you usally redshirt them (like they did with Kalis) so that they have at least one year in the strength and condition program before they hit the field. And and even then, you like the work them in with a more senior overall line, get them some non-starter snaps then against lesser teams a few starter before they become the full-time starter. Kalis started his career as the full time starter.

No doubt Hoke made the O-line a priority he's first two full recruiting classes (along with the D-line), but given the lack of depth it is going to take some time for that investment to pay off.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

So he did well with RR guys cant with his own? Hoke had one of the best D in the country? When did that happen?

Barely beating Akron, ok you can say they were not focused. However when they followed that up with the UConn game, that is coaching. That's all there is to that. Hoke should have had the problems fixed after Arkon.

Now that is a fair question, I am stratching my head over the poor D-line play. But given those first two years I am willing to give a little latitude. Let's just wait and see what kind adjustments get made coming out of the bye-week.

Though I can tell you defense as a whole will pick up once Jake Ryan gets back on the field.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I guess Meyer was able to take the guys who had the worst year in Buckeye football in 100 years and turn them around. That is what a good coach does.
If Hoke is a good coach he would be doing the same.

UM was 7-6 the year before Hoke was hired. His first year -- UM was 11-2 and won a BCS game, as well as beat Ohio State.

Rich Rod was 15-22 in 3 years at UM. Brady Hoke has taken over a roster filled with Rich Rod recruits and in 2 years and 4 games -- he is 19-7. I'd say that is a pretty good turnaround.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Did I say Ohio State have "great" offensive linemen? No, no I did not. But they do have a solid unit that is giving them good play.

The first class we really can't attribute to Hoke, given how late in the year the hire was. And in his first full class, 2012 he got Kalis (a 5* came from), and in the 2013 class he got 5 4*'s. The thing with lineman though is that you usally redshirt them (like they did with Kalis) so that they have at least one year in the strength and condition program before they hit the field. And and even then, you like the work them in with a more senior overall line, get them some non-starter snaps then against lesser teams a few starter before they become the full-time starter. Kalis started his career as the full time starter.

No doubt Hoke made the O-line a priority he's first two full recruiting classes (along with the D-line), but given the lack of depth it is going to take some time for that investment to pay off.

What does your OL have to do with Akron driving the ball all over your defense though? And are you really saying that, with the talent on your OL, you couldn't muster more than 24 points against a UConn team who gave up 32 to Maryland and 33 to Towson??

 

[Sox33OSU]

UM was 7-6 the year before Hoke was hired. His first year -- UM was 11-2 and won a BCS game, as well as beat Ohio State.

Rich Rod was 15-22 in 3 years at UM. Brady Hoke has taken over a roster filled with Rich Rod recruits and in 2 years and 4 games -- he is 19-7. I'd say that is a pretty good turnaround.

And his second year, you went 8-5. This year you're 4-0 but have needed a ton of late-game heroics to beat 2 absolute scrubs in Akron and UConn. This is not positive progression, and in fact I'd say things are getting worse. If you play even remotely close to how you've looked in the last 2 games for the remainder of the year, you may be needing some luck to make a bowl game.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

And his second year, you went 8-5. This year you're 4-0 but have needed a ton of late-game heroics to beat 2 absolute scrubs in Akron and UConn. This is not positive progression, and in fact I'd say things are getting worse. If you play even remotely close to how you've looked in the last 2 games for the remainder of the year, you may be needing some luck to make a bowl game.

Everyone predicted that 8-5 record because of an increase in schedule difficulty, and most of those loses could have very easily been wins.

And don't forget, Ohio State had it's shares of struggles last year. The last two games were troublesome yes, but no reason to give up on the rest of the seaon.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Everyone predicted that 8-5 record because of an increase in schedule difficulty, and most of those loses could have very easily been wins.

And don't forget, Ohio State had it's shares of struggles last year. The last two games were troublesome yes, but no reason to give up on the rest of the seaon.

