Michael Jordan considered himself a racist

[Robotech]

On a conscience and subconscious level, it promotes separation.

I think you'd have to be pretty sensitive to feel that way. There are countless other networks targeted to specific groups. Do they all make you feel that way?

 

[Robotech]

The point is to give alternatives, not to promote separation. Outside of tv networks, we have Black History Month, which was never intended to promote separation.

 

[beardown07]

What the "intent" is, bares little relevance. And again, it's not the content, or who they are targeting, as much as it is the name. Spin it however you must, but if it was reversed, we wouldn't be talking about your sensitivity.

 

[Flauge]

It's not racist.

But what if they had a "Miss White America", or a "United White College Fund"?

Would that be racist?

miss black america and the united ***** college fund are racist in the fact they exclude other races. the same way an all white scholarship or all white beauty contest would be. my point wasnt that they werent racist, my point was, why do people care? these things dont hurt people. no white guy has ever been turned down from college because he didnt have the united ***** college fund money. no white/hispanic/asian woman was less pretty because she wasnt miss black america.

i know racism is out there. both for and against every race. i dont care about that and no one should. i care when the racism is actually causing people harm. holding them back. stopping them from achieving goals. BET has only annoyed me and miss black america has only given me a woody. no real harm.

 

[Steelboy84]

miss black america and the united ***** college fund are racist in the fact they exclude other races. the same way an all white scholarship or all white beauty contest would be. my point wasnt that they werent racist, my point was, why do people care? these things dont hurt people. no white guy has ever been turned down from college because he didnt have the united ***** college fund money. no white/hispanic/asian woman was less pretty because she wasnt miss black america.

i know racism is out there. both for and against every race. i dont care about that and no one should. i care when the racism is actually causing people harm. holding them back. stopping them from achieving goals. BET has only annoyed me and miss black america has only given me a woody. no real harm.

In an effort to reflect the growing diversity of people of color in colleges and universities, the United ***** College Fund has rebranded itself as the UNCF, using only the acronym for the organization’s name rather than the full words.* While continuing to support African American students, it now helps fund Native American, Latino, and Asian American underrepresented scholars.

The UNCF has never been racist. That word is used in situations where it does not apply. If you knew the history of the organization, that would never cross your mind. Same with NAACP. You have to consider the period in time these organizations were formed. Same with historically black colleges which by the way are not black colleges by law. I agree with the rest of your post.

Oh, and fuck LBJ. Figured I'd throw that tidbit in there.

 

[Robotech]

What the "intent" is, bares little relevance. And again, it's not the content, or who they are targeting, as much as it is the name. Spin it however you must, but if it was reversed, we wouldn't be talking about your sensitivity.

I would have no problem with something being called White Entertainment Television.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

The UNCF has never been racist. That word is used in situations where it does not apply. If you knew the history of the organization, that would never cross your mind. Same with NAACP. You have to consider the period in time these organizations were formed. Same with historically black colleges which by the way are not black colleges by law. I agree with the rest of your post.

Oh, and fuck LBJ. Figured I'd throw that tidbit in there.

Maybe the next step in progression and racial equality is to eliminate things that benefit people based on race?

Ignoring skin color also includes not giving rewards or support based solely based on skin color.

https://twitter.com/kobebryant/statuses/449695479991783424

 

[beardown07]

I would have no problem with something being called White Entertainment Television.

Good for you.



What's your point?


It's not that difficult...does the name Black Entertainment Television promote separation or unity? Try to remove your predetermined ideals, and just answer it from a psychological standpoint.



There is absolutely no doubt, that on face-value, it promotes segregation. If you don't think that, then you are either in denial or dumb.

 

[Robotech]

Good for you.



What's your point?


It's not that difficult...does the name Black Entertainment Television promote separation or unity? Try to remove your predetermined ideals, and just answer it from a psychological standpoint.



There is absolutely no doubt, that on face-value, it promotes segregation. If you don't think that, then you are either in denial or dumb.

Simply no. It does not promote segregation. Does the channel Women's Entertainment promote segregation? Do the women that watch that channel completely separate themselves from men because of that channel? Just because something acknowledges differences in people doesn't mean it promotes segregation.

 

[Flauge]

The UNCF has never been racist. That word is used in situations where it does not apply. If you knew the history of the organization, that would never cross your mind. Same with NAACP. You have to consider the period in time these organizations were formed. Same with historically black colleges which by the way are not black colleges by law. I agree with the rest of your post.

Oh, and fuck LBJ. Figured I'd throw that tidbit in there.

i know the history of the organizations and i know why they were formed. i am not arguing there wasnt a need for them back then, nor am i arguing there isnt a need for them today. but when you say we are raising money for scholarships and one of the requirements to get this scholarship is the color of your skin, then it is racist. it excludes others based only on race. that is the definitions of racism.

my point is, i dont care. people should be able to give scholarships for any reason they choose. giving a student money to pay for college doesnt hurt anyone, and no one should care. but people do.. i cant help that.

 

[beardown07]

Simply no. It does not promote segregation. Does the channel Women's Entertainment promote segregation? Do the women that watch that channel completely separate themselves from men because of that channel? Just because something acknowledges differences in people doesn't mean it promotes segregation.

What does channels aimed at different sexes have to do with racism?


From a psychological and subconscious standpoint, separation is exactly what it promotes. So even if you consciously CHOOSE to ignore it, it still has an impact at a subconscious level.

