Michael Jordan is a hypocrite

[CitySushi]

That 3rd ring with Shaq was pretty equal IMO. What does that matter though? Lebron never played with someone as effective as prime Shaq, but did Kobe ever have a 2nd teammate as good as prime Wade or prime Bosh? Maybe Gasol?

Kobe and Lebron are comparable, skills wise. Kobe has the killer drive, and Lebron has the physicality edge. Kobe, especially post Shaq, won with less and with the outcome resting on his shoulders. Kobe's two losses were to a very strong Celtics (proto-super) team and a hard-working Pistons team that caught the Lakers as they lost their cohesiveness. Lebron has been there more (advantage), but has lost more as well, including to the worst championship team in recent memory (Mavs). When splitting hairs, MVPs and ring counts come into play. They split those advantages as well. Rings are real though (especially for the main impact players), and MVPs are voted on (popularity contest). Both Kobe and Lebron should have more MVPs than they do, but voters hold grudges and get bored easily.

I disagree on them being comparable. They affect the games in different ways and are used differently. Kobe's killer drive came from him wanting the ball and being able to take as many shots as necessary for him to get the win. Kobe was born to put the ball in the basket.

Here's an example of why they are not the same. With 10 seconds left on the clock, game on the line, and the ball in their hands, Kobe is 95% of the time is going to take a shot. Maybe even a higher percentage than that. Lebron, will make the right play to the right guy. If that's him taking the ball to the basket and scoring or pulling up for a shot, then that's what it will be. If it's kicking out to a teammate to rely on them to hit the shot, he's going to do that too. He's going to make the right basketball play within that situation.

It's the same with Magic. 10 seconds with the game on the line and the ball in his hands, what is he going to do with the ball? Or what about Jordan?

The way the guys impact the game matters in how they are compared. They don't affect the game in the same way. Kobe's best way to affect the team is to score, then command a double team and then kick out to teammates. Lebron is a true facilitator in that you put the ball in his hands in a pick and roll and let him make the right play.

Lebron could have lead the NBA in scoring, assist or rebounding any of the last 10 years if that's simply what he wanted. But he wants to make the right play. He's more reliant upon his teammates to do their jobs than say Kobe is, much like Magic. But that to me is a bonus.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Stephen A knows sports in general. But he doesn't know basketball as well as some on here. That is fact.

He's also probably 10 times more entertaining (for better or worse) than any of us would be. Look at ESPN and tell me how many of their current employees are there because of their in-depth analysis. They're all entertainers.

 

[tlance]

I don't know where you are trying to go with this, but it isn't working.

First, you bring Stephen A. into the conversation after I made a comment about NBA analysts essentially inferring he isn't that good. Now, you are doing a 180 and implying he knows more than people on here because "it is his job".

So which is it? Do you think he knows his stuff or he doesn't? Or are you just going to keep playing whatever side you can to keep this going?

Stephen A is paid to have big opinions and express them loudly. His knowledge is not on par with anybody who has spent significant time playing/coaching at a high level. Not even close.

 

[tlance]

He's also probably 10 times more entertaining (for better or worse) than any of us would be. Look at ESPN and tell me how many of their current employees are there because of their in-depth analysis. They're all entertainers.

No question about that. 100% right. I would be terrible on TV.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I don't know where you are trying to go with this, but it isn't working.

First, you bring Stephen A. into the conversation after I made a comment about NBA analysts essentially inferring he isn't that good. Now, you are doing a 180 and implying he knows more than people on here because "it is his job".

So which is it? Do you think he knows his stuff or he doesn't? Or are you just going to keep playing whatever side you can to keep this going?

Stephen A is paid to have big opinions and express them loudly. His knowledge is not on par with anybody who has spent significant time playing/coaching at a high level. Not even close.

Where did I "imply" anything. I was asking you the questions. You're the one making the ridiculous statement that guys like Wiggy and Todd know more about basketball than guys that make millions of dollars discussing the matter on media outlets.

And yes, I know you said "some" people on here know more about basketball than Stephen A. I was merely using Todd and Wiggy as "some" of the people on here.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

His knowledge is not on par with anybody who has spent significant time playing/coaching at a high level. Not even close.

And again you're confusing this discussion. We're on opinion, not knowledge.

 

[Vyle203]

He's also probably 10 times more entertaining (for better or worse) than any of us would be.

In a Lavar Ball kinda way.

 

[flyerhawk]

Stephen A is paid to have big opinions and express them loudly. His knowledge is not on par with anybody who has spent significant time playing/coaching at a high level. Not even close.

Stephen A isn't asked to provide analysis of the game. He's paid to get inside information from players about the game. And he has a TON of information that none of us have access to.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Kobe played mostly tomato cans compared to Lebron.

