McNabb vs Kelly (HOFer)

[buried_in_snow]

TD:INT ratio?

Wins?

Playoff appearances?

Playoff record?

Playoff stats?

There's a lot more to assessing one's career for the HOF than the three statistics you posted.

 

[NinerSickness]

TD:INT ratio?

Wins?

Playoff appearances?

Playoff record?

Playoff stats?

There's a lot more to assessing one's career for the HOF than the three statistics you posted.

I know. I mentioned postseason success, of which McNabb has some. And his TD / INT ration is excellent (that usually coincides with a low YPA & high-percentage passes). I think he's a first-ballot Hall-of-pretty-good-er.

 

[JDM]

His TD-INT ratio is pretty much the only thing he's done that impresses me. He was never legitimately in the running for best in the league.

 

[buried_in_snow]

It's not about what he's gonna do, it's that he isn't worthy of this discussion at the moment. It's not like he's a lock to make the hall of fame.

I'm not saying he's a lock to make the HOF... or even worthy of being inducted.

I'm just curious as to why he's in the discussion years from now, but not at the present moment. Doesn't make sense to me

 

[buried_in_snow]

Not if ESPN, CBS, FOX & NBC have anything to say about it (which they will).

You realize there is a committee that votes on the nominees, right?

Each team's city has one representative from each market's media plus 14 at large votes. Of the 46 voters I think 5 are associated with those four networks you mentioned.

 

[buried_in_snow]

From a huge QB-VS-the-average study I did back in 2009:

Have you ever done a huge WR-vs-the-average study?

If so, how did Tim Brown and Art Monk do?

 

[jonvi]

His TD-INT ratio is pretty much the only thing he's done that impresses me. He was never legitimately in the running for best in the league.

The eagles sucked. McNabb is the reason they made the playoffs. If Kelly had played on that same Eagles team, he wouldn't have lost those four superbowls....he wouldn't have been there just like McNabb.

McNabb made Philly a lot better. That's what HOF players do.

But on a side note, it was great when Kelly threw a pick....he did his best to get in on the tackle.

 

[JDM]

The eagles sucked. McNabb is the reason they made the playoffs. If Kelly had played on that same Eagles team, he wouldn't have lost those four superbowls....he wouldn't have been there just like McNabb.

McNabb made Philly a lot better. That's what HOF players do.

But on a side note, it was great when Kelly threw a pick....he did his best to get in on the tackle.

He deserves recognition from the eagles, and I'm ok with them retiring his jersey. But he didn't win a Super Bowl, he didn't put up impressive numbers, and the opportunity he got he gave away.

 

[NinerSickness]

Have you ever done a huge WR-vs-the-average study?

If so, how did Tim Brown and Art Monk do?

No, but one of these days I'll have to. People tend to agree on who the best WR ever was, and when you list the next 5 or 6 people usually say it's extremely close. QBs, however, bring some of the most adamant, sometime ridiculous arguments that are rarely objective and go all over the board. That's why I did the study. I'd call it an efficiency study.

Same thing with RBs. People tend to have Jim Brown, Walter Payton & Barry Sanders as the top 3 with the order changing from person to person. People argue this point a little more than with WRs because there isn't one who stands out head & shoulders above the rest. But it still doesn't come close to the QB argument.

One strong opinion I've developed by looking at efficiency & post season success is that Kurt Warner is one of the 5 best QBs who ever played, and I think Vick, Elway & McNabb are the 3 most overrated QBs of all time. I also think Steve Young was the star who burned the brightest but not for very long.

Once Peyton Manning & Tom Brady* retire I'll have to update that study. It was pretty tedious.

 

[buried_in_snow]

Okay, then I'll answer...

Tim Brown and Art Monk are two of the best WRs of their respective eras, with Tim Brown being a top 5 WR of all time, arguably.

Yet Monk had to wait two decades to get into the HOF and Brown is still inexplicably snubbed.

The point is... algorithms, studies, comparisons to your peers, etc... don't mean squat really. Because it's a matter of nearly 50 humans voting on the nominees. So if there's a Namath in the hall and a Kelly too, it's not so far fetched to think of McNabb being in there.

Me personally? I don't think he's worthy at all, but then again both Monk and Brown are 1st Ballot HOFers IMO.

 

[RoboticDreams]

The eagles sucked. McNabb is the reason they made the playoffs. If Kelly had played on that same Eagles team, he wouldn't have lost those four superbowls....he wouldn't have been there just like McNabb.

McNabb made Philly a lot better. That's what HOF players do.

But on a side note, it was great when Kelly threw a pick....he did his best to get in on the tackle.

HOF players win Super Bowls not just make an appearance. I wouldn't be shocked if he made it or didn't make it.

 

[buried_in_snow]

HOF players win Super Bowls not just make an appearance. I wouldn't be shocked if he made it or didn't make it.

First of all it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Not the NFL Hall of Fame, so there are plenty of players who are in that didn't win a SB.

Also, there are tons of NFL players who are in the HOF who never won a SB.

 

[NinerSickness]

So if there's a Namath in the hall and a Kelly too, it's not so far fetched to think of McNabb being in there.

I don't think it's far fetched at all. I think he'll get in (undeservedly). But the Namath thing isn't a good example because back then the bar was pretty low for a HOF QB. There were fewer great QBs to whom one might compare him.

 

[RoboticDreams]

First of all it's the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Not the NFL Hall of Fame, so there are plenty of players who are in that didn't win a SB.

Also, there are tons of NFL players who are in the HOF who never won a SB.

I get that but my point was the truly great QBs usually win it if they get there. I guess it was unnecessary to say because no one sees him as a truly great QB but a fringe HOF'r.

 

[buried_in_snow]

I get that but my point was the truly great QBs usually win it if they get there. I guess it was unnecessary to say because no one sees him as a truly great QB but a fringe HOF'r.

Marino
Fouts
Moon
Jurgenson
Tarkenton

 

[NinerSickness]

You realize there is a committee that votes on the nominees, right?

Each team's city has one representative from each market's media plus 14 at large votes. Of the 46 voters I think 5 are associated with those four networks you mentioned.

True, but those are the big names in football media, and they all circle the wagons for the players (and people) they like.

 

[buried_in_snow]

True, but those are the big names in football media, and they all circle the wagons for the players (and people) they like.

I'd imagine a lot of these committee members who work for local papers/media probably aren't persuaded by ESPN and the likes. In fact they might actually have an anti-bias to them. IMO

 

[RoboticDreams]

Marino
Fouts
Moon
Jurgenson
Tarkenton

That's why I said usually. The team also plays a big part in that.

IMO, he is borderline. I don't know what we are arguing here. You say he's not a lock but then you keep making comments to the contrary.

 

[threelittleturds]

Has it already been mentioned that Jim Kelly called his own plays? The hurry up "K-Gun" offense separates him from almost everyone. Guys like Manning, Brady, and Rodgers have done it a little bit; for a quarter or a half once in a while... but Kelly did it every game over an entire season, for a number of years.

Maybe Peyton has called his own plays over the course of a year? But, nobody did it to the extent that Kelly did, which is one of those x-factors that made him a HOF'er despite his unimpressive stats compared to Marino and Elway. Certainly puts him far ahead of McNabb.

 

[fordman84]

I don't think 5 deserves to be in the HOF. That isn't just me as a Cowboy fan. He didn't do anything. He made it to 5 conference championship games. Great. He was 1-4 in them. Not great.

He was just a good QB.