McNabb vs Kelly (HOFer)

[RoboticDreams]

I don't think 5 deserves to be in the HOF. That isn't just me as a Cowboy fan. He didn't do anything. He made it to 5 conference championship games. Great. He was 1-4 in them. Not great.

He was just a good QB.

 

[buried_in_snow]

That's why I said usually. The team also plays a big part in that.

IMO, he is borderline. I don't know what we are arguing here. You say he's not a lock but then you keep making comments to the contrary.

lol wut?

For example...?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

It was a different era. McNabb was great for the eagles but he isn't a hall of famer. If he doesn't choke in that Super Bowl maybe a case can be made but as is he didn't do enough.

I'm on the no vote as well, but I think it's a legit debate. Very solid career and aside from the short stint with Owens...everybody else he was throwing to will be paying to go to Canton like the rest of us.

The reason I say no is there are very few positive defining moments in the playoffs for Mc5.

 

[jonvi]

I'm on the no vote as well, but I think it's a legit debate. Very solid career and aside from the short stint with Owens...everybody else he was throwing to will be paying to go to Canton like the rest of us.

The reason I say no is there are very few positive defining moments in the playoffs for Mc5.

There's my point exactly. When comparing Kelly vs McNapp, Kelly had an allstar squad and McNabb had a bunch of left overs. And TO was/is a POS.

I believe what he did at Philly was damn near super human.

 

[Lonewate44]

"shoulda" - always a great argument.

Also Norwood was 6-10 from 40-49 yards that season... and sub-50% from 45+

Pretending a 47 yard FG for Norwood was a gimme is irresponsible, ignorant, or both. Not to mention he missed a 40+ yard FG and an extra point the week before.

And as far as Kelly goes... he and the #1 offense in the NFL, that scored 44 and 51 points in the two playoff games prior, only scored 19 in the SB.

Sounds like they just got beat up by the better team

Which is the same thing you can say about McNabb in his SB appearance

Ok BIS.....
Yes The Bills got beat by the better team against the Giants.....But where was the Kelly Choke job you mentioned in those 4 SB's.....He got beat by the better team each time......Still wondering where his choke came from.....

 

[ATL96Steeler]

There's my point exactly. When comparing Kelly vs McNapp, Kelly had an allstar squad and McNabb had a bunch of left overs. And TO was/is a POS.

I believe what he did at Philly was damn near super human.

Owens was/is a knucklehead, fill in the blank and it probably applies, but he was a helluva WR.

Another thing to look at as well was the NFCE was not that great for a lot of Mc5's early career...I know the NYG won the NFCE a couple of times, & DAL came on later in the decade but from 2000 to '07...it was a 2 team DIV really.

 

[buried_in_snow]

Ok BIS.....
Yes The Bills got beat by the better team against the Giants.....But where was the Kelly Choke job you mentioned in those 4 SB's.....He got beat by the better team each time......Still wondering where his choke came from.....

Well I'm glad you flip flopped from "shoulda won" to "yes they got beat by the better team."

Kelly's 4 Super Bowl totals were: 2 TDs, 7 INTs, with QB ratings of 81, 44, 58 and 67.

Which can be considered "choking" in the big game compared to the rest of his career.

But my point is... if one is going to consider McNabb choking in his SB then you need to examine Kelly's performances in much the same light.

I think a lot of myopic people forget about how well McNabb played in the postseason leading up to the SB and even in the SB itself. All they want to remember is him gassing with 45 seconds left.

Hell, McNabb had just conducted an 80 yard TD drive to bring the Eagles within 3 point just minutes prior... but when they get the ball back on their own 4 yard line with 46 seconds left and they don't tie or win the game... all of a sudden it's a "choke."

Makes zero sense from an objective point of view.

 

[Lonewate44]

Well I'm glad you flip flopped from "shoulda won" to "yes they got beat by the better team."

Kelly's 4 Super Bowl totals were: 2 TDs, 7 INTs, with QB ratings of 81, 44, 58 and 67.

Which can be considered "choking" in the big game compared to the rest of his career.

But my point is... if one is going to consider McNabb choking in his SB then you need to examine Kelly's performances in much the same light.

I think a lot of myopic people forget about how well McNabb played in the postseason leading up to the SB and even in the SB itself. All they want to remember is him gassing with 45 seconds left.

Hell, McNabb had just conducted an 80 yard TD drive to bring the Eagles within 3 point just minutes prior... but when they get the ball back on their own 4 yard line with 46 seconds left and they don't tie or win the game... all of a sudden it's a "choke."

Makes zero sense from an objective point of view.

Well.....as far as should and they got beat by the better team...they did get beat by the better team, but he shoulda won...but anyway.......yes he wasnt good in those games for sure, and I didnt realize how bad his numbers were against my Skins until you pointed that out......Thanks for showing how Badly my Skins team made him play...I knew it, but his numbers in that game were terrible..


As far as McNabb...I dont think he choked that game away...Never said he did.....I think he played great in that game.....and if he puked...he puked.....he still gave his team a chance to win that game at the end of the game and that is all you can ask....to be in it....with a chance...at the end of the game.