The 2017 Warriors, 2016 Warriors, 2015 Warriors, 2014 Spurs, 2013 Spurs, and 2007 Spurs would have smoked any team Kobe played....with the possible exception of the 2008 Celtics.

Lebron had the unfortunate luck to play some of the all-time peak greatest Warriors and Spurs teams.

Rings are important, but beating up on the 2002 Nets is not exactly chest thump worthy.

 

[tlance]

Where did I "imply" anything. I was asking you the questions. You're the one making the ridiculous statement that guys like Wiggy and Todd know more about basketball than guys that make millions of dollars discussing the matter on media outlets.

And yes, I know you said "some" people on here know more about basketball than Stephen A. I was merely using Todd and Wiggy as "some" of the people on here.

Really? So you are going to pick two of the worst posters on the board? Nicely done.

 

[tlance]

Stephen A isn't asked to provide analysis of the game. He's paid to get inside information from players about the game. And he has a TON of information that none of us have access to.

I agree. He is a journalist. That is why his basketball knowledge is what it is.

You need to direct this to @Shaqdaddy11. She tried to lump Stephen A. In with NBA analysts. He isn't that at all.

 

[trojanfan12]

By people 25 and under? I don't think it's even close to unanimous.

Take a look at this:

Vote: Where does LeBron rank among best ever?

Once you vote and put your sex and age, you can see the breakdowns.

24% of all people rank him #1. Unfortunately, they don't show the percentage numbers by age, but you can see a big chunk of people 18-24 consider him to be the best all-time. Eyeballing it, it's probably somewhere between 30-33% that rank him #1 in that age group.

lol So 76% of all people don't rank Lebron #1 and about 70% of people 18-24 don't rank him #1 and you think that's a lot of people thinking Lebron is #1?

 

[trojanfan12]

A lot of stupid people must have voted in that poll.

lol "It's not me. It's everyone else that's crazy." - knowyourenemy

 

[trojanfan12]

Well explain why Kobe has like 10% of people who rank him as the best all-time and only like 40% who even put him in the top 5 but LeBron has over 50% who put him in the top 2.

They didn't ask enough stupid people?

 

[trojanfan12]

We can just use facts if you want and the only objective evidence that will support your opinion will be "5 rings."

Not correct.

 

[trojanfan12]

The point I was trying to bring across, before you got your panties in a bunch, was that popularity eventually dictates who is known to be the better player.

This is true.

 

[trojanfan12]

Here's the thing for me about the 5 - 3 argument for rings.

Kobe wasn't even the best player on his team for 3 of his rings.

Do I really need to destroy this argument again? It'll only be like the 5th time.

 

[trojanfan12]

Lastly, comparing Kobe and Lebron is comparing apples and oranges. It would be better to compare Lebron to Magic/Oscar and Kobe to Jordan. Cross comparing them doesn't work because their skill sets are entirely different.

This is true. However, when talking about "best of all time" you have to make apples to oranges comparisons to an extent because it involves players at all positions.

You would never, for example, compare Kareem to Kobe, MJ, Lebron or Magic, other than in a discussion ranking the best of all time...which is kinda what this is.

 

[trojanfan12]

I disagree on them being comparable. They affect the games in different ways and are used differently. Kobe's killer drive came from him wanting the ball and being able to take as many shots as necessary for him to get the win. Kobe was born to put the ball in the basket.

Here's an example of why they are not the same. With 10 seconds left on the clock, game on the line, and the ball in their hands, Kobe is 95% of the time is going to take a shot. Maybe even a higher percentage than that. Lebron, will make the right play to the right guy. If that's him taking the ball to the basket and scoring or pulling up for a shot, then that's what it will be. If it's kicking out to a teammate to rely on them to hit the shot, he's going to do that too. He's going to make the right basketball play within that situation.

It's the same with Magic. 10 seconds with the game on the line and the ball in his hands, what is he going to do with the ball? Or what about Jordan?

The way the guys impact the game matters in how they are compared. They don't affect the game in the same way. Kobe's best way to affect the team is to score, then command a double team and then kick out to teammates. Lebron is a true facilitator in that you put the ball in his hands in a pick and roll and let him make the right play.

Lebron could have lead the NBA in scoring, assist or rebounding any of the last 10 years if that's simply what he wanted. But he wants to make the right play. He's more reliant upon his teammates to do their jobs than say Kobe is, much like Magic. But that to me is a bonus.

You're debating a completely different issue.

 

[trojanfan12]

Kobe played mostly tomato cans compared to Lebron.

The Spurs were tomato cans? Because I seem to recall Kobe having to go through them to get to the tomato cans he beat in the finals.

How about the Kings back then? Also tomato cans?

I'd say that several of the teams that Kobe had to get through to make the finals would pretty well beat the hell out of Lebron's finals teams. In fact, if memory serves, one of them did.