Manning to Part ways tomorrow

[wartyOne]

o come on crabtree can't even hold lloyd's jockstrap

I don't like Crabtree, and I think his draft status was about two rounds too high, considering what he brings to the table, but do you really think he wouldn't post 1200 yards with Manning at QB? He only needed 350 more yards to do that with Smith (and being injured for a couple games). I think he'd probably get those yards.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

There's several pages after this post, so if somebody else addressed this, I apologize. The way I interpret Harbaugh talking into Smith's headset so much is because he has to. Smith isn't a good enough QB to read the defense by himself, and he never has been.

I don't think the same circumstances would be applicable with Manning. Not that I agree or disagree that the offense would have to change with Manning (as Polian said yesterday, "he can run any offense."), but wouldn't that be a good thing?

Total yards we ranked 26th. Passing yards we ranked 29th. Rushing yards we ranked 8th (not bad, but I also don't think that's sustainable, and Gore is getting older). Scoring we ranked 11th (based on Akers setting records for scoring). If we take the FG's out, and I realize I'd need to do this with every other team to get a true reading of offensive ineptitude, we averaged 15.5 pts a game. I have to believe that Manning, even at 50% of his capability would instantly vault us into the top 10 of everything except rushing yards.

Smith, at his best, won't ever sniff the top half of the league in any of those categories. Sure he posted a 90 passer rating this year, but Rodgers posted a 122. QBR's in the 90's don't mean great seasons anymore. He was slightly above average in this regard. Given all of that, I can't see Harbaugh's ego getting in the way here. Manning all but guarantees Super Bowl victories. What coach wouldn't want that?

And so the question remains, why does Harbaugh not want Manning on the team? I believe my explanation makes the most sense.

 

[wartyOne]

Manning hasn't had a defense - other than a great pass rush - for most of his career. He hasn't had a run game since 2001. We've got both.

And you're right, it is always the same guys making the same exaggerated criticisms and same exaggerated praise. Praise of Smith and criticisms of everything else. And just for the record, I have been one of Smith's bigger supporters throughout his career.

Let me ask this: if we had a chance to go out and get Andre Johnson for, say, half again what we pay Crabtree, how many of those defending Smith right now would jump at the chance? And if that's the case, how does that differ from Manning vs. Smith?

Can we get both Manning and Andre Johnson? That would be fun.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

o come on crabtree can't even hold lloyd's jockstrap

Today, maybe not. But I seem to recall a time when Lloyd was slow, struggled to separate, and dropped easy balls.

 

[wartyOne]

And so the question remains, why does Harbaugh not want Manning on the team? I believe my explanation makes the most sense.

I think there's more to it than that, though. Obviously we know Smith's psyche has been delicate, to say the least. If it leaked that we were gunning hard for Manning, and then we didn't get him, we'd be in a bad situation. Smith is still an FA, and he might count that as the final betrayal before going elsewhere (maybe, I admit I don't know what's going on in Smith's head). That only leaves us with question marks at QB.

I would be up for giving control to Kaepernick, but I don't think that comes without consequence. Ultimately it may not matter, because I don't think Smith can replicate 17/5 again, but I wouldn't want to hurt Smith's confidence unless we get Manning locked up.

Maybe I'm overthinking this stuff, but I'd be willing to bet Baalke and Harbaugh are as well.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Come on....some of those defenses were terrific. Didn't Bob Sanders win Defensive POY in their Super Bowl year? Best pass rush in the whole league for a few years straight?

You guys are getting my blood boiling. I've gonna watch some soccer instead.

 

[wartyOne]

Today, maybe not. But I seem to recall a time when Lloyd was slow, struggled to separate, and dropped easy balls.

He was ALWAYS the man at those ridiculous circus catches. That resulted in punts because he didn't get across the first down marker.

I wish he could have put it all together here, but I jumped up and down when we got a 3rd and a 4th out of Washington for him. Honestly, if we had this coaching staff/GM back then, we might have been able to get a 1st and 2nd for him.

 

[Bemular]

That was your argument, chief. You know, when I said Crabtree would easily have 1,200 yards with Manning and you responded:

A few dropped passes, a couple tips for INT's and Crabtree would be lucky to reach 800 yards with Manning at the helm.

800 yards is less than the 874 yards he had this year. Thus YOU apparently think he would post worse numbers with Manning at QB. My response was dripping with sarcasm.

As I said, if we basically have Crabtree and Davis as our receiving options, I think Crabtree would have 1,200 yards, and yes, I think 1,500 is possible. That's largely because of the lack of alternatives, comparable to Lloyd's 1450 yard season. Crabtree isn't that "good," but with little competition for balls and a more aggressive attack, he could get big-time yardage. Obviously if we add more threats that won't happen.

As for the Bradford comment, in the last discussion you and I had on the ESPN board I said that I would consider taking Smith over Bradford if I needed to win one or two games to start the season, though I certainly would not take him if I were building a franchise. You dismissed the idea, claiming Bradford was already much better than Smith. I'd say the season vindicated my position.