 

[Ilovemesomeme]

Please explain the "it was a different era." I'm not exactly sure how that relates to the comparison.

And didn't Kelly choke in 4 SBs with a much more loaded team, both offensively and defensively?

We'll make it easy on you Einstein............Kellys numbers in comparison to his peers were excellent. McNabbs in comparison to his were not.

Capiche?

 

[buried_in_snow]

We'll make it easy on you Einstein............Kellys numbers in comparison to his peers were excellent. McNabbs in comparison to his were not.

Capiche?

So now you're flip flopping back to "numbers only" arguments?

Come on Meat.... even though McNabb's head is the largest on your Mt Rushmore of Obsession & Mindfuck, at least try to be objective.

And McNabb's 37,000+ yards passing is actually atop his peers along with a handful of others.

 

[JDM]

Well I'm glad you flip flopped from "shoulda won" to "yes they got beat by the better team."

Kelly's 4 Super Bowl totals were: 2 TDs, 7 INTs, with QB ratings of 81, 44, 58 and 67.

Which can be considered "choking" in the big game compared to the rest of his career.

But my point is... if one is going to consider McNabb choking in his SB then you need to examine Kelly's performances in much the same light.

I think a lot of myopic people forget about how well McNabb played in the postseason leading up to the SB and even in the SB itself. All they want to remember is him gassing with 45 seconds left.

Hell, McNabb had just conducted an 80 yard TD drive to bring the Eagles within 3 point just minutes prior... but when they get the ball back on their own 4 yard line with 46 seconds left and they don't tie or win the game... all of a sudden it's a "choke."

Makes zero sense from an objective point of view.

He was huddling up with the clock running and losing at the end of a Super Bowl. That single decision would be enough to put 100% of the blame on him. If they drive the length of the field and win, TO is the MVP. McNabb doesn't even sniff it.

 

[buried_in_snow]

He was huddling up with the clock running and losing at the end of a Super Bowl. That single decision would be enough to put 100% of the blame on him. If they drive the length of the field and win, TO is the MVP. McNabb doesn't even sniff it.

He never huddled up with the clock running on the last drive attempt. And the drive before the Eagles went 80 yards in 3:40 to score a TD. It's not as if he took 7 or 8 minutes to do so.

The fact that you expect McNabb to drive into scoring position, from his own 4 yard line with 46 seconds left and no timeouts, just points to how great you must think he is

btw:

If they drive the length of the field and win it with a TD, McNabb would have been hands down the MVP. At that point he'd have over 400 yards passing, 4 TDs and a comp% of over 60.

I find it funny that you say those stats wouldn't even sniff the MVP after you watched Tom Brady be named SB MVP after he threw for 145 yards and 1 TD.

 

[Ilovemesomeme]

So now you're flip flopping back to "numbers only" arguments?

Come on Meat.... even though McNabb's head is the largest on your Mt Rushmore of Obsession & Mindfuck, at least try to be objective.

And McNabb's 37,000+ yards passing is actually atop his peers along with a handful of others.

Numbers only? Did I miss where he won something? Or are we now saying Division titles are in fact, worthy of banners?

 

[JDM]

He never huddled up with the clock running on the last drive attempt. And the drive before the Eagles went 80 yards in 3:40 to score a TD. It's not as if he took 7 or 8 minutes to do so.

The fact that you expect McNabb to drive into scoring position, from his own 4 yard line with 46 seconds left and no timeouts, just points to how great you must think he is

btw:

If they drive the length of the field and win it with a TD, McNabb would have been hands down the MVP. At that point he'd have over 400 yards passing, 4 TDs and a comp% of over 60.

I find it funny that you say those stats wouldn't even sniff the MVP after you watched Tom Brady be named SB MVP after he threw for 145 yards and 1 TD.

Tom Brady never had any individual more deserving to take it from him. T.O. was by far the best player on either side of that field but Brady that day. He carried that team and he did so with screws in his ankle. If the eagles won and he was not awarded MVP America is fucking retarded.

 

[RoboticDreams]

Einstein, just curious as to why a Giants fan is tooting the horn of a known enemy so much? Is there a racial aspect to this or...is he a sure fire HOF'r in your eyes?

 

[Ilovemesomeme]

Einstein, just curious as to why a Giants fan is tooting the horn of a known enemy so much? Is there a racial aspect to this or...is he a sure fire HOF'r in your eyes?

He's black.

 

[JDM]

But if you need another summary of his play down the stretch:

Throws interception with 8 minutes left down ten.

Makes multiple clock management mistakes, especially huddling up with the clock running, while trying to bring the game within three. He does manage to score.

He doesn't have enough time left to drive again because of the time he burned the last drive.


It doesn't matter that he only burned, say, a minute that he shouldn't have. That minute makes all the difference in a close game.

 

[RoboticDreams]

He's black.

Kinda figured. Just wanted to know the variables before I commented further.

 

[Ilovemesomeme]

Kinda figured. Just wanted to know the variables before I commented further.

Yay or Nay?

 

[RoboticDreams]

Yay or Nay?

I'm on the line. He could be the best QB and then the worst QB. I tired of seeing him throw balls directly in the dirt but I also felt when he was on he could make every throw.