Lions secondary 4th best

[tpaulus_2]

Browns seem to have better up and coming rookies though. That injured guy from Oregon in the 7th could be the real deal. I remember how bad Slay looked his first year too, if Gilbert makes a similar jump like Slays I do not think it is really a debate, the Browns win hands down.

Agreed. Browns are in good shape to have a very good secondary for several years if these young guys pan out. Lots of young talent on the surface, mixed with good veteran starters to help them develop.

 

[Mebert]

I believe the beloved PFT had Hayden and Slay ranked neck and neck at the end of last year. For what it's worth, if anything.

I wonder if I under value Slay sometimes due to how bad he looked as a rookie. I hear nothing but good things about him now. I hope he can take another leap like last year and become one of the elite. I remember wanting Banks in the first and being mad taht they took the second option from the same school a ahead of him. I was not a fan of the Slay pick. I like being wrong there

 

[tpaulus_2]

Why are you getting so upset? Same article you're talking up says Browns and Vikes are better. What's the problem? Save your paranoid schizophrenia talk for some other time, bro.

Who said I'm upset? You're an unstable little fella, aren't ya?

 

[broncosmitty]

Some people simply have the patience to understand that they can't predict the future and actually have to wait and see what happens...

are you still waiting for Mike Thomas to pan out for us as that hybrid running back?

I didn't wait five minutes.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I am determined to make this a discussion about Browns vs Lions secondary......I thought it was an interesting discussion point.

Very comparable secondaries. I'd love to replace a few of our veteran back-ups with the Browns' younger guys- I think they definitely have us in "future-depth" and overall potential.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh is the no.1 rush DT in the NFL and you dismiss this like it means nothing.

It is one player. Miami was #16th in the power rankings YOU posted to trash the Lions, prior to signing Suh, signing Jordan Cameron and Greg Jennings,and signing Brice McCain from the Steelers to take over at Nickel. Traded for Kenny Stills and drafted DeVante Parker and Jordan Phillips.

So with all of those new signings, trades and draft picks -- Miami went from 16th overall to 14th overall.

As much as I loved Suh. He doesn't play a premiere position on the DL. DT's can be replaced. Detroit will definitely have to get more creative with their blitz packages and won't rush 4 as much as they did, but Ngata is going to face the exact same double teams that Suh faced and he is better against the run (that is why I offered the bet on who would have a better rush defense between the Lions and Dolphins).

Once the initial shock of seeing Suh walk wears off -- every Lions fan will be ecstatic we didn't give that absurd contract. If he was locking down half the field like a Richard Sherman. I'd have been all for it. If he were getting 20+ sacks like Houston on KC -- I'd be pissed we let him walk. If he were super human and putting up video game numbers like JJ Watt -- I would have started a gofundme page to help pay his contract.

Fact is -- Suh, while he is a great DT, plays a position where you can be replaced. Ngata won't get the QB pressures or possibly the sacks Suh did, but he will be every bit as good against the run and give the LB's behind him the same freedoms Suh did.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Also -- I have to make a comment about the Rainbow Club post -- not sure even if was even in this thread or not.

I am pretty sure I am the only person on the board who has been accused of being in the Rainbow Club AND the Realist club. I'm pretty proud of that.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Also -- I have to make a comment about the Rainbow Club post -- not sure even if was even in this thread or not.

I am pretty sure I am the only person on the board who has been accused of being in the Rainbow Club AND the Realist club. I'm pretty proud of that.

#LoftyGoals

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Sarcasm won't help when our run defense sucks without Suh.

While Detroit faces basically every top back in the NFL, including AP, Lacey and Forte (twice each) -- I'd still be willing to wager they finish with a top 10 rush defense.

Ngata over the same 2010-2014 time period finished with almost 30 tackles more than Suh. Suh had 15 more sacks.

Rush defense isn't what I'm worried about. Fairley ranked above Suh last year on rush defense for DT's before he was hurt. Suh is good against the run -- what separates him from all the other DT's is his pass rushing skills. Let me rephrase -- what separates Suh from other 4-3 DT's, since 3-4 DE/DT don't seem to count.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

#LoftyGoals

I'm a Lions fan -- The little victories are all we have to look forward too.

 

[broncosmitty]

While Detroit faces basically every top back in the NFL, including AP, Lacey and Forte (twice each) -- I'd still be willing to wager they finish with a top 10 rush defense.