 

[Steelboy84]

i know the history of the organizations and i know why they were formed. i am not arguing there wasnt a need for them back then, nor am i arguing there isnt a need for them today. but when you say we are raising money for scholarships and one of the requirements to get this scholarship is the color of your skin, then it is racist. it excludes others based only on race. that is the definitions of racism.

my point is, i dont care. people should be able to give scholarships for any reason they choose. giving a student money to pay for college doesnt hurt anyone, and no one should care. but people do.. i cant help that.

You seem to care a lot more than you're suggesting. Since you missed it the first time, let me try again.

In an effort to reflect the growing diversity of people of color in colleges and universities, the United ***** College Fund has rebranded itself as the UNCF, using only the acronym for the organization’s name rather than the full words.* While continuing to support African American students, it now helps fund Native American, Latino, and Asian American underrepresented scholars.

And your argument is a bit contradictory, but ok.

i am not arguing there wasnt a need for them back then, nor am i arguing there isnt a need for them today. but when you say we are raising money for scholarships and one of the requirements to get this scholarship is the color of your skin, then it is racist

Er, ok. Yea.

 

[Steelboy84]

And who cares about BET? Havent been relevant since the early 00s.

 

[Robotech]

What does channels aimed at different sexes have to do with racism?


From a psychological and subconscious standpoint, separation is exactly what it promotes. So even if you consciously CHOOSE to ignore it, it still has an impact at a subconscious level.

So is that how the brain works? Only if it relates to race will something named after a particular group of people promote separation/segregation? There are other examples, too, like Shalom TV, The Filipino Network, etc. I just don't see how these things promote segregation. Or do these not count in your mind because they relate to ethnic groups rather than race?

I agree that any name denotes a difference. Obviously, right? Different things have different names. People seeing the name Black Entertainment Television will understand that there is a distinct group of people called black people. But you are talking about something much more than recognizing difference. You are saying that a name by itself promotes separation/segregation. I think that's a huge leap in logic. To me recognizing difference ≠ segregation. I think that would only be the case if someone has been conditioned to react that way. I would like to think that something like Black History Month does not promote segregation, but I suppose it does in the mind of some people. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[podsox]

who didn't have dumbass thoughts as a kid growing up

 

[cwalke3408]

As mentioned. its not the content, so much as the name.^^^

If you know the content is not racist then why are you so sensitive to the name? You just making it too complicated, BET is just acknowleging that its target group is black people since 98% of the content on tv is white. Since majority of the content is already white then the a channel name WET would be to broad. That's why you see channels with more specifed names like sci-fi, HGTV, or Food Network is to say if your looking this kind of content come here since finding shows like this else where is difficult.

 

[trojanfan12]

i know the history of the organizations and i know why they were formed. i am not arguing there wasnt a need for them back then, nor am i arguing there isnt a need for them today. but when you say we are raising money for scholarships and one of the requirements to get this scholarship is the color of your skin, then it is racist. it excludes others based only on race. that is the definitions of racism.

my point is, i dont care. people should be able to give scholarships for any reason they choose. giving a student money to pay for college doesnt hurt anyone, and no one should care. but people do.. i cant help that.

My only questions re: the UNCF would be: If they are expanding those who qualify to other races, why not just change it to a charity that is need based rather than race based?

 

[BOTSLAYER]

So is that how the brain works? Only if it relates to race will something named after a particular group of people promote separation/segregation? There are other examples, too, like Shalom TV, The Filipino Network, etc. I just don't see how these things promote segregation. Or do these not count in your mind because they relate to ethnic groups rather than race?

I agree that any name denotes a difference. Obviously, right? Different things have different names. People seeing the name Black Entertainment Television will understand that there is a distinct group of people called black people. But you are talking about something much more than recognizing difference. You are saying that a name by itself promotes separation/segregation. I think that's a huge leap in logic. To me recognizing difference ≠ segregation. I think that would only be the case if someone has been conditioned to react that way. I would like to think that something like Black History Month does not promote segregation, but I suppose it does in the mind of some people. We'll have to agree to disagree.

1st paragraph was basically what I was going to say.

I do not think it is a huge leap in logic, I think it is the logical leap in logic. Think of the last time people were labeled. Whites only and Jewish stars should be screaming through your head imo.

Black history month is a black eye imo. It shouldn't exist. The contributions of people regardless of race should be taught equally just as if color didn't exist. If they want to bring attention to the faults of the US so people learn from those mistakes I can see that being a month, a "think on your sins" month or something. Everything from slavery to Hiroshima could be included, and the process of how the country was founded is pretty important. It might even take some pressure off of the current regimes "character flaws".

That being said I do not think that recognizing differences are the same as segregation or even bad. In recognizing these differences we can see how similar we all really are.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Also awesome dialogue, I love how they can not have this discussion in the politcs forum and we can't have a GOAT discussion here

 

[starbigd]

i know the history of the organizations and i know why they were formed. i am not arguing there wasnt a need for them back then, nor am i arguing there isnt a need for them today. but when you say we are raising money for scholarships and one of the requirements to get this scholarship is the color of your skin, then it is racist. it excludes others based only on race. that is the definitions of racism.

my point is, i dont care. people should be able to give scholarships for any reason they choose. giving a student money to pay for college doesnt hurt anyone, and no one should care. but people do.. i cant help that.

First of all, you can set up a scholarship to benefit ANY specific, targetted group. Literally. By definition, a scholarship committee and a school HAVE to discriminate applicants based on some criteria. There are literally THOUSANDS of white only scholarships, but nobody ever complains about them. And I guarantee you nobody black cares. It's a non-issue.

There are literally scholarships for left handed daughters of the Mayflower. Seriously.