Actually this was my argument:

"So, while Manning can hit tight windows Crabtree is rather weak at catching passes in tight windows. A few dropped passes, a couple tips for INT's and Crabtree would be lucky to reach 800 yards with Manning at the helm."

I feel that is a sound argument based on Manning being the QB; and, keeping in mind that Crabtree put up less than 900 yards as our default #1 WR for most of the year. If Morgan & Edwards had remained healthy he very well may have had even less production.

The Bradford discussion is lost on me, my apologies. But again, for the record, I'm taking Bradford over Smith in any situation.

 

[wartyOne]

Come on....some of those defenses were terrific. Didn't Bob Sanders win Defensive POY in their Super Bowl year? Best pass rush in the whole league for a few years straight?

You guys are getting my blood boiling. I've gonna watch some soccer instead.

I don't know if he got POY (he was injured for like five or six weeks at the end of the season), but that defense was completely different with him in there.

I still wouldn't call their defenses terrific. The DE's were awesome, but they struggled mightily at stopping the run, and their CB's were average at best.

As good as those defenses were, I don't think any of them were as good as what we currently have. That was always a knock on the Colts. The offense could score 42 points, and they'd still lose.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Come on....some of those defenses were terrific. Didn't Bob Sanders win Defensive POY in their Super Bowl year? Best pass rush in the whole league for a few years straight?

You guys are getting my blood boiling. I've gonna watch some soccer instead.

They've been very good against the pass at times. They have never been any good at stopping the run (closest was in 2005 when they were 4th in attempts and TDs, but 16th in yards and 28th in YPA). It's not a good D if you have a glaring and easily exploited flaw. It's been a one-dimensional D that is built specifically to hold onto a lead created by their all-world QB.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I don't like Crabtree, and I think his draft status was about two rounds too high, considering what he brings to the table, but do you really think he wouldn't post 1200 yards with Manning at QB? He only needed 350 more yards to do that with Smith (and being injured for a couple games). I think he'd probably get those yards.

i think the point someone else was making regarding this was that crabtree wouldn't get as many balls from manning because of his issues as a reciever. much like brady stopped throwing to moss before the pats dumped him.

 

[wartyOne]

Actually this was my argument:

"So, while Manning can hit tight windows Crabtree is rather weak at catching passes in tight windows. A few dropped passes, a couple tips for INT's and Crabtree would be lucky to reach 800 yards with Manning at the helm."

I feel that is a sound argument based on Manning being the QB; and, keeping in mind that Crabtree put up less than 900 yards as our default #1 WR for most of the year. If Morgan & Edwards had remained healthy he very well may have had even less production.

The Bradford discussion is lost on me, my apologies. But again, for the record, I'm taking Bradford over Smith in any situation.

I don't see Bradford as a steep upgrade over Smith. He's also got a bad injury history at this point.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Actually this was my argument:

"So, while Manning can hit tight windows Crabtree is rather weak at catching passes in tight windows. A few dropped passes, a couple tips for INT's and Crabtree would be lucky to reach 800 yards with Manning at the helm."

I feel that is a sound argument based on Manning being the QB; and, keeping in mind that Crabtree put up less than 900 yards as our default #1 WR for most of the year. If Morgan & Edwards had remained healthy he very well may have had even less production.

The Bradford discussion is lost on me, my apologies. But again, for the record, I'm taking Bradford over Smith in any situation.

Right. So you believe Crabtree would put up worse numbers with Manning than he did with Smith. I won't tell you what to believe, but I think you're out of your mind.

 

[wartyOne]

i think the point someone else was making regarding this was that crabtree wouldn't get as many balls from manning because of his issues as a reciever. much like brady stopped throwing to moss before the pats dumped him.

So, who are the other 1400 yards going to then (and potentially more since Crabtree is going to get fewer balls thrown his way)?

 

[wartyOne]

Totally off topic:

It is windy as hell in Albuquerque today.

Proceed.

 

[Flyingiguana]

So, who are the other 1400 yards going to then (and potentially more since Crabtree is going to get fewer balls thrown his way)?

vernon would most likely break every tight end record in the book, twice

 

[wartyOne]

vernon would most likely break every tight end record in the book, twice

I don't think Davis is catching for 2200 yards in that scenario.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i think the point someone else was making regarding this was that crabtree wouldn't get as many balls from manning because of his issues as a reciever. much like brady stopped throwing to moss before the pats dumped him.

And that might be reasonable if we had other players to go with. This year we didn't. Morgan was looking good, but got injured. Edwards was shaky all year, far worse even than Crabtree. Williams had his moments - both good and bad. There was no one else. Maybe Walker would have gotten more burn, but those balls had to go somewhere.

 

[Bemular]

Right. So you believe Crabtree would put up worse numbers with Manning than he did with Smith. I won't tell you what to believe, but I think you're out of your mind.

Based on the context provided - absolutely!

I won't tell you what to believe either; but, if you disagree and believe, despite the context I provided, that Crabtree would still put up "1200+ yards easy", then I don't think it is me running around this board with a brain tumor.

 

[bigpb72]

Length of deal holding up Alex Smith contract | ProFootballTalk