Ngata over the same 2010-2014 time period finished with almost 30 tackles more than Suh. Suh had 15 more sacks.

Rush defense isn't what I'm worried about. Fairley ranked above Suh last year on rush defense for DT's before he was hurt. Suh is good against the run -- what separates him from all the other DT's is his pass rushing skills. Let me rephrase -- what separates Suh from other 4-3 DT's, since 3-4 DE/DT don't seem to count.

So Yer sayin' we are going to plummet without Seisay?

 

[RobBase]

I wonder if I under value Slay sometimes due to how bad he looked as a rookie. I hear nothing but good things about him now. I hope he can take another leap like last year and become one of the elite. I remember wanting Banks in the first and being mad taht they took the second option from the same school a ahead of him. I was not a fan of the Slay pick. I like being wrong there

I'm warming up to him too, but like everyone else on that D, let's see what they look like without the no.1 pass rushing DT in football, and the no.2 DT against the run.

I'll bet the Miami corners look pretty good this year too.

 

[RobBase]

While Detroit faces basically every top back in the NFL, including AP, Lacey and Forte (twice each) -- I'd still be willing to wager they finish with a top 10 rush defense.

Ngata over the same 2010-2014 time period finished with almost 30 tackles more than Suh. Suh had 15 more sacks.

Rush defense isn't what I'm worried about. Fairley ranked above Suh last year on rush defense for DT's before he was hurt. Suh is good against the run -- what separates him from all the other DT's is his pass rushing skills. Let me rephrase -- what separates Suh from other 4-3 DT's, since 3-4 DE/DT don't seem to count.

Suh was the 2nd ranked DT vs the run last year. No.1 vs the pass. Leads all DTs in every major category the last 5 years. You just don't replace a force like that.

 

[RobBase]

Ngata over the same 2010-2014 time period finished with almost 30 tackles more than Suh. Suh had 15 more sacks.

Apples to oranges. Suh played nearly 85% of all defensive snaps last year, while Ngata played in the high 65% range (down from 73% in 2014). Current day Ngata isn't even on the same planet as Suh.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So Yer sayin' we are going to plummet without Seisay?

It is obvious Seisay was the glue that held our defense together. Without him -- we are f'ed.

 

[Stomp]

Apples to oranges. Suh played nearly 85% of all defensive snaps last year, while Ngata played in the high 65% range (down from 73% in 2014). Current day Ngata isn't even on the same planet as Suh.

Agree 100% Suh played 852/1040 defensive snaps Ngata played 529/1080 snaps he missed 4 games, but even if he played his snap count wound have been around 680. Suh has amazing conditioning Ngata on the other hand is a has-been forced to take PED's to stay in the league

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Suh was the 2nd ranked DT vs the run last year. No.1 vs the pass. Leads all DTs in every major category the last 5 years. You just don't replace a force like that.

I tried to wager you that Detroit would finish with a better rush defense than Miami and you wouldn't make the bet -- Even though Miami now has the #2 DT vs the run, while Detroit does not.

IMO, a DT is the easiest spot on the defense to replace. His pass rush will be missed, but I think Detroit will still be a top 10 rush defense.

You can continue to stir the pot now. It is entertaining.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Agree 100% Suh played 852/1040 defensive snaps Ngata played 529/1080 snaps he missed 4 games, but even if he played his snap count wound have been around 680. Suh has amazing conditioning Ngata on the other hand is a has-been forced to take PED's to stay in the league

He took adderall. If that is a PED -- half my college dorm was on PED's.

And if the snap count is correct. I like Ngata even more. The "has-been" has the same amount of tackles as Suh in 7 less games over the past 3 years. and if what you guys say is correct -- roughly 600 less snaps, all for 10 million less per season.

 

[Thruthefog]

He took adderall. If that is a PED -- half my college dorm was on PED's.

And if the snap count is correct. I like Ngata even more. The "has-been" has the same amount of tackles as Suh in 7 less games over the past 3 years. and if what you guys say is correct -- roughly 600 less snaps, all for 10 million less per season.

You're really gonna like him on 3rd and short.

 

[broncosmitty]

It is obvious Seisay was the glue that held our defense together. Without him -- we are f'ed.

I'd been afraid to say it out loud.