Michael Jordan is a hypocrite

[trojanfan12]

Rings are important, but beating up on the 2002 Nets is not exactly chest thump worthy.

Perhaps not. But going through the Blazers, Spurs and Kings to get there certainly is.

 

[tlance]

The Spurs were tomato cans? Because I seem to recall Kobe having to go through them to get to the tomato cans he beat in the finals.

How about the Kings back then? Also tomato cans?

I'd say that several of the teams that Kobe had to get through to make the finals would pretty well beat the hell out of Lebron's finals teams. In fact, if memory serves, one of them did.

Nobody said that they were. However, the point is that the Lakers also lost to the Spurs more than once. That is part of why the Finals record thing is garbage. Kobe's toughest opposition always came before the Finals. By the time he got there it was basically a coronation. The exact opposite is true for LeBron.

 

[trojanfan12]

Nobody said that they were. However, the point is that the Lakers also lost to the Spurs more than once. That is part of why the Finals record thing is garbage. Kobe's toughest opposition always came before the Finals. By the time he got there it was basically a coronation. The exact opposite is true for LeBron.

Point is, whether it was in the earlier rounds or the finals. Kobe faced opposition equal to or better than what Lebron has faced in the finals.

In fact, you could say that Kobe actually had a tougher road because he had to go through 2 great teams to get to the finals. Whereas Lebron didn't see any great teams until the finals.

So this crap about Lebron having a tougher road simply isn't true.

 

[richig07]

The fact that this thread has seven pages of replies is amazing.

Do you really think this was some matter of fact, thought out statement by Jordan? Or... do you think he was just asked this in passing, and said the first thing that came to mind? I'll go with the latter.

Also, this doesn't even mean his barometer of ranking players is based entirely on championships. It could just be his way of separating a near dead-lock between two players very close in terms of greatness.

 

[msgkings322]

The fact that this thread has seven pages of replies is amazing.

Do you really think this was some matter of fact, thought out statement by Jordan? Or... do you think he was just asked this in passing, and said the first thing that came to mind? I'll go with the ladder.

Also, this doesn't even mean his barometer of ranking players is based entirely on championships. It could just be his way of separating a near dead-lock between two players very close in terms of greatness.

 

[richig07]

Lol... Whoops. Meant "latter"

 

[msgkings322]

Lol... Whoops. Meant "latter"

 

[trojanfan12]

 

[knowyourenemy]

The fact that this thread has seven pages of replies is amazing.

Do you really think this was some matter of fact, thought out statement by Jordan? Or... do you think he was just asked this in passing, and said the first thing that came to mind? I'll go with the latter.

Also, this doesn't even mean his barometer of ranking players is based entirely on championships. It could just be his way of separating a near dead-lock between two players very close in terms of greatness.

That's the thing -- LeBron and Kobe aren't in a near deadlock. Maybe to Jordan, since everyone beneath him probably seems about the same.

 

[knowyourenemy]

lol So 76% of all people don't rank Lebron #1 and about 70% of people 18-24 don't rank him #1 and you think that's a lot of people thinking Lebron is #1?

I said a significant amount and yes, 30+ percent is significant, especially given that he could potentially play for another decade.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Not correct.

Cool. Let's hear all these facts that support Kobe being ranked above LeBron.

 

[richig07]

That's the thing -- LeBron and Kobe aren't in a near deadlock. Maybe to Jordan, since everyone beneath him probably seems about the same.

I think if you asked around the league, the consensus would be that they're very close.

These arguments are so fucking stupid... Jesus

 

[tlance]

Point is, whether it was in the earlier rounds or the finals. Kobe faced opposition equal to or better than what Lebron has faced in the finals.

In fact, you could say that Kobe actually had a tougher road because he had to go through 2 great teams to get to the finals. Whereas Lebron didn't see any great teams until the finals.

So this crap about Lebron having a tougher road simply isn't true.

The road might not have been tougher overall, but that isn't the point. The point is that they both lost to very good teams. LeBron faced those teams in the Finals and Kobe faced them before. That is why you can't compare Finals record. Kobe faced teams like the Nets while LeBron is playing the freaking Warriors

You have to look at the whole playoff resume. EVERY loss counts. Not just the Finals losses like the LeBron detractors want to make people believe.

And no, Kobe never faced a team equal to the current Warriors.

 

[logic]

These arguments are so fucking stupid... Jesus

You do realize that you are on a sports message board, right?

 

[trojanfan12]

I said a significant amount and yes, 30+ percent is significant, especially given that he could potentially play for another decade.

30% ain't all that significant. Lebron ain't playing until he's 43.

 

[trojanfan12]

Cool. Let's hear all these facts that support Kobe being ranked above LeBron.

I already posted them.

 

[trojanfan12]

The road might not have been tougher overall, but that isn't the point.

No, the point was that Lebron had a tougher road. That's always been the implication when people start making excuses for Lebron being 3-5 in the finals. Lebroniacs always say "Well Kobe had far easier opponents in the finals."

The fact is, Kobe had to go through better teams to even get to the finals. Both players were challenged, Kobe's just came earlier because the West has been the stronger conference for quite about 20 years now.

I will say though, the excuses people want to make for Lebron's failures are pretty hilarious. He's the only superstar I see people actually make excuses for rather than just accept his record for what it is like we do everyone else.

 

[gordontrue]

No, the point was that Lebron had a tougher road. That's always been the implication when people start making excuses for Lebron being 3-5 in the finals. Lebroniacs always say "Well Kobe had far easier opponents in the finals."

The fact is, Kobe had to go through better teams to even get to the finals. Both players were challenged, Kobe's just came earlier because the West has been the stronger conference for quite about 20 years now.

I will say though, the excuses people want to make for Lebron's failures are pretty hilarious. He's the only superstar I see people actually make excuses for rather than just accept his record for what it is like we do everyone else.

The point was never that LeBron had a tougher road. LeBron has had tougher Finals matchups. Obviously teams in the west have faced tougher competition - overall.

The point is that it skews Finals records and is one example (just one of many) of why its a pretty meaningless stat.

Exaggerated hypothetical:

Team A doesn't make the Finals half the time cause they're playing their toughest competition in their conference. When they do manage to break through, they always win the Finals because the best competition is in their conference. Finals Record = perfect.

Team B always makes the Finals because they don't have any competition in their conference. Their toughest competition is in the Finals, which they only manage to win half of the time. Finals Record = bad.

Both teams face really good teams, and both teams manage to beat those really good teams half of the time.

 

[trojanfan12]

The point was never that LeBron had a tougher road. LeBron has had tougher Finals matchups. Obviously teams in the west have faced tougher competition - overall.

The point is that it skews Finals records and is one example (just one of many) of why its a pretty meaningless stat.

I disagree. Having a tougher road is having a tougher road. It just means a player is more likely to be eliminated before the finals.

If facing an easier opponent in the finals skews the finals record. Then having the easier road getting there, skews the number of finals appearances.

It's likely that if Lebron had to face the level of competition that Kobe did to get to the finals, he'd have fewer finals appearances than Kobe does.

 

[gordontrue]

I disagree. Having a tougher road is having a tougher road. It just means a player is more likely to be eliminated before the finals.

Exactly. And in the world of "Finals record is an important stat, being eliminated before the Finals is better than losing in the Finals. (Which is of course absurd).