We had our share of struggles that we won. Would we have lot to Bama? Yeah. We killed Nebraska, we beat you, and we matched up really well vs. ND and SCar. Even the struggles we had last year, though, weren't against teams as bad as UConn and Akron, and last year was also every single player's first year in a brand new system with an almost brand new coaching staff. The fact that we went unbeaten is incredibly impressive.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

last year was also every single player's first year in a brand new system with an almost brand new coaching staff.

last year was the 1st recruiting class for brady hoke. i don't think we are going to see exactly what kind of team UM can be, until they are done with the running QBs, as that isn't what Hoke or Al Borges (OC) are used to running.

if Devin Gardner doesn't take care of the ball -- I have a feeling we will be seeing Shane Morris, sooner rather than later.

to be 19-7 after taking over a team whose record was 15-22 the previous 3 years is pretty impressive. UM had some quality recruits during Rich Rod's tenure, but he recruited personnel for a completely different type of offense and defense than Hoke wants to run.

that is why so many of the starters for UM are Freshman and Sophomore's and almost 75% of the team are underclassmen.

 

[Sox33OSU]

last year was the 1st recruiting class for brady hoke. i don't think we are going to see exactly what kind of team UM can be, until they are done with the running QBs, as that isn't what Hoke or Al Borges (OC) are used to running.

if Devin Gardner doesn't take care of the ball -- I have a feeling we will be seeing Shane Morris, sooner rather than later.

to be 19-7 after taking over a team whose record was 15-22 the previous 3 years is pretty impressive. UM had some quality recruits during Rich Rod's tenure, but he recruited personnel for a completely different type of offense and defense than Hoke wants to run.

that is why so many of the starters for UM are Freshman and Sophomore's and almost 75% of the team are underclassmen.

Gardner wasn't a running QB last year at season's end. He looked pretty impressive for the most part. What happened?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

This is not positive progression, and in fact I'd say things are getting worse.

Really? Going from 15-22 the previous 3 years to 23-7 over the last 2 years and 4 games is a negative progression?

It won't be till 2015 until the UM roster will be all Brady Hoke recruits. Hoke didn't take over a roster filled with pro style players -- he took over a roster of undersized players, both on the OL and at the skilled positions. He has to completely retool everything on offense.

Same goes with the defense -- Rich Rod wanted undersized fast players all over the place to play his assbackwards defense that worked in the Big East. Guess where it didn't work? The Big Ten. Teams just steamrolled us on the ground.

Hoke had to completely retool the defense -- yet while doing so, UM has won a BCS game and they are 23-7 over that time period. I'd say that is doing alright.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Gardner wasn't a running QB last year at season's end. He looked pretty impressive for the most part. What happened?

Gardner was the top dual threat QB in the nation coming out of high school. I can't tell you what happened to him, because he hasn't been a starter until now for a reason. He throws the ball better than Denard, but he makes WAAAAAAY too many turnovers.

UM has 8 turnovers the last two games and you can put the blame on 7 of the 8 on Gardner. He is either REALLY good (the ND game) or REALLY bad (the last two games).

Doesn't help that the only normal sized WR he had that was supposed to start is out for the year with an injury -- so instead, he has the Rich Rod recruits, who as I've stated, are undersized little guys, so you don't have much room for error on your throws.

Hopefully -- Gardner has learned from the last two games and can get back to being the guy we have seem him in at certain times, but I'm not holding my breathe. Inconsistent is the best way to describe the last two QBs at UM.

 

[GoBlueNavyNuke]

We had our share of struggles that we won. Would we have lot to Bama? Yeah. We killed Nebraska, we beat you, and we matched up really well vs. ND and SCar. Even the struggles we had last year, though, weren't against teams as bad as UConn and Akron, and last year was also every single player's first year in a brand new system with an almost brand new coaching staff. The fact that we went unbeaten is incredibly impressive.

And in cased you missed it, Michigan despite the struggles, won against Akron and UConn. Ugly yes, but still a W. So before we write Michigan off, how about you let them play the games.